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- Opening a reading plan from the new home page closes the current layout and opens a new Faithlife defined layout
- Opening the Library from the Icon in the Toolbar no longer switches to an open Library view if you have one.
- Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.
- Also, after downloading updates, L7 used to tell me what was added / updated. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that anymore. I would like to know what was updated.
- The look and feel / user interface is also a bit different. Some like it, some don't.
- It's much easier for a beginner to find specific titles in their library.
- It's much easier to added shared documents to Logos.
- It's much easier for a beginner to study the Bible where they don't know were to start (thanks to Workflows).
- It's much easier to use individual guide sections (you no longer need to create custom guides)
- It's somewhat easier to do some moderately complex searches (thanks to search templates)
I have not seen a definitive list yet I'm hoping someone at Faithlife will publish one soon.
Notes has been mentioned.
The new home page is a radical redesign and is incomplete. The knock on here is that some of the items that you may be used to finding there have moved or are not available in the form you may be expecting.
There have been some changes in behaviour that might catch you out depending on the way that you use Logos.
From a general UI perspective things have been moved around, the new structure seems reasonably logical but seems to require more scrolling. Program Settings for example took me a while to find.
Help is in serious need of the promised update being delivered.
Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.
There are other quirks that I keep finding some of which are irritating because I need to change how I do things others are more annoying and I'm hoping that in these cases we'll be given some configuration options to adjust the behaviour.
I have not seen a commitment from Faithlife but a lot of posts here promise that the issues that have been accepted as needing an update will be fixed in 8.1. It's quite possible that the beta testers have these fixes already so know what is in 8.1.
Feedback from Verbum/Liturgical users seems to indicate that if that is your background a lot more is missing.
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both
I agree because one could click on the example and then use it as a pseudo-template. But if they get the new templates built quickly . . .
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.
Also, after downloading updates, L7 used to tell me what was added / updated. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that anymore. I would like to know what was updated.
You can see this now in the Library view, Open the Sidebar (three line icon just below the library Icon top left) then there are some filters last one being added.
Personally I see this as an example of the type of UI change that needs to be included in a quick guide document for Logos 7 users, the sidebar is a great feature but I would not describe the access or content as intuitive.
Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.
For my own personal study I prefer Bible A. One congregation I attend prefers that reading and teaching be done from Bible B. Another congregation I visit prefers that Bible C is used. When I go to a nursing home, they prefer Bible D. It isn't a matter of just using the arrow keys to toggle which Bible I have open. I need to actually change my prioritized Bible for so I see the text of whatever Bible I am working with when using Power Lookup or moving my mouse over a Bible reference to make the text appear.
My quick glance of 8 shows that nothing has improved or made simpler. They added even more complexity imho. Sigh.
My quick glance of 8 shows that nothing has improved or made simpler. They added even more complexity imho. Sigh.
As someone who's been using Logos 8 for a long time now (back to the Alpha), you couldn't be more wrong.
It's certainly true that some things that are different, and it's even true that one or two simple tasks are now slightly harder to perform. But very, very many things are simpler:
There's probably other things as well. But #3 is huge.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
It's certainly true that some things that are different,
Just a side note, Mark, but one of the worst things you can do if you sell very complex software is to make things "different," especially if the software is a high-dollar investment that folks will hope to spend some hard time learning then use for years.
So "different" is a legitimate issue for many.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
So "different" is a legitimate issue for many.
Whilst I 100% agree that "different" is a legitimate issue…
Just a side note, Mark, but one of the worst things you can do if you sell very complex software is to make things "different," especially if the software is a high-dollar investment that folks will hope to spend some hard time learning then use for years.
…I completely disagree with this.
Every single major developer of software has had to make significant changes to that software over its lifetime to keep it current (think Microsoft's Word's ribbon). If Faithlife hadn't done that, we'd still be using Libronix the Logos Library System on Windows 3.1. (Or you might be. I'd have jumped ship to Accordance, high-dollar investment or not.)
The more I have invested of my money, then the more I'm willing to invest of my time in order to learn better ways of doing things. Sometimes that means using new tools to do the same thing quicker. Sometimes that means using new tools to do the same thing in a different way. And, yes, sometimes that means having to adapt my habits to suit the new tools better.
Voicing disapproval, and appealing to Faithlife for change is perfectly legitimate, especially when a new major version has been released. But, once things have settled down, fighting against the system just isn't worth it. If we still want to be using Logos Bible Software in 2045 (and I'm planning to!), then just as Faithlife have to adapt, so do we.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
…I completely disagree with this.
Every single major developer of software has had to make significant changes to that software over its lifetime to keep it current (think Microsoft's Word's ribbon). If Faithlife hadn't done that, we'd still be using Libronix the Logos Library System on Windows 3.1. (Or you might be. I'd have jumped ship to Accordance, high-dollar investment or not.)
The more I have invested of my money, then the more I'm willing to invest of my time in order to learn better ways of doing things. Sometimes that means using new tools to do the same thing quicker. Sometimes that means using new tools to do the same thing in a different way. And, yes, sometimes that means having to adapt my habits to suit the new tools better.
Voicing disapproval, and appealing to Faithlife for change is perfectly legitimate, especially when a new major version has been released. But, once things have settled down, fighting against the system just isn't worth it. If we still want to be using Logos Bible Software in 2045 (and I'm planning to!), then just as Faithlife have to adapt, so do we.
Mark ...
1. Logos isn't adding machine software. Or typewriter software. Or send pictures to your mom software. The users (in theory) are concerned with sharing the hope of salvation with as many people as possible. Not spending hours on interesting changes and poorly planned interfaces.
2. Logos isn't a baby. And the developers aren't gods. They make mistakes, rush things, force things. And need to fix things.
3. When we buy a Cadallac, we don't think, well learning this thing (again) is part of the price. When we check into a nice hotel, we don't expect hard to use but well worth it! Logos asks for premium prices (or packages of books you don't need) ... the product should be easy to use.
4. It wasn't weeks ago, users were piling on, saying searches! Just fix the internals! Is that what they got? Of course not. Need another update. Or another. Or another.
5. I'll wait.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
3. When we buy a Cadallac, we don't think, well learning this thing (again) is part of the price. When we check into a nice hotel, we don't expect hard to use but well worth it! Logos asks for premium prices (or packages of books you don't need) ... the product should be easy to use.
If I bought a Ferrari, you can bet your life I'd take some extra driving lessons that I hadn't needed when I was driving a Toyota Camry. And if Ferrari bought out a new model, with a fancy new gearbox and electronic wizardry, you can be pretty sure I'd be paying careful attention to the dealer when he explained how to get the most out of the new system. And I certainly wouldn't try and drive it the same as the Camry, or even the old Ferrari…
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
3. When we buy a Cadallac, we don't think, well learning this thing (again) is part of the price. When we check into a nice hotel, we don't expect hard to use but well worth it! Logos asks for premium prices (or packages of books you don't need) ... the product should be easy to use.If I bought a Ferrari, you can bet your life I'd take some extra driving lessons that I hadn't needed when I was driving a Toyota Camry. And if Ferrari bought out a new model, with a fancy new gearbox and electronic wizardry, you can be pretty sure I'd be paying careful attention to the dealer when he explained how to get the most out of the new system. And I certainly wouldn't try and drive it the same as the Camry, or even the old Ferrari…
This is an excellent illustration.
To return to software, most people only use a small portion of what they purchase. I use Word and Excel almost every day and still don't know how to use half of its features.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
3. When we buy a Cadallac, we don't think, well learning this thing (again) is part of the price. When we check into a nice hotel, we don't expect hard to use but well worth it! Logos asks for premium prices (or packages of books you don't need) ... the product should be easy to use.If I bought a Ferrari, you can bet your life I'd take some extra driving lessons that I hadn't needed when I was driving a Toyota Camry. And if Ferrari bought out a new model, with a fancy new gearbox and electronic wizardry, you can be pretty sure I'd be paying careful attention to the dealer when he explained how to get the most out of the new system. And I certainly wouldn't try and drive it the same as the Camry, or even the old Ferrari…
This is an excellent illustration.
To return to software, most people only use a small portion of what they purchase. I use Word and Excel almost every day and still don't know how to use half of its features.
Ok, I'll bite! Folks in our burg sadly admire the local Ferraris and Masseratis, knowing a tow truck will be needed on their inevitable journey down to Phoenix. Maybe a great time for their owners to carefully watch their user videos, they spent so much money on.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.1. Let's keep praying about this.
2. My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible. A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.
You can easily achieve this with prioritization and keystrokes. The left and right arrow keys quickly toggle through your prioritized translations thus eliminating the need to change the preferred Bible (which would take more time).
Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.
There never really was such a concept as "Preferred Bible". The home page tool (which is not on the Logos 8 home page) was a helper that just presented a Bible picker then modified your prioritisation list behind-the-scenes. (Your second sentence is exactly right.)
We understand that using the "Preferred Bible" home page tool was a lot easier than learning all the ins and outs of prioritisation, but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.
but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.
While I agree with you, I suspect that Faithlife may be greatly underestimating the number of people who switch Bibles frequently ... or will once you get just a tad more lectionary support. Most faith formation directors I know carry a 4 or 8 translation Bible - and switch between the Bible used for liturgy and their personal favorite Bible for study on a regular basis.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
While I agree that it was a nice "feature", if a user learns the prioritization feature they can easily prioritize their - say - 5 favorite translations and access them on the file while in the software. I don't think this ability has changed, has it? ( I have only spent a few hours in Logos 8 since I downloaded it and let it index 
).
In Christ,
Ken
Lenovo Yoga 7 15ITL5 Touch Screen; 11th Gen Intel i7 2.8Ghz; 12Gb RAM; 500Gb SDD;WIN 11
but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.While I agree with you, I suspect that Faithlife may be greatly underestimating the number of people who switch Bibles frequently ... or will once you get just a tad more lectionary support. Most faith formation directors I know carry a 4 or 8 translation Bible - and switch between the Bible used for liturgy and their personal favorite Bible for study on a regular basis.
I switch which translation(s) I'm reading frequently, but I don't change their prioritization very often.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
The home page tool (which is not on the Logos 8 home page) was a helper that just presented a Bible picker then modified your prioritisation list behind-the-scenes.
Bradley, not only would I like to see it brought back, but I wish it would be expanded to other areas. For example, I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible and have Logos modify the prioritization list behind the scenes. Maybe in Logos 8.5?
I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible and have Logos modify the prioritization list behind the scenes. Maybe in Logos 8.5?
[Y][Y][Y]
I keep meaning to do this but have never taken the time... perhaps the tool could even suggest a scheme based on bestcommentaries.com though I wouldn't agree with all their choices it might be a good start?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible
I did this years ago by modifying Series settings. It took some time, but I can now have my top 4 commentaries on each book in a panel, and it follows (correctly) when I switch from book-to-book in the bible.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
We understand that using the "Preferred Bible" home page tool was a lot easier than learning all the ins and outs of prioritisation, but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool
Bradley FL has missed the point. You say you have made changes in Logos 8 to make it easier for new users and they you removed one of the features that actually made it easier for new users. You should have used this idea and created a prioritization tool that allowed a user to select a data type and then the top 5 resources they wanted to prioritize. Not unlike we used to be able to do with Libronix but only much more user friendly. It could have even been created as a workflow type document for a new user setting up their system. And as MJ pointed about there are many users of Logos software that use it in a variety of ways and some would use this to change their preferred Bible at times other than initial setup. FL has missed a real opportunity here while complicating things by removing other features form the home page that also allow a user quick access like the Recently updated resources, release notes and link to user account to name three things.
Help is in serious need of the promised update being delivered.
Looking forward to Help resource update. Thankful for new Help Center having many Logos 8 videos and articles (Training and Support) so Logos wiki now includes many links => https://wiki.logos.com/
Keep Smiling [:)]
I'm just using L8 for the first time tonight, and the first thing I miss is the quick link on the home page that used to list the resources that have been recently downloaded/updated. Is it now located somewhere else, or do I now need to go into the "library" view and manually sort by updated date in order to access that information?
do I now need to go into the "library" view and manually sort by updated date in order to access that information?
You need to go to the library, open the facet panel on the left if it is not open, and select the Added facet for the number of days you are interested in.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
do I now need to go into the "library" view and manually sort by updated date in order to access that information?You need to go to the library, open the facet panel on the left if it is not open, and select the Added facet for the number of days you are interested in.
Thank you, MJ, I was afraid of that. I liked the visual cue and the quick access from the home page link, but losing that feature is not a crisis. Thank you for mentioning the facet panel too. Those filters are helpful.
I'm a heavy user of the Passage Guide. Using the guide menu only opens up a blank passage guide that, when a passage is entered, all categories are expanded. In 7 and prior the guide menu would open up pre-populated according to the active passage window AND with categories expanded and collapsed according to the last use. I prefer all categories collapsed, and I expand them as needed. It's much cleaner looking and works faster. Now, to open up a passage guide that is 1)populated with the information from you active passage and 2)with categories collapsed and expanded the way it was last closed one needs to open it from within a passage (drag over passage and open a context menu, select the passage context, and select passage guide). It's quite a bit more clunky.
The notes feature is missing quite a bit. If you are a heavy notes user, as I am, this can be quite unsettling at first. However:
Logos Notes