Most Important Logos 8 Bugs and Improvements for Academic/Seminary Users
Comments
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Adam Olean said:
- Hebrew Audio Bible.
- (Restored) Koine Greek Pronunciation Audio Bible (and Church Fathers, "LXX", Josephus's Jewish Wars, etc.). A couple scholars who are capable of this would be Randall Buth and Benjamin Kantor from the Biblical Language Center. Benjamin Kantor is producing Koine Greek audio and video resources at an impressive rate on KoineGreek.com.
[Y]
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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One thing that has always irritated me when using Logos is that in most programs when I double click a word that word becomes selected, but in Logos it brings up a dictionary entry, even for English words. I rarely want to see the definition of an English word, but double clicking on a word is part of my habituaI process when Icopy and paste, which I do from Logos frequently.
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The ability to have multiple sets of resource linking in the mobile version would be helpful.
Integrated citation manager (like an import of Zotero) so that all non-logos sources could be stored in a database and annotated by the user from within the program (basically a souped up version of Nota Bene).
The ability for users to create custom citation schemes or to override citation output on specific resources.
The ability to track annotations of non Logos PDFs and ePubs (not importing material, but allowing for ebook management and annotations similar to Calibre).
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Adam Olean said:
- Reduce excessive/disproportionate Hebrew-Aramaic font sizes in resources. This formatting issue is particularly bad in some resources. I'm not sure that BHQ is the worst offender and I realize that it will vary depending on one's setup (e.g., monitor, display settings, and fonts), but the default setting is HUGE compared to LHB, for instance. With my current setup, I currently have BHQ set to the smallest font setting and leave LHB at the default (or third setting/notch). (BHQ has other significant formatting and editorial issues, as I mentioned previously.)
- Finer font-size gradients (desktop, mobile, and web). Because individual users, user setups, and resource-layouts are not identical, it's necessary to offer users the tools for achieving the most comfortable and readable settings. A large and rich digital library like Logos should, and usually does, offer some of the best font and page display settings. When it comes to font sizes, however, I currently find that some of the most basic, free programs allow me to select readily from a much wider and fuller range of font sizes and to find the best one with ease.
Font sizes of Greek and Hebrew resources is definitely something that could be improved upon. I would suggest the following two changes along the lines of what Adam mentioned:
1. Unify the size of Hebrew and Greek fonts across resources, especially Bibles. As mentioned, some are much larger than others for no apparent reason.
2. In the settings, allow us to adjust the default size (or scaling) for each font. I would like to be able set my Hebrew and Greek font to 120% size by default, while my English font stays at 100%, for example.
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Line-spacing in mixed Hebrew/English is very distracting.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I would like to see different layouts as tabs at the top of the work space. It would be very helpful to be able to change layouts like clicking on tabs in a web browser. For example in a browser one can go to different pages by clicking on tabs, in Logos it would be helpful while studying to have tabs that changed to different layout.
not sure if this was super relavent to the thread? But hope it will be considered!
Thank you,
JD
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JD Wilhite said:
I would like to see different layouts as tabs at the top of the work space. It would be very helpful to be able to change layouts like clicking on tabs in a web browser.
Welcome to the forums. I suspect that this could be very helpful for some professors using Logos in the classroom.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Barnes said:
I was reminded today that one of the biggest improvements I think you could make to reverse interlinear support is to tag all the different versions with sense data, and to add tagging to the Textus Receptus.
I know we've done some work in this area (LN & sense tagging of TR variant units) but I'm not sure of how or when it will be released. I'll check, though.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:
I know we've done some work in this area (LN & sense tagging of TR variant units) but I'm not sure of how or when it will be released. I'll check, though.
That's good news!
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Instead of a footnote saying "Ibid" which makes it very difficult to locate the original source, could they all refer to the full resource? Given the size/type/colour of the preceding footnotes, it can make for a difficult hunt for the first resource note. This is especially true in that using Logos we are skipping between many resources and not reading each one from the beginning.
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I would like to be able to build a bibliography within Logos where I can add resources that are not in Logos. Any bibliography I build in Logos will be incomplete. This would be a nice addition.
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Yes!
Also, several places, Hebrew or Semitic transliteration is problematic, e.g. you'll get an italicized word with most of the letters in italics, but something with a superscript (like š or ś) or subscript (ḥ or ḫ or ḏ) won't be. It's very distracting.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Scott Jacobsen said:
I would like to be able to build a bibliography within Logos where I can add resources that are not in Logos. Any bibliography I build in Logos will be incomplete. This would be a nice addition.
[Y]
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Scott Jacobsen said:
Instead of a footnote saying "Ibid" which makes it very difficult to locate the original source, could they all refer to the full resource? Given the size/type/colour of the preceding footnotes, it can make for a difficult hunt for the first resource note. This is especially true in that using Logos we are skipping between many resources and not reading each one from the beginning.
So true!!!! [Y][Y][Y]
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Scott Jacobsen said:
I would like to be able to build a bibliography within Logos where I can add resources that are not in Logos. Any bibliography I build in Logos will be incomplete. This would be a nice addition.
Agree. Extend Logos to be a full blown reference manager would be great. Being able to "understand" non-Logos resources also has a side-benefit: any citations done in a book will no longer only be tagged only if it exists in Logos, that is if they decided to tag them (please!). It is quite annoying for citation to non-Logos resource at the moment of release not tagged at all.
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Kolen Cheung said:Scott Jacobsen said:
I would like to be able to build a bibliography within Logos where I can add resources that are not in Logos. Any bibliography I build in Logos will be incomplete. This would be a nice addition.
Agree.
I don't. There are softwares that do that already and one can export Logos titles to these to combine with non-Logos titles. The more we had to Logos that can already be done out of it and is not really the province of Bible software, the more it will bloated and even slower than it already is. Plus it takes away budget, development and support time for other things. No reading pdfs, checking email, browsing the web, and brewing a cup of coffee through Logos please!
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But Logos sort of does that already.
But I agree that Logos has too many features that a Bible Software shouldn’t have, like the notes feature that almost is like having a word processor or Evernote like thing. But then its integration with Logos makes it unique. (Verses, searching, etc)
Please no more “disagree” replies though. This thread is about gathering ideas that they might not have thought about. But we should trust them to have intellectual capability to discern what they should provide.
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Kolen Cheung said:
Please no more “disagree” replies though.
Disagreed! I mean no offense here and the point is not to put down anyone. Together we think through proposals and can improve on them. Some ideas can look good at first but really not be while criticism can be overturned with judicious observations. Moreover whether or not something is implemented affects all users, so if someone thinks that an idea would have a negative impact on their experience, they should be able to say so. Disagreement needs not be negative or unconstructive if done in the right spirit and manner. However, I respect your right to disagree with me on this point... [;)]
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I disagree of your disagreement of his disagreement of your disagreement of their suggestion! [:D][:P][;)] ...haha...sorry, I just couldn't resist. JK.
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Andrew Biddinger said:
I disagree of your disagreement of his disagreement of your disagreement of their suggestion!
...haha...sorry, I just couldn't resist. JK.You stole my line! I anticipated that reply and planned to reply something like this!
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I don't agree with half of you half as well as I should like; and I disagree less than with half of you half as well as you deserve. [:D]
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Scott Jacobsen said:
Instead of a footnote saying "Ibid" which makes it very difficult to locate the original source, could they all refer to the full resource?
Could you clarify what exactly you mean?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
Could you clarify what exactly you mean?
Let's say you click on footnote 14, and it says "ibid" ("ibid" means "the same as the previous reference"). You then have to find, and click on, footnote 13, to find out what book it refers to. If you're unlucky, it too will say "ibid.", and you'll then have to go back to footnote 12, or even footnote 11 or earlier…
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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If I'm reading a text, I see a footnote. If the footnote says "Ibid" page 27, I have no idea to what the Ibid refers. I have to find the previous footnote, but it might say "Ibid" as well. So I may have to search for a number of footnotes until one doesn't say "Ibid," but actually gives the resource location.
Footnote markers are small in Logos, and there is the possibility that I might inadvertently skip the correct footnote and move back to another previous footnote that is not the correct resource.
Example:
Footnote 28--Full resource information
Footnote 29--Full resource information
Footnote 30--Ibid, page 23
Footnote 31--Ibid, page 78
Footnote 32--Ibid
Footnote 33--Ibid, page ix.
If I start reading the resource in a paragraph that includes Footnote 33, I must search for footnote 32, then 31, then 30, then 29. These could be paragraphs apart, or even pages apart. So much time is spent scanning the page to find the elusive footnote number. There is also the likely possibility that I will loose track counting backward, and end up at footnote 28 instead of 29.
Ibid works well when one book or article is being read as a complete whole. This is how it should be done for a paper. But the nature of Logos is that you can hyperlink right into the middle of a page or paragraph to the part that interests you. That means it is incumbent on the reader to search for previous footnotes.
My suggesting is that everywhere Ibid occurs, the actual resource in indicated.
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Scott Jacobsen said:
My suggesting is that everywhere Ibid occurs, the actual resource in indicated.
I agree. Ibid is used because of space constraints and such which don't exist in digital resources. FWIW, "Ibid" occurs over 26k times in my library.
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LaTeX support. PBB LaTeX reader, and print with LaTeX output options.
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This is academic but unrelated to original language (so I can foresee someone going to disagree on this [:P])—Math support. I noticed that Math equations in docx are not parsed in the PBB compiler.
This is at best Noet-like territory. From the first day I knew about Logos I envy the academics in this field. How much nicer it would be if the scientific world has something like Logos for us (not saying that it might be economically feasible for it to be a business.)
But it wouldn't be too hard to support Math in PBB (e.g. there exists parsers that can translate that into SVG/PNG, etc.) Also consider some of the classic work in Math are actually in Greek and played an important role in areas such as philosophy, it is not that remote from the Noet business Faithlife might have.
(I agree this is of very low priority if any though.)
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I agree but would label it logic support ... many PDF's don't become PB's easily because of this.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Scott Jacobsen said:
My suggesting is that everywhere Ibid occurs, the actual resource in indicated.
Thank you for clarifying. I would support this suggestion for resources created in the future.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Mark Barnes said:SineNomine said:
Could you clarify what exactly you mean?
Let's say you click on footnote 14, and it says "ibid" ("ibid" means "the same as the previous reference"). You then have to find, and click on, footnote 13, to find out what book it refers to. If you're unlucky, it too will say "ibid.", and you'll then have to go back to footnote 12, or even footnote 11 or earlier…
This is a valid and important point and one that I hope isn't ignored. The 'ibids' were invented in an era of mechanical printing to save time and effort (and thus money) on printing, and were used on a hard copy where looking at a list meant scanning your eyes up the page a bit to find the original citation.
In the electronic publishing world, these abbreviations are not necessary (copy and paste), and when citations are viewed through pop-ups, make things much more complicated than they should be. (However, until the style manuals agree, we probably won't see much change.)
This isn't a lot different from the dropping of the double space after a period. A necessary convention in paper printing became a formatting issue in electronic publishing, and needed to go away. Though I've rarely seen as much anger about something absolutely tiny in my life as asking people to do away with the second space after a period. [:)]
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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I have an alternate view. If the electronic resource is a digitization of a printed work, I'd rather have ibids as printed, whether in the footnotes or the main body. I'd welcome tagging (links and pointers) to help out though.
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Jordan Litchfield said:
Off the top of my head, I seem to remember that neither the morphology charts nor the tagging of the LHB have ever been completely finished. It seems to me that both of these would be a must for academic/seminary users.
Morphology Charts:
- I definitely think fixing/completing morphology charts should be a high priority, since it seems like there are problems with the Hebrew words. Here's an example of an error I found in the morphology charts but I know I've seen others: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/178898.aspx. Here's one someone else posted from 2015 that hasn't been fixed: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/98011.aspx.
- The morphology charts sometimes cut off parts of verses if the verses are indented like quotes or poetry. See this forum post: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/156224.aspx.
- I would also like LXX word forms to be included for Greek words, right now only New Testament word forms are included. (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/177245.aspx, https://community.logos.com/forums/p/113893/754620.aspx#754620)
- Most importantly, I would like to be able to open the morphology chart for a lemma from the context menu. Right now you can get there by first clicking on the Bible Word Study guide from the context menu and then clicking on Morphology Chart within the guide. Why not just put a link directly to the Morphology Chart on the context menu itself?
Word Lists:
On a separate note, I have a small simple request (although I know it's not a bug): Can the Word Lists please include the number of words on the list so that you can quickly know how much lemmas are on each word list? See this forum post for rationale: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/176766.aspx
Reverse Interlinears:
- Academic users would benefit from having reverse interlinears for the following bibles: NJPS (Tanakh 1985), NET, CEB (including apocrypha), REB (including apocrypha), and the NETS (Septuagint).
- BUG: The RSV is missing interlinear information for the following books: Susanna and Bel and the Dragon. See this forum post for more details (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/174718.aspx). Initially I included Song of the Three Youths and 2 Esdras, however Song of the Three Youths seems to be working now, and 2 Esdras never had any interlinear info since the original text is in Latin (according to Isaiah from Faithlife). This problem does not exist for the RSVCE or RSV2CE.
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This is more of a... cherry on top than anything, but I would love some finer control over fonts and panel backgrounds. For example, I would love to be able to set all my tabs/panes with scriptural text against a papyrus background (instantly know which tab has Bible text in it), and an archaic Hebrew font without pointing.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Everyone that has been mentioning visual advanced search is speaking my main concern. A nice side panel search with all the advance search codes organized in a logical manner. This could even allow for refining searches.
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Kiyah said:
- BUG: The RSV is missing interlinear information for the following books: Susanna and Bel and the Dragon. See this forum post for more details (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/174718.aspx). Initially I included Song of the Three Youths and 2 Esdras, however Song of the Three Youths seems to be working now, and 2 Esdras never had any interlinear info since the original text is in Latin (according to Isaiah from Faithlife). This problem does not exist for the RSVCE or RSV2CE.
Kiyah:
We're sorry that you are still experiencing this issue. What's the version of the RSV and reverse interlinears you are working from? They should be stamped with 2018-11-06. We'll do our best to get this resolved.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention again!
Isaiah
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Isaiah said:
Kiyah:
We're sorry that you are still experiencing this issue. What's the version of the RSV and reverse interlinears you are working from? They should be stamped with 2018-11-06. We'll do our best to get this resolved.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention again!
Isaiah
My RSV is indeed the 2018-11-06 version, as are the interlinears. I always let Logos update everything automatically, so I have the latest stable version of Logos as well (SR-3, 8.3.0.0034).
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Isaiah said:
Kiyah:
We're sorry that you are still experiencing this issue. What's the version of the RSV and reverse interlinears you are working from? They should be stamped with 2018-11-06. We'll do our best to get this resolved.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention again!
Isaiah
Isaiah,
I was playing around with the interlinear similar to what you had me try in my original forum thread and it crashed a couple of times so I'm attaching the log files. It crashed twice before I did the log file so I had to try to make it crash a third time to be able to create the file.
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Kiyah:
I wasn't able to determine anything with your log files, but I believe I've gotten to the root of the problem (at long last). Thank you for your patience waiting for this to get properly fixed.A new version of the RSV with reverse interlinears is scheduled to ship this coming Monday.
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I could certainly live with this--if a hyperlink to the referent to the Ibid was made available so jut by hovering over it I could see it, or go to it if available in Logos.
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Isaiah said:
Kiyah:
I wasn't able to determine anything with your log files, but I believe I've gotten to the root of the problem (at long last). Thank you for your patience waiting for this to get properly fixed.A new version of the RSV with reverse interlinears is scheduled to ship this coming Monday.
Yay! Thanks Isaiah!
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Another thing with Search Improvements is the ability to match/ignore diacritics, vowel points, etc. For instance, there is currently absolutely no way to distinguish between "mode" and "mōðe".
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Reuben Helmuth said:
For instance, there is currently absolutely no way to distinguish between "mode" and "mōðe".
You can already distinguish between languages: danish:mōðe
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
You can already distinguish between languages: danish:mōðe
But mōðe is not Danish. It's a typo/OCR error of mōše (the SBL Academic transliteration of the Hebrew מֹשֶׁה = Moses). It occurs twice here: https://ref.ly/logosres/txtlcrtcsmvrvwl?ref=lms.LMS+I+2.1.2.c&off=1337
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Kiyah said:
BUG: The RSV is missing interlinear information for the following books: Susanna and Bel and the Dragon. See this forum post for more details (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/174718.aspx). Initially I included Song of the Three Youths and 2 Esdras, however Song of the Three Youths seems to be working now, and 2 Esdras never had any interlinear info since the original text is in Latin (according to Isaiah from Faithlife). This problem does not exist for the RSVCE or RSV2CE.
An update to the RSV should ship today (April 1, 2019) that we believe will address these issues.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick Brannan (Faithlife) said:Kiyah said:
BUG: The RSV is missing interlinear information for the following books: Susanna and Bel and the Dragon. See this forum post for more details (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/174718.aspx). Initially I included Song of the Three Youths and 2 Esdras, however Song of the Three Youths seems to be working now, and 2 Esdras never had any interlinear info since the original text is in Latin (according to Isaiah from Faithlife). This problem does not exist for the RSVCE or RSV2CE.
An update to the RSV should ship today (April 1, 2019) that we believe will address these issues.
The updates have downloaded and the RSV reverse interlinear looks to be working now. Thanks!
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Please keep your requests focused on the kinds of things relevant to the needs of the academic/seminary audience
Here's something that would be really nice... partner with www.academia.edu to have all their academic papers available on demand in Logos. One possibility would be to simply have them available in the "public" tab of our Docs menu (with relevant faceted browsing, of course). I would prefer a solution, however, where I could get notified within Logos of any new Papers from the people I follow or the subjects I've selected. Also, I'd strongly prefer having these as library resources rather than "documents". Of course, a new resource type ("article" or "paper") would be required.
I would like the ability to set up "channels" that would automatically download papers that meet my criteria. Additionally, if the entire catalog could be indexed and populate the Cloud Resources Search Results, that would be incredible.
I know this is more of a New Feature request, but I think the value would be HUGE for academic users.
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Reuben Helmuth said:
Here's something that would be really nice... partner with www.academia.edu to have all their academic papers available on demand in Logos. One possibility would be to simply have them available in the "public" tab of our Docs menu (with relevant faceted browsing, of course). I would prefer a solution, however, where I could get notified within Logos of any new Papers from the people I follow or the subjects I've selected. Also, I'd strongly prefer having these as library resources rather than "documents". Of course, a new resource type ("article" or "paper") would be required.
I would like the ability to set up "channels" that would automatically download papers that meet my criteria. Additionally, if the entire catalog could be indexed add populate the Cloud Resources Search Results, that would be incredible.
I know this is more of a New Feature request, but I think the value would be HUGE for academic users.
This indeed would be HUGE!!!!!! Great idea!!!!![Y][Y][Y]
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Charlene said:Reuben Helmuth said:
Here's something that would be really nice... partner with www.academia.edu to have all their academic papers available on demand in Logos. One possibility would be to simply have them available in the "public" tab of our Docs menu (with relevant faceted browsing, of course). I would prefer a solution, however, where I could get notified within Logos of any new Papers from the people I follow or the subjects I've selected. Also, I'd strongly prefer having these as library resources rather than "documents". Of course, a new resource type ("article" or "paper") would be required.
I would like the ability to set up "channels" that would automatically download papers that meet my criteria. Additionally, if the entire catalog could be indexed add populate the Cloud Resources Search Results, that would be incredible.
I know this is more of a New Feature request, but I think the value would be HUGE for academic users.
This indeed would be HUGE!!!!!! Great idea!!!!!
I concur. This would be awesome.
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I still just want all the citations for everything in my library, especially journals, to be fully there and in the proper format I selected in the program settings.
I would love to click on ibid and have it take me to the resource, and not to the line above that also says ibid, and so forth.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
I still just want all the citations for everything in my library, especially journals, to be fully there and in the proper format I selected in the program settings.
I would love to click on ibid and have it take me to the resource, and not to the line above that also says ibid, and so forth.Agreed!
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