Level of User Control over the Appliation
Logos 4 has made a positive move in taking away a lot of the grunt work in managing our libraries. This is something that has been long requested. Has the pendulum swung too far though and taken too much control away from the user.
George suggested I start a thread up on this issue so Logos can gauge feeback on what we would like to have better control over.
Two hot issues at the moment are re-indexing and downloading, and they do impact on each other as dowloading leads to re-indexing A good thread dicussing the issue of downloads can be found here. It discusses issues of knowing exactly what it is we are downloading before we download it.
There have also been numerous calls for be able to schedule downloading and re-indexing to a more suitable time for the user rather than it just happening in the background automatically. Ths automatic downloading has been of concern particulary to those who may be using their computer on the road, or hooked up via a internet connection at work, or those who have download limits per month with either extra charges for going over the limit or their acces speed is cut-down to dial-up speed - this would be a nightmare if one was in the middle of downloading a 500MB update.
I had issues with my systerm locking up while it was indexing and everytime comptuer restarted it would start indexing again, lock up and I would have to reboot again... the only way I got out of this cycle was to reboot into safe-mode and do a system restore to a point before this automatic process started. There should be a way for a user to gracefully stop a process.
Another area of concern for me in terms of Account Management is there is no option to export and import a license key. Yes the cloud handles this for us and that's great, but what happens if you can't access the cloud, and for whatever reason, need to restore your license - there is no way for the user to do this... You have probably made a significant financilal invesment in this product but there is no way for you to re-install the application and your license to acces your files if you outside the cloud. At that point the financial investment becomes worthless.
Are there other things you would like to see more control over please add your thoughts here. For instance you might want a stop button on a guide to stop it generating, Whether it be something I've already touched on in this post or something different., feel free to add those issues to this thread. Remember Logos has asked us to participate in this program in order for them to get honest feeback on where they are at in meeting our needs as users of the product, so this is your chance to help shape this product. It is ok to say there is an aspect of the program you are not happy with as it currently stands.
Comments
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Andrew, a nicely put expression of concerns (better than my more recent intemperate outburst).
The other area over which I would like more control is datatypes. This has also come up often. I know that this is being addressed. How it is being addressed is not yet clear.
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here. For instance you might want a stop button on a guide to stop it generating, Whether it be something I've already touched on in this post or something different., feel free to add those issues to this thread. Remember Logos has asked us to participate in this program in order for them to get honest feeback on where they are at in meeting our needs as users of the product, so this is your chance to help shape this product. It is ok to say there is an aspect of the program you are not happy with as it currently stands.
A good one I just read read in another thread that I had thoughts about while using beta 1 is the ability to turn off pericope guessing.
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Control over home page options is being discussed here here
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I believe another common request was for the ability to designate your resource location, for example an external HDD that many would prefer to use for the gigs of Logos resources.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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For instance you might want a stop button on a guide to stop it generating,
Well there, you've said it. :-)
- A stop button on the guide's is a need for me. (at least make it respond to ESC).
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Andrew,
What I would like is an option to turn off the pictures of each resource; it takes up space and is distracting to me.
What I am trying to judge in myself is "do I not yet like v. 4 because I like v. 3 and know version 3-don't like change, or do I not like v. 4 because it is not intuitive to me or user friendly and thus hard to use and learn. Somewhat philosophical but based on the practical. My number one goal is to answer that question. Thanks for all you do, Andrew!
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And what would really help are the back arrows or forward arrows to previous screens. Maybe there is something that has replaced those, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks.
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- (at least make it respond to ESC).
Good request.
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And what would really help are the back arrows or forward arrows to previous screens. Maybe there is something that has replaced those, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks.
What do you mean "previous screens"? Like areas you've visted in the resource?
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George,
What I mean is what my page looked like just before I hit the next key on my computer; back to what I last saw...does that make sense? It's like a undo for a variety of reasons, maybe to just glance back and then a forward arrow to go...well, forward again.
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I believe another common request was for the ability to designate your resource location, for example an external HDD that many would prefer to use for the gigs of Logos resources.
Straight from the devs: "The installation folder will be able to be set when the
user first installs the program. Resources will be stored relative to this
folder. There will be no way to change Resource location after
installation."0 -
George,
What I mean is what my page looked like just before I hit the next key on my computer; back to what I last saw...does that make sense? It's like a undo for a variety of reasons, maybe to just glance back and then a forward arrow to go...well, forward again.
Sorry, by page you mean layout? You want a layout back/forward feature?
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Are there other things you would like to see more control over please add your thoughts here. For instance you might want a stop button on a guide to stop it generating, Whether it be something I've already touched on in this post or something different., feel free to add those issues to this thread. Remember Logos has asked us to participate in this program in order for them to get honest feeback on where they are at in meeting our needs as users of the product, so this is your chance to help shape this product. It is ok to say there is an aspect of the program you are not happy with as it currently stands.
A thread on user control over auto saving of searches has started here
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George, I am sorry my words aren't as clear to communicate to you what I mean; and because I am still stuck trying to find help[:D], I haven't messed around with layouts, I just mean the active window I was working in and then I hit a button to do something new, an arrow back to what I just did...I am not talking about an entire configuration I have set up or a workspace (v. 3 term) but just what I was doing before I moved ahead....I'm sorry if my words aren't helping.Sorry, by page you mean layout? You want a layout back/forward feature?
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George,
Just like the big arrows in the upper left hand corner of Internet Explorer. To do what they do.
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There have also been numerous calls for be able to schedule downloading and re-indexing to a more suitable time for the user rather than it just happening in the background automatically.
I had issues with my systerm locking up while it was indexing and everytime comptuer restarted it would start indexing again, lock up and I would have to reboot again...
This seems like a great idea to me ... I have also had numerous lockups while the machine was reindexing. I don't know if this is just because it's Beta or not, but "a way for a user to gracefully stop a process" with the ability to have it resume a a later time would be nice
Laptop:Vista Business SP2 32-bit OS / Intel Duo Core P8400@2.26Ghz / 3-Gigs RAM
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George,
Just like the big arrows in the upper left hand corner of Internet Explorer. To do what they do.
I'm sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, you are requesting something to go back to your previous panel, regardless of what the last action you committed against the program was? Or if you are viewing a resource, and click on something like a link inside there, and it opens a new panel, for you to use a back button to go back to that panel and not have to know which panel you were using? Is this the case? I'm sorry I guess to better help you answer, try to describe exactly which panels would be open, like resources or tools, and what kind of actions you would take that would leave the current panel, like clicking a ref link or right-clicking on something and going to a guide. It would help even more if you did a step-by-step instruction (again detailed) about your clicks and keyboard usage and the (new) back/forward buttons.
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There have also been numerous calls for be able to schedule downloading and re-indexing to a more suitable time for the user rather than it just happening in the background automatically.
I had issues with my systerm locking up while it was indexing and everytime comptuer restarted it would start indexing again, lock up and I would have to reboot again...
This seems like a great idea to me ... I have also had numerous lockups while the machine was reindexing. I don't know if this is just because it's Beta or not, but "a way for a user to gracefully stop a process" with the ability to have it resume a a later time would be nice
My 2.5 year old Core 2 Duo laptop shut down twice during Indexing. I had to use a household fan to direct cooling air at it until the process had completed! Nothing wrong with its internal fan, just the strain of continual 99% usage on both cores. I think the Indexer design could throw in some idle loops occasionally or offer a choice to "Index for xx minutes and resume after x minute"?
Background automatic updates are the issue. Give us the level of control we have with v3 Updates and a further level of control to manage the Indexing e.g.
- Update x, y, z resources 45 MB (requires Indexing) [Yes] [No]?
- Update a, b, c data items 12 MB (no indexing required) [Yes] [No]?
- Indexing to start after downloading [Yes] [No]?
The client interface (Logos4) can provide info on startup - -> "You now have 35 resources and 12 data items to index. Start Indexing [Yes] [No]"
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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George,
Just like the big arrows in the upper left hand corner of Internet Explorer. To do what they do.
I'm sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, you are requesting something to go back to your previous panel, regardless of what the last action you committed against the program was? Or if you are viewing a resource, and click on something like a link inside there, and it opens a new panel, for you to use a back button to go back to that panel and not have to know which panel you were using? Is this the case? I'm sorry I guess to better help you answer, try to describe exactly which panels would be open, like resources or tools, and what kind of actions you would take that would leave the current panel, like clicking a ref link or right-clicking on something and going to a guide. It would help even more if you did a step-by-step instruction (again detailed) about your clicks and keyboard usage and the (new) back/forward buttons.
George, I am referring to an active window (perhaps "active" is no longer correct terminology) such as an open resource in v. 3 and you go to a parallel resource which then becomes your new active window, being able to use a backwards arrow and go back to your previous active window. If you do this in version 3, I think you'll understand what I mean. I am without a Help section in v. 4 and so I am probably not using the correct terms. Sorry onmy end and thanks for your help.
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Joan,
Are you referring to the ability to "cycle through active windows"?
Like using the "tab" key in V3?
In V4 it's "Ctrl +shift+tab" as far as I can see...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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George (and Joan),
Joan, correct me if I'm wrong but are you asking for back/forward button that allows you to go back (your history) on what you've viewed in that window? For instance, in my NASB95 window I started in Gen. 1:1, went to Jn. 1:1, then went to 1 Jn. 1:1....but now, I'd like to go back to Gen. 1:1 and can click the (proposed) back arrow icon twice (or - maybe click on the left arrow key on the keyboard) to get to that passage. After that I could click on the (proposed) forward arrow icon (or right arrow key) to cycle forward to the Jn. 1:1 passage, click again on the forward arrow icon to get back to 1 Jn. 1:1
I hope that clarifies what I'm understanding of Joan's request. Joan, I'm sorry if I presumed wrong....just trying to help out. [:)]
Mitch
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http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com0 -
For instance, in my NASB95 window I started in Gen. 1:1, went to Jn. 1:1, then went to 1 Jn. 1:1....but now, I'd like to go back to Gen. 1:1 and can click the (proposed) back arrow icon twice (or - maybe click on the left arrow key on the keyboard) to get to that passage. After that I could click on the (proposed) forward arrow icon (or right arrow key) to cycle forward to the Jn. 1:1 passage, click again on the forward arrow icon to get back to 1 Jn. 1:1
I just remembered that we do have the ALT+arrow keys to go "backward" and "forward" throughout our history of the given window. Thus, Joan is POSSIBLY wanting an icon equivalent?
Mitch
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http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com0 -
Okay, feeling really dumb and hoping all of you are going to buy my "just woke up" excuse (ha!). The forward/backward arrows already existed. How could I have missed that. Was it available in Beta 1? All I know is that I've been so use to the ALT+arrow from v3 days and naturally am using it now (not sure if its "always" been around).
That leads me to believe that Joan - as Robert mentioned - is wanting to toggle through parallel resources? Kinda like the seemingly semi-working (left/right) arrow keys that can be used to toggle through "like" resources in v. 4 (works perfectly in v. 3).
P.S. - I will now stop presuming on your behalf...I'm probably getting myself into trouble. [:$]
Mitch
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http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com0 -
Okay, feeling really dumb and hoping all of you are going to buy my "just woke up" excuse (ha!). The forward/backward arrows already existed. How could I have missed that. Was it available in Beta 1? All I know is that I've been so use to the ALT+arrow from v3 days and naturally am using it now (not sure if its "always" been around).
That leads me to believe that Joan - as Robert mentioned - is wanting to toggle through parallel resources? Kinda like the seemingly semi-working (left/right) arrow keys that can be used to toggle through "like" resources in v. 4 (works perfectly in v. 3).
P.S. - I will now stop presuming on your behalf...I'm probably getting myself into trouble.
I think it's nice of you Mitch you try to help. Yes, the arrows are there since v4 Beta1 :-) they work (according to my knowledge) similar way as Joan is describing. Like Internet Browser back/forward arrows. It might be having some bugs, but the function is here. That's how I see it. I might be wrong of course.
Bohuslav
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Just to add an example:
I had a tab opened with NET BIble MArk 5:4. In that moment the left arrow icon went live. I then went by right arrow (on the keyboard) to NASB and changed to some other scripture. Then clicked left arrow icon and I was back to NASB titlepage (that might be bug) and with next left arrow icon click I was back in NET Mark 5:4. Is that what you asked for Joan? That is how IE would do it also.
Bohuslav
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Bless you all for trying to help me understand what I may have thought I meant last night
It's my fault for not being more familiar with v. 4 while still thinking in v. 3 mode. My brain was fried from all the indexing, re-indexing and re-re-indexing while my cpu was too HOT to come near. So, I was on my other machine which doesn't have the Beta on it composing my posts. I'm sorry! (My greatest issue is the indexing and how it consumes at least 95% of my cpu usage.) Thanks for your help. I did learn something from your posts. 0 -
Just to add an example:
I had a tab opened with NET BIble MArk 5:4. In that moment the left arrow icon went live. I then went by right arrow (on the keyboard) to NASB and changed to some other scripture. Then clicked left arrow icon and I was back to NASB titlepage (that might be bug) and with next left arrow icon click I was back in NET Mark 5:4. Is that what you asked for Joan? That is how IE would do it also.
Good Bug Bohuslav. Joan, is this back/forward arrow similar to what you were looking for? They don't cover ALL bases of back/forward actions, however as for browsing between resources and clicking links inside, they do seem to fit what you are looking for. They can be found at the top-right corner of the panel (next to the Information circular button labled 'i')
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Another area of concern for me in terms of Account Management is there is no option to export and import a license key. Yes the cloud handles this for us and that's great, but what happens if you can't access the cloud, and for whatever reason, need to restore your license - there is no way for the user to do this... You have probably made a significant financilal invesment in this product but there is no way for you to re-install the application and your license to acces your files if you outside the cloud. At that point the financial investment becomes worthless.
Hi Andrew, good points, I will request from the devs if there is any mechanism like the one you are talking about already implemented. Restore your license, you mean in case you uninstall the program, or something unpredictable happens and you don't have the internet?
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Yes. I noticed it in Infographics yesterday. The arrows used to be a lot larger ( v. 3). Thank you.Just to add an example:
I had a tab opened with NET BIble MArk 5:4. In that moment the left arrow icon went live. I then went by right arrow (on the keyboard) to NASB and changed to some other scripture. Then clicked left arrow icon and I was back to NASB titlepage (that might be bug) and with next left arrow icon click I was back in NET Mark 5:4. Is that what you asked for Joan? That is how IE would do it also.
Good Bug Bohuslav. Joan, is this back/forward arrow similar to what you were looking for? They don't cover ALL bases of back/forward actions, however as for browsing between resources and clicking links inside, they do seem to fit what you are looking for. They can be found at the top-right corner of the panel (next to the Information circular button labled 'i')
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I think Andrew's point is very well taken and really significant. There are many things that could affect "the cloud" and then could impact us. This gets at the very heart of user control.Another area of concern for me in terms of Account Management is there is no option to export and import a license key. Yes the cloud handles this for us and that's great, but what happens if you can't access the cloud, and for whatever reason, need to restore your license - there is no way for the user to do this... You have probably made a significant financilal invesment in this product but there is no way for you to re-install the application and your license to acces your files if you outside the cloud. At that point the financial investment becomes worthless.
Hi Andrew, good points, I will request from the devs if there is any mechanism like the one you are talking about already implemented. Restore your license, you mean in case you uninstall the program, or something unpredictable happens and you don't have the internet?
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