L4 and Precept (Inductive) Bible Studies.
Comments
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Sharon said:
What about the other one I can't remember. It was mentioned in a thread a couple of months ago. I didn't know I had it in my library. I think his first name might have been Bob??? (Watch, his name will probably be Mortimer!)
I read through quite a bit of his materials and was pretty pleased. He also has videos online...and I think he is retired. Does that ring a bell?No. I'm not familiar with this one. The only I've heard of in Logos that also has some videos online would be Morris Proctor, but I'm not familiar with his material.
I wonder if you might be thinking of Howard Hendricks Living by the Book. He has some videos here - http://www.dts.edu/about/faculty/hhendricks/ (click on the media option under his name).
Also, I'm glad to see you recommending Adler's How to Read a Book. Even though it isn't a book about studying the Bible (or even a Christian book) it is one of the best books to teach you to really read that I'm aware of.
πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε
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No I think she is talking about Bob Utley, from Texas!
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Jerry Walker said:
No I think she is talking about Bob Utley, from Texas!
Yay! Jerry!
Wow, I am going to give myself a couple of points for at least remembering that his name was Bob!
Jerry, have you used any of his materials? What do you think of them?
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Gary O'Neal said:Sharon said:
What about the other one I can't remember. It was mentioned in a thread a couple of months ago. I didn't know I had it in my library. I think his first name might have been Bob??? (Watch, his name will probably be Mortimer!)
I read through quite a bit of his materials and was pretty pleased. He also has videos online...and I think he is retired. Does that ring a bell?No. I'm not familiar with this one. The only I've heard of in Logos that also has some videos online would be Morris Proctor, but I'm not familiar with his material.
I wonder if you might be thinking of Howard Hendricks Living by the Book. He has some videos here - http://www.dts.edu/about/faculty/hhendricks/ (click on the media option under his name).
Also, I'm glad to see you recommending Adler's How to Read a Book. Even though it isn't a book about studying the Bible (or even a Christian book) it is one of the best books to teach you to really read that I'm aware of.
Yes, Adler's book is good - kinda like "Reading 101". And basically, reading is observing. Observation is the second step in any Bible study, the first being to pray, making sure you are right with God, and asking the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you into all Truth.
Hendricks also has a book called "Teaching to Change Lives". It's a quick read, simple, but practical.
And Jerry remembered my 'Mortimer mystery man' was Bob Utely - if you get a chance you might want to look over his materials. I found his method to be absolutely solidly right on.
Thanks for trying to help me remember!
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Sharon said:
Hi Ronald,
It blesses me more than you know whenever I hear a man get excited about studying the Bible inductively! We need more men who are committed to hearing the Lord's words directly from Him through His Word by His Holy Spirit. True expository preaching of the Word is lacking - and that is because true inductive study is lacking. You simply cannot expositorally preach God's Word until you have studied it inductively! (Excuse me while I step down from my soapbox.)
Yes, I am busy, but I can pop in and out and answer the easier questions as I can. I don't mind being busy - I love serving my Master. He's coming soon, you know!!! And I want to be found faithful and about His business!
Hi Sharon,
Thank you so much for your prompt reply, all the information, and for your kind words...much appreciated! I agree with you whole-heartedly regarding the lack of true expository preaching. It is a battle that I'm currently involved in at our church, trying to get some in-depth teaching and preaching from the pulpit and the classes/small groups offered. Anyway, if you stumble across any materials, please do let me know!
Thanks again!!
Ron
EDIT: BTW, if you wouldn't mind sending me a quick e-mail at ron [dot] keyston [at] evrazincna [dot] com when you get a chance, I wanted to tell you how my wife and I came across these materials. It was definitely a really neat "God thing" the way it all worked out. I don't want to derail the thread though.
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Hi all,
I am enjoying all the discussion on the Inductive Bible study methodology and I remember Kay Arthur's 4 tape teaching on Song of Solomon that changed my life or rocked my little (then-1977) world. Life changing and I don't know if it was an inductive study but she had an encounter with God and He opened up Song of Solomon to her. What I am wondering is how do the concepts of hermeneutics and exegesis "fit" in a schematic or blueprint that is centered on inductive study? Perhaps, a simple way to say this is-given you have a Bible study method, is it then based on a hermeneutic and is exegesis then a step (s) you take in your inductive study. I'm dealing right now on the conceptual level, but I have to account for original language studies. Thanks for your help.
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Sharon said:
The first workbook took you through the "scenes" of Revelation, asking you to observe what the text said, and asking you to draw each scene out (like stick people drawings).
There is an interesting methodology book
Handmade Midrash by Jo
Milgrom that deals with creating visual art as a way of getting into Scripture. While the book is clearly not Evangelical in its sense of Scripture, it is tied to the Jewish tradition of Scripture study. Of course, I would love to see it in Logos. It would support my argument for graphic capabilities in notes.[:)]Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ronald S Keyston Jr said:
EDIT: BTW, if you wouldn't mind sending me a quick e-mail at ron [dot] keyston [at] evrazincna [dot] com when you get a chance, I wanted to tell you how my wife and I came across these materials. It was definitely a really neat "God thing" the way it all worked out. I don't want to derail the thread though.
I sure will!
But I'm guessing that the people on this thread wouldn't consider it a hijack at all and would LOVE to hear about the hand of God drawing you and moving you into position to seek Him all the more diligently![:)]
As far as that goes, this thread seems to get resurrected in different forms every couple of weeks and I am always so thrilled to hear about His sheep hearing His voice, following Him, and wanting to hear His voice all the more. We are the sheep of His pasture--what a great pasture we live in, a perfect pasture because it's HIS. (I'd like to make a little remark here about what it TRULY means to "go green", but I will refrain.)[H] And HE is our Shepherd, taking care of us, leading us to the choicest places to munch on our lunches, all the while, He, OUR Shepherd is sitting there with us, speaking to us, telling us of His plans--His great and mighty plans, His merciful plans, His wrathful plans, His righteous and true plans, His imminent plans! Oh, I do love Him...
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Hi Joan,
The Song of Solomon tapes were not an inductive study, they didn't have one on Song of Solomon then. It probably was from a weekend couples conference or women's conference (Kay doesn't speak herself at the men's conferences.) When Kay actually teaches, it is different than when she writes a study book. She gets right to the heart of the matter in a short time. And the radio and television teachings aren't the really good stuff either. When she takes you through, say the book of Jude, in a weekend, or if you are blessed enough to be able to take one of their pilot courses and then be in the audience for Kay's teaching on each chapter, well, I can't tell you what a feast you will eat. And those times are only a small taste of what our wedding feast with the Lord (someday soon) will be like! And I don't mean to glorify Kay, all the glory goes to God. He has given her some "biggie fries" in the Spiritual gift department! It's the WORD that we eat! It is seeing Him through His Word by the Spirit that makes it such a delicacy.
Your next question is being put into "I need a little bit more time to answer" box, if you don't mind. But you can know this--there is no eisogesis allowed! Nor will "Hermen" have any of his rules broken! [;)] I took an inductive Bible study course, taught by Dr. James McHaan, then president of Tyndale Bible College. What a treat! Anyway, his methodology and Precept's have never been in contradiction.
Gotta go again!
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Wait! Before I go...what happened to your avatar? What does this one mean? (I know that last one meant you are a very pretty lady--especially for being waaayyy older than I am!)[;)]
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The last avatar was how wonderful digital photography can make one look and remove a decade or two. This is one is devoted to my alma mater-MSU; Final four in basketball. It changes next week. We are into sports.
Sharon, please do not belabor the exegesis/hermeneutics question other than to perhaps, mention where you work in your original language/lexica studies. D.A. Carson on Exegetical Fallacies is a great read and does destroy eisegesis along with illegitimate totality transfer-a very common error. (You know, my chosen hermeneutics has a more pneumatic thrust. Lately discovered). And could you mention where you work in your commentaries? Yes, that would be great. I think if someone were to read this thread as is (and maybe I am way wrong) they might wonder why we have such large, fantastic libraries. Happy Spring!
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Sharon said:Jerry Walker said:
No I think she is talking about Bob Utley, from Texas!
Yay! Jerry!
Wow, I am going to give myself a couple of points for at least remembering that his name was Bob!
Jerry, have you used any of his materials? What do you think of them?
Sharon do I? I don't preach until I see what he has to say about the text Im studing. He is great! One of my favorites if not the favorite.
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Jerry Walker said:
Sharon do I? I don't preach until I see what he has to say about the text Im studing. He is great! One of my favorites if not the favorite.
Cool! I'm going to dig through some more of his materials. I saw, when I looked his name up online, a you-tube someone had done from one of his sermons. I loved it! In fact, I told several students about him at the time.
I am so glad you remembered his name! I am wondering if you were the one who mentioned him in that thread a couple months or so ago??? That's where I first heard of him, checked him out, and came up with a big thumb's up! Either way -- thanks, Jerry!
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Vote for the entire set of precept symbols in Logos here:
http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4?filter=top&page=3
It is currently on the 3rd page with only 5 votes.
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It now has 8 votes![:)]
Charlene
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Woohoo! Up to 13. It's now on page 2:
http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4?filter=top&page=2
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Can someone upload a file of what a complete set would look like? (Beyond what is on the sample card on the back of the workbooks?) I plan to rebuild a Markup palette from scratch anyway, and will share if and when it is possible in 4...
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John Norman said:
Can someone upload a file of what a complete set would look like? (Beyond what is on the sample card on the back of the workbooks?) I plan to rebuild a Markup palette from scratch anyway, and will share if and when it is possible in 4...
I think someone did that recently on another thread. I will see if I can find it.
EDIT: Try this...Kim Clayton posted a link to a blog with six pages of symbols:
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Sharon said:
I think you might find, for the most part, that the IISS are even more "lazy friendly" (to use your phrase)
than IO. In other words, you can pretty much read them without doing the study and figure out what their take is.Yep, you are absolutely correct. Our book showed up yesterday and it is a very "surface" survey with MAYBE 10-15 minutes of work a day. Ah well, we will start with this one (but probably do 3-4 days of work per day) and then move on to one of the PUP studies.
BTW, did you get my e-mail yesterday?
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Ron Keyston Jr said:
I think someone did that recently on another thread. I will see if I can find it.
EDIT: Try this...Kim Clayton posted a link to a blog with six pages of symbols:
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/11330.aspx?PageIndex=3
Thanks... here is a copy of what I use in Libronix 3 as a jpg file... (You may need to zoom to see it properly)
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John Norman said:
Thanks... here is a copy of what I use in Libronix 3 as a jpg file
That's awesome! I hope you don't mind if I steal a few of those?
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Please do... You can even find the Libronix 3 XML file on my blog at www.stilltruth.com...
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Ron Keyston Jr said:
Woohoo! Up to 13. It's now on page 2:
http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4?filter=top&page=2
And I just added my three to make it 23!
(PS Ronald, I don't have my gmailing done yet! I"ll read it before Prayer tonight and write you back tomorrow. Can't wait!)
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John Norman said:
Thanks... here is a copy of what I use in Libronix 3 as a jpg file...
Hi Norman,
Is there a video lying around somewhere that would help everyone with how you did this?[Y]
Thanks!
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Sharon said:
Hi Norman,
Is there a video lying around somewhere that would help everyone with how you did this?
Thanks!
No idea... I never got around to making videos or writing a tutorial on creating markups in detail.
The interface in Logos 4 is different, but the same options are still available, and it looks like a few new ones have been added... If I have some free time, will try recording a quick video, but kinda busy over Easter... God bless...0 -
That would be super, Norman!
Thanks in advance!
Charlene
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Update: The suggestion for completing the precept/inductive symbol collection is only 4 votes away from reaching the first page on UserVoice:
http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4?filter=top&page=2
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Special experiment for those who are brave.[:)] I have put together a utility to import Logos 4 Highlighting Palettes and posted it on my blog at http://www.stilltruth.com/blog/normanjd/import-utility-logos-4-palettes if you want to try it out. Note that not all the Libronix 3 Style creation features are available, so my Logos 4 palette is slightly modified to compensate. (For instance, used a Old English font for "Ark of Covenant" as the Engraved feature no longer exists....)
Will work on a video tutorial for creating styles some time next week as time permits.
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John Norman said:
Special experiment for those who are brave.
I have put together a utility to import Logos 4 Highlighting Palettes and posted it on my blog at http://www.stilltruth.com/blog/normanjd/import-utility-logos-4-palettes if you want to try it out. Note that not all the Libronix 3 Style creation features are available, so my Logos 4 palette is slightly modified to compensate. (For instance, used a Old English font for "Ark of Covenant" as the Engraved feature no longer exists....)Will work on a video tutorial for creating styles some time next week as time permits.
Thanks for this. I went to stilltruth after you mentioned it and couldn't find your blog. (I get lost on that site.) That's why I asked earlier about a video. Now that you put the link here I will go back and check it out. Thanks for being so helpful.
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