New World Translation?

I remember some time ago, if I remember correctly that there was a copy of the New World Translation I think going around in PBB. I know back then that there was even discussion of several other religions writings being discussed to be or desired to be in Libronix. Any one remember any of those discussings or if any of these are available?

Thanks,

Marcus

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Rosie Perera

I remember some time ago, if I remember correctly that there was a copy of the New World Translation I think going around in PBB. I know back then that there was even discussion of several other religions writings being discussed to be or desired to be in Libronix. Any one remember any of those discussings or if any of these are available?

There's the Qur'an, available in both English and Arabic.

ELA

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113044#Comment_113044

Yes, I too would like to know if "New World Translation" is available in Logos. I have an esword version that I found somewhere on the Internet (don't remember where) - and it is so nice to have it available for reference. But I would be happy to have in Logos as well. Maybe it's a copyright question and that's the reason why it has been removed?

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113102#Comment_113102

I would LOVE to have the NWT available in Logos!

Also, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the pearl of Great Price.

John Nerdue

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113103#Comment_113103

From what I understand (I am not a Jehovah's Witness or affiliated in any way) they don't allow anyone to have the NWT. The one for e-Sword was done without their consent and if you find it in any other software program chances are it's a copyright violation. They do have their own software (I have it) but it is very hard to get. You might find their software on the Internet auction sites.

si_cochran

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113131#Comment_113131

The one for e-Sword was done without their consent and if you find it in any other software program chances are it's a copyright violation. They do have their own software (I have it) but it is very hard to get. You might find their software on the Internet auction sites.

Yes, a distributed NWT would in fact be an illegal copy, unless it is the Watch Tower Society that is distributing it. The only legally available source for a digital NWT (aside from the software mentioned above by James) is on the Watch Tower Society website. You can find it at http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm. I think one could legally make a pbb book by taking the text from their website, but this could not be distributed to anyone else. Though it would be nice to have an available copy to distribute openly, we have to follow Paul's words in Romans 13:1-7.

Milkman

Fortunately I have all the WT material on a DVD as far back as 1950. Very good information, including the NWT. I received this from a Witness friend last week and have found it very usful for understanding what the Witnesses are thinking and how they view those (me) outside the organization.

As I mentioned in a previous forum, I'd like to see all of their resources in L4. Probably not too hard to do, one only needs to be able to convince the WT to give permission to do so.

Eric Ruhnow

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113399#Comment_113399

Speaking as someone whose wife was in the JWs (and now out - praise be to God), The WTS views anyone who believes counter to the "official" teachings from the WTS headquarters as apostate, which would include Logos.

They will not allow any "apostate" permission to publish their material. They keep a very tight grip on their copyrights.

Their own software includes a license agreement that states that you must be a "baptized publisher" in good standing with the WTS to even install it.

Honestly, I think there is a better chance to get the governing body to admit to the Deity of Christ, than there is to have them allow someone else publish their materials.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113399#Comment_113399

Probably not too hard to do, one only needs to be able to convince the NWT to give permission to do so.

Easier said than done. One of my co-workers was a JW and constantly trying to sell me literature. I was told they are required to charge a price because prospects would not otherwise read the literature. (Quite a contrast to my contacts with Mormon evangelists.) I did buy an official Watchtower publications CD off an auction site. The LDS publications are also avilable on CD from the copyright holders. Both groups are obviously missing out on the search capabilities of Logos 4. Maybe they don't want the scrutiny that would result.

My roomate from Bible college actually had need of those collections when he joined Mission to the Mormons in Salt Lake City. With my limited interaction, I have found the Logos apologetics material much more useful in evangelizing JWs and Mormons than reading their publications. There are old public domain books in PDF format but it would be cool to run a Bible Version River comparison on NWT vs others. [^o)]

Don

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113103#Comment_113103

I would LOVE to have the NWT available in Logos!

Also, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the pearl of Great Price.

If you have acces to Libronix, the Book of Mormon & Doctrine and Covenants are both available as PBB.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113410#Comment_113410

Their own software includes a license agreement that states that you must be a "baptized publisher" in good standing with the WTS to even install it.

Uh, oh. That is news to me. I wonder where an apostate goes on judgement day if he didn't read their EULA. [6]

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113411#Comment_113411

"Easier said than done." Not really. Fortunately it's been very easy to get whatever I've asked for.

I attended a Memorial Service this past Tuesday at one of our Kingdom Halls in the City. It was very nice to see the Witnesses, adults, sincerly worshipping Jehovah. The kids were another story though, but then when we see the kids running around in our own church, we know that they are there because of us parents.

As we all know, the Witnesses honestly believe that they are in the "Truth" and are worshipping the One True God. It's up to those who are called or feel the pull to not only be-friend but also, to share the GN about the 'real' Christ to them.

I would like to see a forum on L4 specifically for us who are trying to lead our Witness friends or aquaintaces to the Lord. Even a forum that includes all 'cults' to discuss and share ideas/strategies.

Considering the amazing brain power that uses L4 we could really help each other. Think of the ppl who use L4. Pastors, profs, teachers, SS workers, lay people and the very intelligent, nobody excluded.

Keith Gant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113411#Comment_113411

... With my limited interaction, I have found the Logos apologetics material much more useful in evangelizing JWs and Mormons than reading their publications...

Matthew,
Which Logos apologetics resources or packages did you find helpful in this regard?

Marcus Baird

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113412#Comment_113412

Where are the PBB resources?

Thanks,

Marcus

Chris Ease

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113433#Comment_113433

I have way too much distractions in life to justify the want of a nwt for myself. . I just can't see myself with a nwt. Apologetically speaking it may be of value. I could see a use for people with specific gifts. I do have a dead tree version 1901 ASV that was used by JW. The forward of the book is all JW dogma, but the bible is a true ASV. I guess it is rejected by JW since they have updated their scripture to nwt.,

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113432#Comment_113432

Which Logos apologetics resources or packages did you find helpful in this regard?

I've had considerable contact with JW's due to a Kingdom
Hall nearby and a JW influenced neighbor, and have spent 10-15 hours in dialogue with a JW elder.

Logos has helpful resources for studying JW's, but
one book in particular is the best I've seen in paper or digital, that is David Reed's How to Rescue Your Loved
One from the Watch Tower. The reason why this book is so helpful is that it
defines a strategy for reaching JW's and provides key reprints of damning Watchtower
publications. IMHO, it should be in
everyone's library.

Reed was a former JW and a Harvard grad. All his stuff is good.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113433#Comment_113433

Where are the PBB resources?

http://www.stilltruth.com/page/libronix_pbb_files

They only work in Libronix (Logos 3), though. PBB has not been implemented yet for L4, though it is planned for a future release. Presumably (hopefully) all those old PBB titles will be able to be imported/converted to the new PBB format. A huge amount of labor and love has gone into creating them.

Don

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113467#Comment_113467

The two Mormon books are on this page clearly marked as heretical and for apologetics use only.

More precisely Book of Mormon and Doctrines & Covenants

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113450#Comment_113450

I have way too much distractions in life to justify the want of a nwt for myself.

I really do not want the NWT - but I can understand why some might. As a Wesleyan, I find two grave errors made both ourselves and others. We tend to criticize straw men - those from a Wesleyan perspective tend to be critical of our Calvinist/Reformed (or any other branch that differs) brethern based on our definition of Calvinism and the Reformed traditions - rather than reading those works for ourselves. Similarly, those from a Calvinist, Reformed, etc., perspective, tend to be critical of their own definition of Wesleyan/Arminian theology.

I am glad that I attended Trinity Evangelical Divinity School where we used Strong as our theological text. I was privileged to sit under the teaching of such men as Kaiser and Geisler. I came out a Wesleyan, but have a better understanding the Calvinist or Baptist perspective than some of my other Wesleyan brothers. I do wonder how many from a Calvinist perspective have read Watson, Pope, or Miley (all three are available on-line, Miley is available in Logos, Pope is currently listed as a community pricing title).

I will not be looking for a NWT, but given my comments above, I can understand why others may.

Marcus Baird

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113567#Comment_113567

Since I work in a prison as the chaplain where the state recognizes 30+ religions these resources are helpful. One main goal I have is to be instramental in challenging the incarcerated to think reasonable about Christ, His payment for them and then to offer the way to find and trust Him. After I have done this I have peace with Christ that I have done what a disciaple should do. The resources give me a perspective of what these people understand to be true to them etc.

The initial request sure has people talking which is a good thing.

Marcus

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113598#Comment_113598

Floyd, thanks so much for making this point, I have a ministry which allows me to give out free bible software and teach believers how to use it. I run across believers from many different traditions, and I have seen what you are talking about over and over.

In fact, most people want me to tell them what I believe, and I tell them I believe the bible is what I should believe and follow, and that is why I spend so much of my time reading and researching what the scriptures say. Of course this drives most people nuts, they just have to put a tag on me, but I do not allow it.

If I am with a Calvinist and I am teaching them how to study the scriptures without them knowing it we are soon dealing with one verse after another that is difficult for most Calvinist to deal with, the same is true of any other position. I try to make them dig into the word of God and question their own position without ever letting them know what we are doing.

I have recently requested that people bid on that 3 volume set you have mentioned bt Pope, even if they are Calvinist so they could use it to understand more about their non-Calvinist brothers and sisters.

The more I grow in the knowledge of Christ, through Him being revealed to me by the Holy Spirit through the scrriptures, the more I love those brothers that disagree with me. I kind of like that!

Let the straw men be slain! They have never helped anyone!

In Christ,

Jim

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113679#Comment_113679

The more I grow in the knowledge of Christ, through Him being revealed to me by the Holy Spirit through the scrriptures, the more I love those brothers that disagree with me. I kind of like that!

Yeah, me too.

Thanks for the comment.

Roger Feenstra

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113679#Comment_113679

I have recently requested that people bid on that 3 volume set you have mentioned bt Pope, even if they are Calvinist so they could use it to understand more about their non-Calvinist brothers and sisters.

It is difficult to follow the line of thought here...how did this jump from providing the NWT in L4 and Jehovah's Witnesses to Calvinists vs. non-Calvinists? [:^)]

the more I love those brothers that disagree with me.

Not at all meaning that JW's are brothers, right?

I try to make them dig into the word of God and question their own position without ever letting them know what we are doing.

This would be one tactic if one wanted to use the NWT for sharing the Good News. It has enough truth in it that I believe one could show a person that Jesus Christ is God. But, because of the greater amount of error, I don't personally see a benefit in having the NWT in a chemical (silicon) version in Logos4.

Simon Pleasants

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113720#Comment_113720

I've found this topic very interesting as my wife and I have been witnessing to a Jehovah Witness for the last five months or so. I have found insisting on the following guidelines helpful:

1. Only talk about one topic: the divinity of Jesus. If we don't insist on this (and even when we do) the conversation gets off topic very quickly and we end up talking about things such as who the 144,000 are in Revelation.

2. Only quote from the Bible. I think JWs consider their publications as equally authoritative as the Bible. They find it much harder to argue the point from the Bible when they are not quoting their own material.

One book that I've found very helpful for presenting the divinity of Jesus is "Putting Jesus in His Place" by R. M. Bowman and J. Ed Komoszeki (unfortunately, it's not currently available for Logos). It's a very readable book that shows that the divinity of Christ is taught throughout the NT and not in just a few proof texts. I don't use it directly, but rather I print out the verses given in the Appendix that show that Jesus shares the same honour, attributes, names, and deeds as God the Father (Jehovah) (I'd be happy to email these if anyone is interested docsimple at gmail dot com)

I'd be interested in learning about tactics that others have adopted.

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113744#Comment_113744

1. Only talk about one topic: the divinity of Jesus. If we don't insist on this (and even when we do) the conversation gets off topic very quickly and we end up talking about things such as who the 144,000 are in Revelation.

[Y]

I remember my first encounter with them when I was a young Christian. Their opening question was "do you believe in War?" and for the next 45 minutes, they drug me through every philosophical knothole and swamp there was, until I finally had to ask them to please go away.

It was a good lesson though, keep the conversations focused.

Simon Pleasants

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113744#Comment_113744

Sorry, email address should be docsimple111 at gmail dot com.

David H. Preuss II

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/113253#Comment_113253

Using the link from Si Cochran, go to their site, go to read Bible online, then choose the Epub download. Once you have that you can convert the book to rtf format using freeware calibre software (it takes about 7 minutes to convert). Once you have it in rtf, open it in MS Word, go at least to ea book title and change the title to heading type 1 or title (otherwise you'll have no table of contents links in Logos), and then save as docx. Open your Logos4, go to my tools > personal books > add Book and add the file and cover image, and be sure change type to Bible > then build you book. This doesn't convert as a regular Bible, there are no verse links and it does not integrate into the rest of Logos like normal Bible resources, but it does get the text in front of you.

This use of docx format in Logos is amazing. You can look something up on Wiki, copy and paste to Word, save as docx and import into Logos through this means. You have to remove the hyperlinks while in Word by rt clicking over them and choose remove hyperlinks... but now that you build it as a book in Logos 4 all Scripture refs are now linked in Logos. It's pretty awesome. Look up something like "the Book of Revelation" in Wiki and copy and paste a sample w/ lots of Bible refs. Enjoy your study

for study of the JW cult, don't forget equip.org http://www.equip.org/category/jehovahs-witnesses/