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- What is performance on M1? Slower, faster, about the same?
- How many of our users are migrating to Apple's new processors?
- What are the expected performance gains of being fully native?
- What are the anticipated costs of migrating to a native solution?
- What is performance on M1? Slower, faster, about the same?
- How many of our users are migrating to Apple's new processors?
- What are the expected performance gains of being fully native?
- What are the anticipated costs of migrating to a native solution?
Any timeline for Logos to be made compatible without the use of Rosetta?
No. We don't even have a production machine yet to do performance benchmarking. We have a pre-production development machine that may or may not reflect the production machine's performance. We should be getting one or more very soon, and we'll start to do more extensive compatibility testing, performance benchmarking, etc.
Based on some early indications that we're seeing among tech reviewers, there's a chance performance could be slightly improved even with the emulation layer. If that's the case, there won't be as much urgency to build a native solution. We're exploring different options for native, but that's still a research project.
So, we need more information before we can determine where to fit this in our priority queue:
Once we have more detail on these points, we're happy to come back and provide a relative priority and more in terms of expectation than "we're not sure yet."
I'm sorry we don't have more to share at this point.
When will Rosetta disappear?Previously, Rosetta hadn't disappeared until five years after Apple had completed its transition to PowerPC.
So two years to hire [if needed] expert programers specializing in the Apple Chips [may already be on board within the iOS group], One year to Plan, execute and test the Apple Chip programs [if Logos was written correctly may only need a recompile], one year for Beta, and release the Apple Chip version one year before Rosetta goes away. Not time to worry. We [and being a PC person I did say WE] will need periodic updates to the status.
Based on some early indications that we're seeing among tech reviewers, there's a chance performance could be slightly improved even with the emulation layer. If that's the case, there won't be as much urgency to build a native solution. We're exploring different options for native, but that's still a research project.
So, we need more information before we can determine where to fit this in our priority queue:
This seems very reasonable to me.
I'm looking forward to hearing confirmation but I would expect that performance on M1 would be at least on par with performance on Intel. That removes the urgency to upgrade.
I would rather Logos take their time to do a great job of integrating this transition into their existing development plans, so that in 5 years Logos has leaped forward... than them be pressured to rush a transition for (at first) a minority of customers and increase their maintenance load prematurely.
What did Faithlife do when Apple switched from PPC to Intel? How long was it before they announced a plan, etc? Obviously, they made the switch otherwise they wouldn't be here.
Im not a software developer, so I have no clue what goes into planning something like this. My claim to computer fame was working part-time at the Apple Store for about a year back in 2010.
That being said... I can't imagine any major software company (that already has a Mac user base) not thinking how to make the migration.
I look fwd to whatever Faithlife does to make use of the new chip and battery life the M1 offers. I have spent quite a bit in the last 6 years as a Logos user. It would be sad if "all" I got to do with it in the future is read on my iPad. The mobile experience just doesn't compare to the desktop one. I hope they don’t try to soup-up the iPad app and turn that into a desktop app—I hope that it will always be the true desktop experience.
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What did Faithlife do when Apple switched from PPC to Intel?
I dont think FL had a version compatible with PPC.
I think I am wrong. [:)]
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L4 Mac came out in November 2009. I don't know when the earlier "Logos for Mac" was released. The transition from Power PC to intel happened in 2006.
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L4 Mac came out in November 2009. I don't know when the earlier "Logos for Mac" was released. The transition from Power PC to intel happened in 2006.
Logos for Mac Version 1 Alpha was released in March 2008, abut 2 years after it was first announced. This is the reason FL is now very, very reluctant to announce projected release dates.
Since I was running Logos via Virtual PC, I was ready for my Christmas present in 2006 (or was it 2007), but alas, there was no Logos in my stocking that Christmas [:'(]
Logos on the new M1 works just fine. It's a tad slower to load than the intel i5. Once things are running, they are fine. Here's my video of side by side comparisons of them loading. https://youtu.be/1e052zaQoQA
Many years ago Logos got burned by giving dates for the appearance of the first Mac version. Since then, the company has been reluctant to provide promised dates for major upgrades—or even minor ones.
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With the amount of resources ($$$) that we have invested in this tool over a 20+ year period, that is really an unacceptable response. I do hope the company is a bit more responsive to their customers than that. No corporation today wants to promise something and then miss the target, I get that. But having spent over 30 years in the corporate world, that was never a luxury I could afford if I wanted to remain in business. We met deadlines that we set for ourselves. I am aware that software vendors do not want to promise and then underperform. No one does. But if you are going to do business at the level Logos is now at, get over it. Same question, any timeline for Logos to be made compatible with the M! Mac chip. Adobe thinks next year some time. So do several other much larger vendors. The only issue is I have invested many more $$$ in this package than those so that increases the vested interest in knowing how long a workaround has to be in place for my day to day work.
I get that, I really do. A non-answer answer though is unacceptable when you have as much $$$$ in the tool as many of us do. Many software vendors are struggling to catch up with Apple. Logos is not the only one. Much larger entities like Adobe are not there yet. Thus the work around using Rosetta. Other vendors have provided ballpark dates. Do not ever put out a date if you do not intend to keep it. 30 years in the corporate world taught me that. As a customer though, it is my expectation that the organization would have learned from past mistakes and failures and created processes to prevent them from happening in the future. As large as Logos as gotten over the years, I see that is indeed the case. Thus I suspect they may have a general idea as to when a solution may be available. I did not ask for a date, just a timeline.
Since L9 should run at least as well in Rosetta with an M1 as it does on Intel machines, we will likely have to endure the hardship of performance of about an i9 processor. Right now I am doing that on a Win machine and it's just so terrible hard...
Not.
Seriously, I expect FL will probably get this together in the next several months. L9 just came out. So let's cut them slack as they work on L9 to make it better for everyone. We will get there.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196329/1135550.aspx#1135550
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
Thanks