Trying to understand Search and Factbook

xnman
xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭
edited November 21 in English Forum

So... I think I am beginning to put some of this Search and Factbook  and such... together.

Search and Factbook all search "datasets" that Logos builds and do not actually search the books in my library. Is that correct????

I mean, I can understand the advantages of searching the datasets to be faster, etc. But do Search and Factbook actually search the books themselves?

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

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Comments

  • DMB
    DMB Member Posts: 3,087

    Either and.

    Depends on your search.  If you type in a literal word (eg 'salvation' or maybe a greek word), it's searching the text of the resource (actually, an index).  But when you start using the funny squiggly marks ( [, etc), you're searching FL's work, whether it be tagging, interlinear lines, labels, and so on.

    Your question might seem naive at first, but actually it speaks to whose work (and reliability) that you're trusting. 

    One thing you might always remember, is all those labels and 'factbooks' are just the modern version of the old concordance in the back of your Bible. Lookup lists.

  • Dave Hooton
    Dave Hooton MVP Posts: 35,682

    Search and Factbook all search "datasets" that Logos builds and do not actually search the books in my library. Is that correct????

    You can get an idea of how Factbook works from the Logos Help resource. First thing is that it does not require use of the Internet, so it is generated on your computer from your resources and datasets. This give you an idea of the datasets it has to access:-

    image

    Search can also use these datasets, and there are many other other 'topical' datasets. A <Person ....> search will use Biblical-Referents + Biblical People and 'map' the results onto your bible provided they have a reverse interlinear. In general, a term that uses {...} will use datasets, but terms like <Bible Jn 3>, <TDNT 8.1> are datatypes found in a resource via tagging.  The first is a bible reference, the second is a reference to an entry in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Strong's Numbers are another datatype e.g. <G875>, <H765>  (abbreviated). See https://wiki.logos.com/Search_HELP#id:1.2e_References

    I can understand the advantages of searching the datasets to be faster, etc

    Speed is not the reason. It is the ability to store complex data entities so that they can be mapped onto many different bibles (for example) without having to tag every bible for the same data e.g. Cultural Concepts, Biblical Events.

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 11 & Android 13

  • xnman
    xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭

    Speed is not the reason. It is the ability to store complex data entities so that they can be mapped onto many different bibles (for example) without having to tag every bible for the same data e.g. Cultural Concepts, Biblical Events.

    Aaah Sooo said the blind man to his deaf wife!

    I do follow the logic...   Now... another question.... Which you may not know.... So Logos people build these datasets... and (for what it's worth)... then Factbook and Search hit the datasets to pull data they have been requested to find??  And is the building of the datasets a manual process or a program generated one?  

    xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

    Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 53,133

    And is the building of the datasets a manual process or a program generated one?  

    That depends on the dataset. The process for building it is included in its documentation. 

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 53,133

    and do not actually search the books in my library

    Some searches, search the books in your library (in some form e.g. indexed)

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Dave Hooton
    Dave Hooton MVP Posts: 35,682

    So Logos people build these datasets... and (for what it's worth)... then Factbook and Search hit the datasets to pull data they have been requested to find??

    Faithlife build the datasets and they are classed as resources because you have to purchase & download them, usually as part of a Feature Upgrade as opposed to a Library/Collection of books. Datasets do not appear in your Library.

    Then Factbook and Search can access the datasets to get to the data that has been requested!

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 11 & Android 13

  • xnman
    xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭

    Faithlife build the datasets and they are classed as resources because you have to purchase & download them, usually as part of a Feature Upgrade as opposed to a Library/Collection of books. Datasets do not appear in your Library.

    Then Factbook and Search can access the datasets to get to the data that has been requested!

    Uh Huh!  So if someone doesn't buy the feature upgrade... then their ability to search is limited because they don't have access to the right "datasets"???  Am I thinking right??

    xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

    Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

  • Graham Criddle
    Graham Criddle MVP Posts: 32,474

    Uh Huh!  So if someone doesn't buy the feature upgrade... then their ability to search is limited because they don't have access to the right "datasets"???  Am I thinking right??

    That is correct.

    For example, one of the datasets Dave showed above is for Biblical People. This enables us to search for something like <Person Paul> and find every occurrence where that person is mentioned even if not by name.

    If you don’t have that dataset, you can’t do that search.

  • xnman
    xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭

    That is correct.

    For example, one of the datasets Dave showed above is for Biblical People. This enables us to search for something like <Person Paul> and find every occurrence where that person is mentioned even if not by name.

    If you don’t have that dataset, you can’t do that search.

    Thanks Graham... I appreciate your knowledge and willingness to help. 

    How do I tell which and how many datasets I have?

    Edit: And how do I tell what I am missing?

    Edit again:   I found the databases or datasets ... 

    xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

    Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

  • Graham Criddle
    Graham Criddle MVP Posts: 32,474

    How do I tell which and how many datasets I have?

    Click the icon with three dots at the top-right of the Logos screen and select the About Logos Bible software option from the menu

    Then are are a list of datasets in the scrolling panel on the left

    Edit: And how do I tell what I am missing?

    Try using this url - https://www.logos.com/search?sortBy=Relevance&limit=60&page=1&ownership=unowned&geographicAvailability=availableToMe&filters=resourcetype-datasets_Resource%20Type 

    It filters the Logos sales page to just show datasets that are unowned by you.

    Alternatively, go to https://www.logos.com/compare/featuresets and tick the Hide features I own button to see which features you don't have access to. This might be more useful than looking at datasets as it tries to show specifically what functionality you don't currently have available without needing to know which datasets support which particular functionality.

  • xnman
    xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭

    xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

    Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

  • xnman
    xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭

    One more question...

    With Logos...  I can buy or own a book and not have the dataset to search that book?

    xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

    Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!

  • Andrew Batishko
    Andrew Batishko Member, Community Manager, Logos Employee Posts: 5,366

    With Logos...  I can buy or own a book and not have the dataset to search that book?

    You should always be able to search for simple text terms. No dataset is needed for that. Searching with the datasets is achieved with all the fancy, complicated syntax.

    Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer

  • xnman
    xnman Member Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭

    You should always be able to search for simple text terms. No dataset is needed for that. Searching with the datasets is achieved with all the fancy, complicated syntax.

    Thank you Andrew! Lately, I've outspoken about Search... but I do appreciate all the work that I know has been put into making Logos what it is. 

    Thanks.

    xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

    Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!