Research Project: How would you...?
I am starting a research project and am trying to figure out the best way to keep notes. Specifically, I am wanting to gather scripture verses on the topic and to make comments.
If this were a simple sermon (or series), I would know exactly the tools and strategy I would use. As I am thinking through this project, however, I know that those techniques would not work.
I am trying to figure out if there is a good solution in Logos, or if I would need to utilize a third party app.
The notes tool in Logos overwhelms me and I never use it. If anyone thinks it is good and can convince me, I am willing to listen.
I think what I would really like is the ability to have an annotated passage list. My current thought is to use a spread sheet app to create columns. Is there any means in Logos to create something like this? The performance would need to be good as I intend to have hundreds of passages.
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If you don't currently use the notes in Logos I would not start now. It's been my experience back in version 8 I made the decision to figure out and crack Logos notes, so anything I do in Logos I use the Notes tool. Over time I have come to depend on the Notes in Logos because it's all I use now with the software. I have a better word processor on the computer so I could use it, but in the software you can link everything from your research. You can do that with outside notes too but it's a couple extra steps. If something overwhelms you then I would use that exclusively until you are not overwhelmed any further. You could make a notebook for your passages to annotate and set whatever passage you want as an anchor to the note. That notebook could have hundreds or thousands of passges. It would be great for you to just use Logos notes exclusively for six months and if you are not comfortable then go back to what you do now. Once you crack Logos notes I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Yep, I'd use a spreadsheet (or associated database):
- You'll want to add columns later, and re-organize. Guaranteed.
- You'll want to group by, labels, tags, etc
- You'll want to export segments into your paper.
But just me, I'd use LiquidText for informal analysis/research.
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I started something like your talking about in Personal Books... I have one such book that I keep track of things like that... And I admit... it's short sighted a bit... but it does work on my computer for now....
If ever.... and again I say if... Logos ever make Personal Books usable on Mobile.. I would love it.
I do wish... the users of Logos would ban together and let Logos know why they don't use such and such function... It is really not being negative.... and you don't have to be angry...
But if Logos don't know....then they keep on with what they have, not knowing any difference....
Start a new Thread...and let's support each other to make a great Bible program that we pay for..... better! Please!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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I'd use Notes in Verbum but you could settle for Logos [:D]
Seriously, the Notes tool looks scary but is actually easy to use and quite powerful. The pieces missing in 8 are implemented in 9 - it still has room to grow but no longer feels incomplete.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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JT (alabama24) said:
I am trying to figure out if there is a good solution in Logos, or if I would need to utilize a third party app.
The notes tool in Logos overwhelms me and I never use it. If anyone thinks it is good and can convince me, I am willing to listen.
I don't use Notes! But I think it would be best for your project to keep the material in Logos. You can easily access your project (Notebook) and any passage (by Filter or Search). However, Export is pathetic as it omits the passage references. Performance should be OK for hundreds of passages but may diminish for multiple projects and thousands of passages.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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JT (alabama24) said:
I think what I would really like is the ability to have an annotated passage list. My current thought is to use a spread sheet app to create columns. Is there any means in Logos to create something like this? The performance would need to be good as I intend to have hundreds of passages.
It looks like you are planning a series of passage, with:
- the reference
- a short summary and the actual verses
- some notes
This is straightforward in the Logos Notes tool - and you could add tags if you wish
Any thoughts as to whether this falls down for what you are wanting to do?
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Graham Criddle said:
Any thoughts as to whether this falls down for what you are wanting to do?
Thanks Graham. The problem is that the notes tool is so utterly cluttered. This is really what I want:
IRL I can get claustrophobic in crowds. Only partially kidding, I feel the same way with the notes tool.
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Dave Hooton said:
But I think it would be best for your project to keep the material in Logos.
I want to agree, which is why I took the time to post.
Dave Hooton said:You can easily access your project (Notebook) and any passage (by Filter or Search).
All of this is hidden from me. Nothing about notes is "easy."
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xnman said:
I started something like your talking about in Personal Books...
For this project, a "personal book" might be a good place for things to go once I am done to get them back into logos... but getting the notes back into Logos isn't really my concern at this stage.
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DMB said:
Yep, I'd use a spreadsheet (or associated database):
- You'll want to add columns later, and re-organize. Guaranteed.
- You'll want to group by, labels, tags, etc
- You'll want to export segments into your paper.
Yes to all of this.
DMB said:But just me, I'd use LiquidText for informal analysis/research.
I will look it up.
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JT (alabama24) said:
I can get claustrophobic in crowds
Logos has accounted for that: claustrophobia.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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JT (alabama24) said:
Nothing about notes is "easy."
Actually much about notes is easy - I was a late adopter because I thought the tool was complex. It isn't -- but you will never learn that if you don't try it on a project like this.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Logos has accounted for that: claustrophobia.
It opened a blank page. I like it! [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:
you will never learn that if you don't try it on a project like this
Where do I begin? Seriously, it is so overwhelming. I also would need to know how to create a decent layout.
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OK. Here is potentially an acceptable layout. I want to create a note on Genesis 1:26-27. I do NOT want a visual note in the Bible (I am not using notes like I would create notes in the margin of my bible. I am not looking for these notes to be discoverable in the resource, only in my project). How do I create this note?
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Do you want them all in a single notebook or do you want to use tags to collect them? Personally, I use notebooks for projects.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
single notebook or do you want to use tags
I think I found the answer on how to create a note, but to answer your question, presumably both. This is a project, so I would want all notes from this project automatically grouped. The use of tags would be helpful because I will want to classify passages based on topics.
I will be posting another screenshot shortly.
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In the screenshot below, some questions:
- In the blue box, I want to see only the reference. Is there a way to get rid of the additional text?
- In the red box, I need the text larger. I can't see a way to do so.
- In the green box, the note has created a "note indicator" in the Bible. I do not want this. How do I delete it and make sure new ones aren't created? Oh, I also think a highlight was created. I do not want that either.
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Why isn't "reference" (see red box) something I can sort by?
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One time requirement for using a notebooks (this part is not obvious)
- Open left side bar
- Select notebooks
- select new notebook
- name your notebook
- close left side bar by clicking on the toggle switch you started with
If your note icons appear in your Bible, simply turn them off in all resources through the visual filter tool. Or set the icon to no icon as I do below:
Setup that will persist unless you change it:
A. select the no icon for the icon slot
B. select the notebook created above
For notes:
1. In you Bible select your verse
2. Hit New Note (can be done through Context Menu as well)
3. Type in note
4. Select next verse and repeat.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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JT (alabama24) said:
Why isn't "reference" (see red box) something I can sort by?
I don't know but when I sort by notebook, it sorts by reference as well.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Re:blue box
Notes uses the first line of your note as if it were a title. I've not tried to get rid of it so I don't know the answer
Re: red box
I believe the default note text font and size controls that.
Re: green box
Set the note icon and the highlight icon both to the circle with a slash through it and you'll have no marker in your text. You currently have a t and a yellow A in these.
Tagging is on the bottom of the note panel and works like tagging in the library.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:JT (alabama24) said:
Why isn't "reference" (see red box) something I can sort by?
I don't know but when I sort by notebook, it sorts by reference as well.
There is a “reference” option (see screenshot), but it is grayed out.
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As for the scripture size: it is not the same size as the note.
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JT (alabama24) said:
There is a “reference” option (see screenshot), but it is grayed out.
One of the not-so-intuitive features of notes. You have to use the drill down list. You can use Reference/Bible or Bible-Book/* and from there you get the option to sort by reference.
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Morgan said:
You have to use the drill down list. You can use Reference/Bible or Bible-Book/* and from there you get the option to sort by reference.
Yes, thanks!
Morgan said:One of the not-so-intuitive features of notes.
To say the least!
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MJ. Smith said:
Notes uses the first line of your note as if it were a title. I've not tried to get rid of it so I don't know the answer
They need to have a title field then... and allow references to auto populate by preference.
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JT (alabama24) said:
They need to have a title field then... and allow references to auto populate by preference.
That is a common suggestion which I'm sure is on feedbear somewhere.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I believe the default note text font and size controls that.
For clarification: You believe that the only control for this is found in program settings, and that the default note text should control it. Right? It is not doing so on my Mac. Compare my settings screenshot, the note document font/size, the scripture text, and the note text.
I created a BUG THREAD.
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In Notes.... I have not found a way to do a multi-column note. I have played with notes and use them now... but don't know a way to have a multi-column note....
But with Excel and Word... you can have multi-columns. and the process to make a Personal Book is easy... and once that is done...then you can search, etc. in Logos and have all your information within your Bible program... which I like. Like I said... I do something kind of like you're wanting to do...
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
But with Excel and Word... you can have multi-columns.
Multi-columns isn't a deal breaker for me... However I do like the layout I showed earlier in my spreadsheet.
I'm going to spend a few days trying to see if notes can provide a GREAT option for me. I don't want to settle for "making it work." I will have to find it to be better than the spreadsheet option.
xnman said:have all your information within your Bible program.
I don't know if I fully addressed this, but here is my 2¢...
There are notes which are like the ones I used to create in the margins of my bible. Up to this point, even if I don't have notes mastered, I could create a note and have a note indicator placed in my bible at any given reference. That is NOT the point of my current project.
I am trying to create notes for a project where I hope to write. My writing will be done in Scrivener, a tool designed for writing at length. I have spent some time trying to see if I could make my notes in that app... and have come to the conclusion that I can't for this portion of my writing. Once my research is done, I will move the portions I need into Scrivener and write away. Hopefully. [:)]
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JT (alabama24) said:
In the screenshot below, some questions:
- In the blue box, I want to see only the reference. Is there a way to get rid of the additional text?
- Yes- for the "anchor" text, select the hamburger menu at the top right and uncheck "show full reference text"
2. In the red box, I need the text larger. I can't see a way to do so.
- Program settings> Text Display> Note Font or Note Text Size
3. In the green box, the note has created a "note indicator" in the Bible. I do not want this. How do I delete it and
make sure new ones aren't created?
- In the top of the note bar select the icon drop down and choose the circle with the line through it. Note will keep the last used icon until you change it- I believe.
4. Oh, I also think a highlight was created. I do not want that either.
- Change the highlight in the drop down next to the icon drop down
As far as sorting by reference, you can only do that in the "Notebook List (first column). I have a feedbear request to change this. If I find it I'll post a link.
Another issue is the search box in the Notes Tool is useless-undeveloped for searching for text within notes. The regular search tool will however find highlights
Hope this helps
Too soon old. Too late smart.
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Don't know if you'd like it, but maybe someone watching the thread would be interested in "Full Preview Mode." Turns your notes into a scrolling view, one after the other, but there's no editing while in it. Exit by Hitting "Done" in the top right corner.
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Bill said:
Yes- for the "anchor" text, select the hamburger menu at the top right and uncheck "show full reference text"
Thanks Bill! However, that isn't the text I want to delete. See the screenshot again and look for the blue box.
Bill said:Program settings> Text Display> Note Font or Note Text Size
That did not change the size of the scripture in the anchor, only the note itself.
Bill said:In the top of the note bar select the icon drop down and choose the circle with the line through it. Note will keep the last used icon until you change it- I believe.
Thanks!
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Morgan said:
Turns your notes into a scrolling view, one after the other, but there's no editing while in it.
That may be helpful in the future. Thanks!
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I'm a bit surprised that no one has suggested using Clippings. It lets you change the font size of the selected text and of any notes you make about the text independently. It doesn't leave a marker in the document from which you made the clipping. You can add a tag in addition to the notes to the clipping you made. Maybe there are some deficiencies for what you want, but it's worth taking a look at and considering.
For God and For Neighbor
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Thanks JBR! I'll take a look.
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JT:
Have you looked into Zettelkasten method?
maybe you can modify available notes apps that you have to use such system.
https://zettelkasten.de/introduction/
https://zettelkasten.de/posts/overview/
Maybe you can apply the Zettel in Word and then turn it into a PB so that is within the L9 system.
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JBR said:
I'm a bit surprised that no one has suggested using Clippings
I use Clippings for my Bible Study group, but the Search is rudimentary in terms of linking to the actual word(s) or tags. The Notes are standalone, thankfully. But Faithlife have indicated that they want to integrate it with the Notes tool, which is not a pleasing thought.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
But Faithlife have indicated that they want to integrate it with the Notes tool, which is not a pleasing thought.
Once again, I'm on the minority side -- I can't wait for clippings to be integrated with Notes. I've essentially quit using Clippings because they are not integrated.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Once again, I'm on the minority side
But certainly not alone. I've started creating sermon docs to compile 'clippings' and my own annotations together since clippings don't integrate with notes for my own annotations. I hope Faithlife gets this integration done in 10.
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Just discovered problem... which I should have remembered. Notes don't have fine control on mobile. I will need to make the anchors resource specific else have them shown in EVERY one.
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I think I'm the odd ball ..... In notes I use links.... it keeps the note smaller... Clippings would bloat notes big time... IMHO.
I played with clippings... and best I find of them... is to quickly make a file (clipping card) and throw clippings in as I'm going through different books in a study. I think that's handy... but I don't use them other than that and once I've settled my study... I delete them.
And I'm probably missing something ... [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
Clippings would bloat notes big time... IMHO.
Notes in Clippings can be extensive compared to notes in the Notes tool. Is that what you mean?
xnman said:best I find of them... is to quickly make a file (clipping card) and throw clippings in as I'm going through different books in a study. I think that's handy... but I don't use them other than that and once I've settled my study... I delete them.
And I'm probably missing something ...
You are a Notes person. Using links to keep them small does not suit my use of clippings where I use links for (small) bible passages should I need to read them. My notes are not sermons but they keep me focused on difficult topics/passages.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:xnman said:
Clippings would bloat notes big time... IMHO.
Notes in Clippings can be extensive compared to notes in the Notes tool. Is that what you mean?
Yes.... thanks for the clarification.
Dave Hooton said:xnman said:best I find of them... is to quickly make a file (clipping card) and throw clippings in as I'm going through different books in a study. I think that's handy... but I don't use them other than that and once I've settled my study... I delete them.
And I'm probably missing something ...
You are a Notes person. Using links to keep them small does not suit my use of clippings where I use links for (small) bible passages should I need to read them. My notes are not sermons but they keep me focused on difficult topics/passages.
Yes... I am a Notes person and use Notes a lot to help me remember what I studied in a passage, to help keep me on track when I am studying a passage... and as such... I have extensive study chains in Notes such as... Holy Spirit.... Godhead... etc and etc. I can go to a topic... which I have listed in Note0... and from there go through a study chain in my Bible using Notes.... and the beauty of this for me.... is that I can do this on my computer, phone, tablet...etc.
That is one thing that sold me on Logos. I can edit Notes in one device... use it on all devices.. I am hoping one day to be able to do that with Personal Books... [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Dave Hooton said:JBR said:
I'm a bit surprised that no one has suggested using Clippings
I use Clippings for my Bible Study group, but the Search is rudimentary in terms of linking to the actual word(s) or tags. The Notes are standalone, thankfully. But Faithlife have indicated that they want to integrate it with the Notes tool, which is not a pleasing thought.
I am curious how you collect, store, and utilize clippings.Personally, clippings are where good thoughts go to die. An individual document can quickly get over run with so many notes that it’s difficult to find and/or synthesize what I’ve collected. They’re not tagged and the search function is so rudimentary that it’s pretty useless. It’s nearly impossible to easily get the info out of the clipping/clipping note for a sermon (in sermon builder or Word). Notes and clippings “joining forces” just seems like a natural alliance, especially since the ability to filter note types (notes vs highlights, refrence, anchors, tags, etc) has improved so much.
p.s. sorry this may be off topic of the original question, so if there is another more appropriate thread please let me know 👍
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Josh Moore said:
p.s. sorry this may be off topic of the original question, so if there is another more appropriate thread please let me know
Not as far as I am concerned! I have started down a path since I asked the question initially, but I am willing to keep thinking about it. At some point, however, you have to jump in the water!
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My thoughts below are not about how best to use the various tools (Notes, Tags, Clippings etc.). My thoughts are how to organize the knowledge you gain from a topic that you plan to explore.
Broadly speaking, all of my thoughts are put in 3 broad bins: Definition, Causes, and Consequences.
Let's take "good works," which is something that came up in another thread on what is needed to be saved.
You can think of "Causes" as factors or determinants that happen BEFORE you do good works. There are many usually for a given topic.
You can think of "Consequences" as those that result AFTER you do good works. Typically, there are many consequences
The Before-After is hopefully captured by this graphic: Causes ==> Good works ==> Consequences
Moreover, I find it is easier to think in terms of Questions and Answers (Thomas Aquinas style). It helps me remember better.
Here are some questions that comes to my mind in the 3 bins.
1. Definition: What is good works? What is not good works? (this should help mark the boundaries of what is considered good works from the previous question) What are examples of good works? (this should help visualize the definition)
2. Causes: What is the role of God in the good works we do? What is our role in the good works we do? Each of the question can have sub-questions.
3. Consequences: When we do good works, how are we affected? how are the recipients affected?
Today, I had a Computer Science freshman come in and talk to me (a finance professor). He is going to help me out in my research. So I had to condense what we do a researchers with a simple framework without getting technical. I used the same causes-consequences framework to get through to him. As a finance professor, instead of "good works", I will research a finance topic instead. I'll be using different tools, but the organizing principles, I feel, are the same regardless of what you are researching.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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1Cor10:31 said:
My thoughts below are not about how best to use the various tools (Notes, Tags, Clippings etc.). My thoughts are how to organize the knowledge you gain from a topic that you plan to explore.
Broadly speaking, all of my thoughts are put in 3 broad bins: Definition, Causes, and Consequences.
Let's take "good works," which is something that came up in another thread on what is needed to be saved.
You can think of "Causes" as factors or determinants that happen BEFORE you do good works. There are many usually for a given topic.
You can think of "Consequences" as those that result AFTER you do good works. Typically, there are many consequences
The Before-After is hopefully captured by this graphic: Causes ==> Good works ==> Consequences
Moreover, I find it is easier to think in terms of Questions and Answers (Thomas Aquinas style). It helps me remember better.
Here are some questions that comes to my mind in the 3 bins.
1. Definition: What is good works? What is not good works? (this should help mark the boundaries of what is considered good works from the previous question) What are examples of good works? (this should help visualize the definition)
2. Causes: What is the role of God in the good works we do? What is our role in the good works we do? Each of the question can have sub-questions.
3. Consequences: When we do good works, how are we affected? how are the recipients affected?
Today, I had a Computer Science freshman come in and talk to me (a finance professor). He is going to help me out in my research. So I had to condense what we do a researchers with a simple framework without getting technical. I used the same causes-consequences framework to get through to him. As a finance professor, instead of "good works", I will research a finance topic instead. I'll be using different tools, but the organizing principles, I feel, are the same regardless of what you are researching.
I really like this for my studies. Your method is going to be very helpful. Thank you, 1C.
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