Has Faithlife stated a policy on The Future, Discontinuing Books, Wokeness, Etc?

Hi Folks:

I'm not sure what sub forum this belongs on so I stuck it here. Tonight as I was getting ready to purchase some more Logos books to add to my collection that numbers thousands, I have a few things that bother me.

1. Am I correct that the books we have purchased are permanent, that is Logos or the publishers cannot break the license? The reason I ask is that if our country continues to slide downward, is it possible that some of the books I have in my collection could be 'banned' as hate speech and removed from my collections (as an example). Has Faithlife commented on that anywhere?

2. If a publisher decided to go in and revise its books to change things to what I would consider to be a less biblical position, I assume Logos would not have to update its books? Example: recently Eerdmans is a publisher that I have a lot of books with. They made some statements that seem to put traditional biblical beliefs on several issues in a bad light. If (just as an example) they decided to remove certain books from sale, we would get to keep our books right?

3. I purchased every new version of Bibleworks that came out for many years. I had hundreds of books also in my Wordsearch software and they are both gone now. Has Faithlife written or discussed anywhere what might happen to our licenses/software if they were ever to go out of business? (I've bought enough through them to keep them in business for a while lol but it is a worry).

I sometimes find myself purchasing a book I really like on Logos and also a hard copy that I can always have. I know we should never 'put all our eggs in one basket' but has Logos/Faithlife ever discussed any of these issues? I'm not interested in arguing politics. If you have any links or can point me to where I can find information on these questions (if available) I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks, Matthew

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MJ. Smith

Am I correct that the books we have purchased are permanent, that is Logos or the publishers cannot break the license?

You are correct.

some of the books I have in my collection could be 'banned' as hate speech and removed from my collections (as an example). Has Faithlife commented on that anywhere?

Aren't Christian books and hate speech mutually exclusive? No, Faithlife has not commented on that.

If a publisher decided to go in and revise its books to change things to what I would consider to be a less biblical position, I assume Logos would not have to update its books?

What Logos sells is a particular edition in which they will not even correct typos that are in the printed edition without permission of the publisher. Changes in text are usually a new edition and have no effect on the previous edition(s),

they decided to remove certain books from sale, we would get to keep our books right?

Just as you do with physical books - I've never heard of a publisher trying to get all copies of a book recalled although it would make a marvelous Monty Python skit.

Has Faithlife written or discussed anywhere what might happen to our licenses/software if they were ever to go out of business? (I've bought enough through them to keep them in business for a while lol but it is a worry).

I have also never heard of a company issuing statements as to their plans should they go out of business - only the path forward when they are going out of business. Note that with WordSearch your resources were retained, being taken over by another company. With BibleWorks your resources were simply dropped. My parents had records that could only be played with a reed needle ... none of their children cared enough to maintain the old technology. On the other hand, I cared enough to maintain typewriter ribbons for typewriters from the 1920's. Its all a matter of your motivation and the market. I assume that Faithlife would be purchased by another company at least within my lifetime ... but then I've been retired for a decade.

Robert M. Warren

Regarding 'hate speech': The definition is intentionally fluid. Tyrants typically hijack language first. We Yanks could be on the precipice of the 'Cole Porter' stage of Constitutional evolution ('anything goes').

Regarding stealth edits of electronic books: There is a recent precedent. While we know FaithLife isn't Amazon, some might remember when (now former) Baptist author Beth Moore decided to be Winston Smith For A Day and edit the Kindle version of a book she had written several years earlier. My understanding is the action was taken without any notification to current licensees.

Ken McGuire

Just to potentially throw gasoline on this fire, while it is normal for when the text changes in a work for there to be a new edition, there have been times where this practice has not been followed. The biggest example I can give in Logos is the text of the ESV bible. The publishers have updated/changed the base text over the decades and the Logos edition has made the same changes, which means that the text of my ESV bible now in Logos is not the same as it was about twenty years ago when I first got it in Libronix.

Kathleen Marie

I have had many books edited and some books removed from my Amazon account. Amazon is supposed to offer a refund for the books removed, but that does not always happen. I purchase from Faithlife with the understanding that is likely to happen with them also at some point, and maybe that it already has happened.

One thing I have realized over time is that when a feared thing happens, that feared thing does not happen in isolation of other changes. Often the feared thing does occur, but I often don't care because so much else changed in my life at the same time. That feared thing is often irrelevant or no longer needed, and almost always insignificant in comparison to the other changes.

By the time Faithlife falls apart, basic access to wifi and control over our computers will likely be a bigger issue for us. Many of us will no longer have a way to access whatever is left in our Faithlife accounts. And we will be living different lives that revolve around a changed internet and different kinds of devices designed to connect to that changed internet.

God is in control. He does not burden us with knowledge of the future that we cannot bear, and we can trust our daddy to prepare us for that time without fully disclosing what is going to happen to us. The Bible warns us to live for today and not to hoard or worry about the future.

I have realized that I only need access to my Faithlife account when I am living a lifestyle that is like running on a hamster wheel. When I get thrown off my wheel and start living a less sheltered and caged life, I have all that I need for that time. God keeps me supplied with the tools for each task He assigns.

I just made another cross country move and my life is in upheaval and I am just watching God do what He does. He is setting me up for my next task. I have lost old tools and I am being gifted new ones. Nothing entrusted to us is ours. It all belongs to God and He will distribute those items and access and opportunities where He thinks they are most needed.

Pharaoh demanded that the Israelite slaves make bricks without supplying the needed straw. Jesus told us that His burden is light, and it is. His burden only feels heavy when we are trying to complete tasks that were never assigned to us. We can trust that the necessary tools will always be supplied for the tasks assigned.

DMB

Just for the (forum) record:

- The problem of digital books as been discussed, and discussed (and discussed). It's not a new issue for Logosians. Some have even died already, without having seen the Logos 'resurrection'.

- Bob (head of the company) has also commented multiple times (usually with lengthy writeups). His basic point: Faithlife is sufficiently large, that any unforeseen crash, would be covered by another interested party (the assets have significant value).

- The company itself is unbelievable reluctant to take many chances. They do try this and that. But they don't appear to risk too much. I think Bob learned the almost-went-bankrupt lesson decades back. I clearly remember the Christmas Eve masacre (financially unloaded employees quickly, to put it nicely).

- Now, book write-overs (re-issueing books by the publisher, and Faithlife writing over a customer's licensed book) ... that's an open issue (as far as I know). It's why, if this is a risk to a customer, 2 computers work great. One to download. The other off-line.

But my opinion, in terms of 'theological risk', a next-owner is the main risk. Bob and the other top leaders have been quite adept at theologically calming the waters (internal and external). But a new owner would be a new equation. It's like getting new neighbors ... that own your house.

scooter

But a new owner would be a new equation. It's like getting new neighbors ... that own your house

Good one, Denise. This is my major concern. New owner might want to institute a mandatory monthly rental fee, for example.

Paul

Hello everyone,

I appreciate the insights shared in this discussion and wanted to bring attention to some recent developments at Faithlife that might further contextualize our concerns.

Leadership Change: As some of you might already know, there has been a significant leadership change at Faithlife. Co-founder Bob Pritchett has transitioned to the role of Executive Chairman, and Vik Rajagopal has been appointed as the new CEO. Moreover, the majority shares of Faithlife are now owned by Cove Hill Partners (Information source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithlife_Corporation, and https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Faithlife-EI_IE888280.11,20.htmr).
Permanency of Licenses: This discussion has raised valid points regarding the permanency of our licenses, especially in light of the recent leadership change. It's comforting to know that our books are stored locally, as mentioned in a previous discussion on this forum3.
Contingency Plans: The concerns regarding what might happen to our libraries and licenses if Faithlife were to face operational challenges are indeed pertinent. It's a reality we've seen with other platforms in the past, and having a clear understanding of Faithlife's contingency plans would be reassuring.
Engagement with the User Community: The engagement and communication between Faithlife and the user community are crucial, especially during times of change. It would be beneficial to have more transparent and open communication regarding any strategic shifts that might impact us as users.
Diversifying Platforms: Given the evolving nature of digital platforms, it might be wise to consider diversifying our digital libraries across different platforms such as Kindle and Accordance. This could provide a level of security and flexibility, ensuring continuous access to our resources regardless of the changes in a single platform.
Future Direction: Understanding the strategic direction Faithlife and Logos will be taking under the new leadership would also help in alleviating some concerns. Open discussions and official communications from Faithlife on this would be much appreciated.

This is a time of change, and having clarity on these aspects can help us make informed decisions regarding our investments in digital resources. I am keen to hear your thoughts on these matters and any additional information or insights you might have come across.

Thank you for engaging in this important discussion.

Paul

Hello everyone,

I appreciate the insights shared in this discussion and wanted to bring attention to some recent developments at Faithlife that might further contextualize our concerns.

Leadership Change: As some of you might already know, there has been a significant leadership change at Faithlife. Co-founder Bob Pritchett has transitioned to the role of Executive Chairman, and Vik Rajagopal has been appointed as the new CEO. Moreover, the majority shares of Faithlife are now owned by Cove Hill Partners (Information source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithlife_Corporation, and https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Faithlife-EI_IE888280.11,20.htmr).
Permanency of Licenses: This discussion has raised valid points regarding the permanency of our licenses, especially in light of the recent leadership change. It's comforting to know that our books are stored locally, as mentioned in a previous discussion on this forum3.
Contingency Plans: The concerns regarding what might happen to our libraries and licenses if Faithlife were to face operational challenges are indeed pertinent. It's a reality we've seen with other platforms in the past, and having a clear understanding of Faithlife's contingency plans would be reassuring.
Engagement with the User Community: The engagement and communication between Faithlife and the user community are crucial, especially during times of change. It would be beneficial to have more transparent and open communication regarding any strategic shifts that might impact us as users.
Diversifying Platforms: Given the evolving nature of digital platforms, it might be wise to consider diversifying our digital libraries across different platforms such as Kindle and Accordance. This could provide a level of security and flexibility, ensuring continuous access to our resources regardless of the changes in a single platform.
Future Direction: Understanding the strategic direction Faithlife and Logos will be taking under the new leadership would also help in alleviating some concerns. Open discussions and official communications from Faithlife on this would be much appreciated.

Thank you for engaging in this important discussion.

DMB

This is a time of change, and having clarity on these aspects can help us make informed decisions regarding our investments in digital resources. I am keen to hear your thoughts on these matters and any additional information or insights you might have come across.

I've always maintained multiple platforms, with the assumption that digital typically has a short half-life, and small businesses, even shorter. Your wiki reference would be good to be confirmed; Cove Hill Partners doesn't show Faithlife. But common-sense would dictate that original owners would want some type of buyout, to include managerial influence.

John

It's comforting to know that our books are stored locally,

The trend now is for all software to be sold as "services" rather than a product which you "own". You never have full control over any digitally encrypted content, whether it be music, video, or books. Whoever holds the encryption keys is in control. If and when the government decrees a book to be illegal, all companies will be required to comply or suffer the consequences.

It is a false comfort to have digitally encrypted resources stored locally, unless the ability to decrypt and use them is also controlled locally. With Logos it is not. Previous versions (Libronix 3, which I still use occasionally on Windows 7) had the ability to save an activation backup file, which could then be used to reinstall offline when necessary. That ability is now gone, so the end user does not truly "own" anything, but must request permission each time to access each resource.

it might be wise to consider diversifying our digital libraries across different platforms such as Kindle and Accordance

I like my Kindle, but I do not trust Amazon at all to protect my legal rights should my books become decreed as "hate speech". Accordance might be around in the future. Who knows? But I certainly would not recommend anyone invest money into what appears to be a rapidly sinking ship.

Matthew Friend

I have had many books edited and some books removed from my Amazon account. Amazon is supposed to offer a refund for the books removed, but that does not always happen.

Since I had originally posted this question, I have been doing 2 things on a monthly basis.

1. With Amazon there are ways to make a backup of the books. Some may have an issue with the method used to decrypt and make the backups but since I paid for the books and i would never share them with others I don't personally have a problem with it. I can easily foresee a day when conservative Christian books get dropped on Amazon. (I back them up as pdf's and other formats).

2. With Logos I have spent way, way to much on books. What I have been doing with Logos is I created a VM (Virtual Machine) in Windows (need the Pro version) with just Logos installed. Every month I update the books and software on it. It is very easy to make a backup/ copy of the VM. So in the event that Logos were to cease to exist, I can run the virtual machine in whatever version of Windows comes along. I can still run Windows 3.1 from the early 90's in a VM so I believe it is likely that I'll be able to run at least a VM for the remainder of my life (probably less than 20 years) if needed.

Matthew

John

I can run the virtual machine in whatever version of Windows comes along

That sounds good, but if the activation process is tied to hardware ID such as the processor, you will lose it if you ever need to get a new computer. Virtualization technology does not virtualize or hide processor ID or TPM as far as I know.

I do not know about Logos, but other software activation processes such as Microsofts use a combination of hardware ID's. Some, but not all can be virtualized.

Have you tested moving the VM to a different computer?

Bernhard

2. With Logos I have spent way, way to much on books. What I have been doing with Logos is I created a VM....

An easier way to backup Logos books is this one: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/124007.aspx . Using calibre you can convert the Word file to any ebook format. Obviously, this way you only keep the text of the book, no tagging etc.

(As this was originally posted by Mark, it's probably okay for me to remind people of this [:P] )

Mike Childs

I have used Logos since about 1991, when they bought the rights to the old Dallas Theological Seminary CDWORD program. So, that is over 30 years. I can honestly say that I have never lost a book that I bought from Logos Bible Software. I realize that there are changes in management and ownership. But I will trust them unless I find a strong reason not to do so. They have proven trustworthy.

Simon’s Brother

I could give a number of examples where FL had done some of these things.

But I will continue to invest in Logos resource. I do have a lot to loose in terms of earthly things when it comes to my Logos Library but as a Christian I lift my eyes up to my God where i put my faith in full confidence of the outcome.

Sean

I recently lost an entire box of hardcover books to termites. While it's true that there are legitimate concerns about the longevity of electronic resources, there are also a lot of ways you can lose physical books. That does give some perspective.