Logos 10 Will be released...

xnman said:

I go to Logos Search and this is what I get..

This is basically the same as mine. I had deselected the option to "match all word forms" in the panel menu which is why I only got results with "kings of" as opposed to "king of".

xnman said:

The Good News Translation" does not appear like it does in yours... which, as I have stated more than once.... implies to me that Search is not searching all my resources.... which hurst my confidence in Search....

We showed the results differently because my search window was set to By resource (where the full title of the resource is shown) as opposed to Ranked (which shows the abbreviated title). The different titles are shown below:

So there is nothing here that indicates your Search is not working. And I don't recall seeing specific examples where that was the case - as opposed to it not returning the results you were hoping for. If you do find some, please start a new thread and show that clearly as that would be concerning.

xnman said:

So.... I go to Google....  same search...

This is really what I was trying to understand - as it looks as though you were looking for some form of chart, which wasn't clear to me from your original question.

xnman said:

Now....  In Logos Search.... I have to "jump thru hoops" ... try to decipher hieroglyphics..  maybe even ask you on the forum... and maybe pray in all that.... to try and find an answer in my resources...  and as I showed earlier.... I have such a comparable chart in my resources... 

It does involve doing the right sort of search in the right place - so searching for a Table in a Media Search should do the job:

I know that involves being aware of the different search options. Personally I value the precision available in Logos for this sort of thing but I do recognise it does require a bit more work.

xnman said:

As to Factbook.....  I don't use it as I don't find it actually works for me in finding things I search for..... so why am I pestered with it?

I don't see how this is relevant to a discussion on Search - they are different things.

xnman said:

I am persistent to a fault.

Persistence is great - but, personally for me to be able to offer any suggestions about how to use Logos better it needs clarity about what a user is seeking to do.

Beloved Amodeo said:

I think you might be surprised with what you find.

That's a great point

Thank you, I missed that.

xnman said:

I think... I have shown that Logos Search ... 1. Is not easy to use.  2. That Logos Search could be easier.

I think you have shown that without specifying clearly what you are searching for then it doesn't return useful results!

Incidentally, I agree entirely that Logos Search could be easier, and I expect that most people would agree with that statement. But that doesn't mean it can't be a really helpful tool.

xnman said:

I didn't "grow up" with Logos Search..... I "grew up" in other Bible programs that had searches that worked for me... I don't have to "be loyal" to something that causes me grief to try to find something to help me study the Bible. 

I get that. For me it is not about loyalty, but using something that I find really useful. And I am sorry it is causing you grief.

David Wanat said:

But I think the option of choosing the default would improve the product for L10.

I've just gone back to look at your suggestion. Apologies, I missed it first time. I assume you are referring to where you said:

" I'd say having Logos 10 allowing a setting to choose whether "Search" or "Factbook" coming up first would be a better way to do things."

I get that - but the challenge, I think, is that that box isn't only used to initiate searches or a Factbook lookup

If I think of my most common uses for that box they are probably something like:

• Matthew 1:18-25 (where I want to open my preferred Bible to a particular location)
• Open NAC James (where I want to open a particular resource and want to be able to specify even of its title to determine it)

So with that box supporting many different usage patterns I'm concerned that a settable option would get rather complex (or not cover all the cases)

So I can't think of a better approach than is currently there - with the system trying to learn individual's usage patterns and adjust itself accordingly

(Although I personally think there are some issues with that algorithm but haven't been able to demonstrate / document it clearly enough for the development teams to be able to look at!)

DMB said:

But your background (and foreground?) is systems

Background yes, not so much at the moment!

DMB said:

- A highly contrasted Factbook icon

- A de-emphasized search icon that actually appears to simply be a decoration, and missed by many. And being connected to the text box, it's actually unrelated.

I tihnk that's a very valid point

DMB said:

- A text box that promises 2 choices: a search or a Bible lookup.

As it that!

DMB said:

My earlier point ... their UI isn't well thought out. Logos10 is a good opportunity for them.

And it will be fascinating to see what that brings.

My apologies for having forgotten this example.

xnman said:

which, as I have stated more than once.... implies to me that Search is not searching all my resources.... which hurst my confidence in Search....

I refuse to trust Faithlife tagging so I nearly always run a second search to verify the results of the first. I have never found unsearched resources. I have very occasionally found a corrupt index that needed to be rebuilt for results to appear but the cases I recall were related to disk failures. However, at first, I had trouble understanding my results because I:

• forgot the setting for match case
• forgot the setting for match all forms

Yes, those settings are hidden in the panel menu, something I've complained about for decades. They are a major stumbling block to learning to use the search.

xnman said:

to studying Logos Search....  which because of that.... I am using (Logos Search) less and less and going to "outside Logos" for searches.

I have always considered thinking through what I wish to search for and how to do it a fundamental step of research ... even back when I was dealing with library card catalogues, multiple specialized libraries, and physical books. My experience with Google has been that it often tries to "correct" a query to a more common related term and that the articles that actually address my actual question are on "page 10" of the results. But then I am asking questions about the Hebrew canon of the Kaifeng Jews or the Armenian apocrypha.

xnman said:

so why am I pestered with it? ... "forcing" something like Factbook on me.

Unfortunately, the only solution to this problem is changing your attitude towards it - something in your bailiwick not mine.  There are many aspects of Logos that I do not like or some that I almost find offensive. However, when I look at the market that Logos tries to reach, I can understand why they are as they are and admit that I might well have made the same design decisions. There is little software that this is not true of. I use Factbook very little because it lacks entries for the material I'm most interested in. The only places where it appears for me is (a) in search results in a section I keep closed and (b) in the context menu actions. I don't mind that.

xnman said:

with the Google Search and the Logos Search both searching for the same thing

In my mind, it is impossible to search for the same thing in Google as in Logos ... in Google I search for an unknown artificial intelligence interpretation of my query across the internet; in Logos I search for my precise query (with wiggle room I set) across a limited library of tagged resources. Fortunately, both have places where they are the best solution. I especially like Google for graphic visualizations and am totally dependent on it for hymns, art, poetry, and other expressions of the Bible and theology in regular life.

Wolfgang Schneider said:

It seems to me that users are mistaking the Go Box as a kind of Search tool and want it to do things which it was not meant to accomplish.

My assessment as well.

DMB said:

At least in Verbum, the 'Go' box says 'Enter Passage or Search'.  That seems simple enough, and exactly what I want

Logos has the same prompt

I think part of the problem, though is that the box does more than those two things::

So two possible options would be:

1. Update the prompt so it more accurately shows what is available from this box
2. Restrict the functionality to just those two things (and I don't think this is a good idea and I wouldn't expect Faithlife to go down this route)

Having said that (and I do think the text in the box should be changed) the bug Andrew discovered at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/209437/1219986.aspx#1219986 - and its resolution - I believe should go a long way towards addressing the issues people have with this box

DMB said:

At least in Verbum, the 'Go' box says 'Enter Passage or Search'.  That seems simple enough, and exactly what I want.  Plus a little Factbook icon next door that can easily be ignored until needed.

When the GO box was merged into the Command box, FL first referred to it as a universal box. I have requested the text be changed to include Command but got no user support or FL response.