Church History Themes Dataset
As a Verbum Now subscriber why would this be excluded in Logos 10? Now I'm questioning what other datasets are not included in Logos. Is there a comparison chart that shows that?
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Why do you think the Church History Themes dataset is not included in Logos?
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It's excluded as a Verbum Now subscriber. I was under the impression that something such as Church History Themes dataset would be included. Actually, it's not part of Verbum 10.
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Verbum Now doesn't include a few Logos-specific features. I think this comparison should be accurate: https://www.logos.com/compare/featuresets?productIds=228476,228483
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Thanks. Is there a way to separately purchase this dataset without buying the full fledged featured package?
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Ryan said:
Thanks. Is there a way to separately purchase this dataset without buying the full fledged featured package?
Not at the moment, sorry.
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Ryan said:
It's excluded as a Verbum Now subscriber. I was under the impression that something such as Church History Themes dataset would be included. Actually, it's not part of Verbum 10.
Well, Catholic History only goes back a few centuries, so not much to look at (joking).
Then, Verbum users only read the OT (YLT interlinear). Logos users only read the NT (YLT interlinear).
I can't imagine $50 more to turn to the NT.
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Having acquired the new Church History Themes resource, I can see very clearly that Catholics are not part of its target audience.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
Having acquired the new Church History Themes resource, I can see very clearly that Catholics are not part of its target audience.
I was wondering if I should upgrade from Verbum Full to Logos Full. I guess I won't.
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DMB said:
Well, Catholic History only goes back a few centuries,
We're trying very hard to get the early history back from those who are hijacking it and remolding it to meet their needs. [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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SineNomine said:
Having acquired the new Church History Themes resource, I can see very clearly that Catholics are not part of its target audience.
It's sad that Faithlife continues to do stuff like this--release features/resources that ignore that Catholic, Orthodox, Liturgical, Non-Evangelical, and/or Ecumenical Christians exist.
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Kiyah said:SineNomine said:
Having acquired the new Church History Themes resource, I can see very clearly that Catholics are not part of its target audience.
It's sad that Faithlife continues to do stuff like this--release features/resources that ignore that Catholic, Orthodox, Liturgical, Non-Evangelical, and/or Ecumenical Christians exist.
Yes. I can understand if a tool or resource is written for a specific denomination and presents it from that perspective. But if it's supposed to be viewed as for all Christians, it shouldn't do that.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
David Wanat said:
Yes. I can understand if a tool or resource is written for a specific denomination and presents it from that perspective. But if it's supposed to be viewed as for all Christians, it shouldn't do that.
It's not like Catholics care about church history or anything... smh (sarcasm)
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Kiyah said:SineNomine said:
Having acquired the new Church History Themes resource, I can see very clearly that Catholics are not part of its target audience.
It's sad that Faithlife continues to do stuff like this--release features/resources that ignore that Catholic, Orthodox, Liturgical, Non-Evangelical, and/or Ecumenical Christians exist.
Today more than ever it is possible to create ecumenical groups of scholars who work together and produce products that everyone can be fine with - much of academia works this way already, and resources like Wikipedia show that it isn't so difficult as long as you involve people from different backgrounds in the editorial and writing process. Faithlife has taken some steps in this direction... hoping it will soon become the default way of working. 🙏
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Kiyah said:SineNomine said:
Having acquired the new Church History Themes resource, I can see very clearly that Catholics are not part of its target audience.
It's sad that Faithlife continues to do stuff like this--release features/resources that ignore that Catholic, Orthodox, Liturgical, Non-Evangelical, and/or Ecumenical Christians exist.
In fairness to Faithlife, from what I read of it yesterday, this resource was written to be amenable to all of the L10 product lines, including the Orthodox.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Kiyah said:
It's not like Catholics care about church history or anything... smh (sarcasm)
Well, the Verbum Academic Pro definitely delivers church history. Oxford Handbooks. Goodness. I must admit, that's an area I walled off at maybe 450ce (anything after). But the volumes are really quite good; I had avoided Oxford, since they 'age out' by definition. But delivered cheaply, excellent. I had no idea who Maximus the Confessor was, and why he's significant. And them trying unsuccessfully to circle the doctrinal wagons, as the Muslim faith intruded in the east.
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I also got the Collegeville commentaries in the VAP package. Being stubbornly biased, I'd always refused Collegeville, in favor of New Jerome. And I assumed (incorrectly) that it largely favored Catholic doctrine/interests. Maybe it does, but from what I sampled, it's just short of New Jerome. Sticks to the data available, good logical connects, and good high-level generalizing. I assume older, but so are some of the other academic-ish commentaries.
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DMB said:
I assume older, but so are some of the other academic-ish commentaries.
The Collegeville in Verbum Academic Professional is the two volume New Collegeville, published in 2009.
It's 20 years newer than the New Jerome, which was published in 1989. [:)]0 -
TL Putnam said:
It's 20 years newer than the New Jerome, which was published in 1989.
Oh my. You point out the sad, sad (really sad) story of New Jerome's demise in Logos, where afterward, users search high and low across lonely deserts for old Libronix disks, to no avail.
But nice Collegeville is almost Logos 4! I already added him to my commentary multiview.
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DMB said:
story of New Jerome's demise in Logos, where afterward, users search high and low across lonely deserts for old Libronix disks, to no avail.
That was actually the 1968 original Jerome Biblical Commentary, not the NJBC. I was one of those users who used to keep half on eye on e-bay for disk resales of that package. Finally I gave up on it and bought a print copy of the JBC for under $10 from Abebooks a number of years ago.
Monday night, I was able to add the book to my Logos Print Library, and now I can search it from Logos! Very cool!
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John W Gillis said:DMB said:
story of New Jerome's demise in Logos, where afterward, users search high and low across lonely deserts for old Libronix disks, to no avail.
That was actually the 1968 original Jerome Biblical Commentary, not the NJBC. I was one of those users who used to keep half on eye on e-bay for disk resales of that package. Finally I gave up on it and bought a print copy of the JBC for under $10 from Abebooks a number of years ago.
Monday night, I was able to add the book to my Logos Print Library, and now I can search it from Logos! Very cool!
never occurred to me to try this. I have that book in hardcover
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
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John W Gillis said:
Monday night, I was able to add the book to my Logos Print Library, and now I can search it from Logos! Very cool!
Congratulations! Ghosts of Libby's past!
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David Wanat said:
never occurred to me to try this.
Me either. Now I have added Barclay's DSB to my "print library".
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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People new to Logos since 2012 could do the same for their pre-NABRE NAB, if they want to be able to search the 1970 NAB OT (with 1992 Psalter).
I'd think there'd be quite a few folks that would apply to, given how that time is about when the serious commitment to publishing Catholic works really took off, Verbum was established, etc.
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Well I went ahead and bought this. Disappointed it was not part of the Verbum Full Feature upgrade.
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SineNomine said:
In fairness to Faithlife, from what I read of it yesterday, this resource was written to be amenable to all of the L10 product lines, including the Orthodox.
So why wouldn't they include it in Verbum if this is the case? Is it somehow amenable to the Orthodox but not to Roman Catholics or even Easter Rite Catholics?
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Kiyah said:
So why wouldn't they include it in Verbum if this is the case?
Short version:
to know why it is not included you need facts
in order to get the facts, you need a detective
a well-known detective is Friday
on Fridays, Catholics abstain (traditionally from meat)
in order to help build the Church, FL helps Verbum users abstain
abstinence from CHT dataset meets the canonical requirements
Therefore, Verbum has no Church History Themes dataset.
Modeled after this any many other variants: Well, books are read, and magazines are read, too. Two plus two is four. Four times three is 12. There are 12 inches in a ruler. Queen Elizabeth was a ruler. Queen Elizabeth was also a ship. Ships sail in the sea. Fish swim in the sea. Fish have fins. Finns fought the Russians. Russians are always red. Fire engines are always rushin’. And THAT is why fire engines are red.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Kiyah said:
Is it somehow amenable to the Orthodox but not to Roman Catholics or even Easter Rite Catholics?
Yes, with one proviso: if Roman Catholics were a thing that actually existed, then yes, it presumably would not be amenable to them. (The term "Roman Catholic" is a rather problematic one.)
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:Kiyah said:
Is it somehow amenable to the Orthodox but not to Roman Catholics or even Eastern Rite Catholics?
Yes, with one proviso: if Roman Catholics were a thing that actually existed, then yes, it presumably would not be amenable to them. (The term "Roman Catholic" is a rather problematic one.)
I'm aware, but I was using Roman Catholic to distinguish between Western and Eastern Rite Catholics.
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Kiyah said:
Roman Catholic to distinguish between Western and Eastern Rite Catholics
I tend to use Western or Latin for this. there are other western rites still in use:
- Mozarabic Rite (Spain)
- Ambrosian Rite (Italy)
- Bragan Rite (Portugal)
- Liturgies of the Dominican, Carmelite, and Carthusian orders
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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SineNomine said:
Yes, with one proviso: if Roman Catholics were a thing that actually existed, then yes, it presumably would not be amenable to them. (The term "Roman Catholic" is a rather problematic one.)
This is certainly an area where the Church History Themes dataset could be improved. A good summary of the history and current uses of the term "Roman Catholic Church" is found here: Roman Catholic (term) - Wikipedia. In sum, it is not how Catholics normally call themselves, and the last time a document of the Magisterium used the term to refer to the Catholic Church was 72 years ago!! The term never appears in the Catechism, Vatican I, Vatican II, the Code of Canon Law, or the Council of Trent, etc.
And, "the terms "Romish Catholic" and "Roman Catholic", along with "Popish Catholic", were brought into use in the English language chiefly by adherents of the Church of England."
That being said... I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church... but that is just because I live in Rome. [:P] Before that I was a member of the Omahan Catholic Church.
But I just say "the Catholic Church." And, in that, I also follow standard English practice. As the Wikipedia article points out, "'Catholic Church' and 'Catholic(s)' is also broadly reflected in most English-language academia and media."
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Graham,
You posted this some time ago, so you may already know the answer.
Church History Themes were not included in the Verbum Feature Sets. You are looking at the standard ("Protestant" editions) Logos Feature sets.
Martin
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