Reformed Seminaries
Looking to pivot to a new seminary.
My first thought was Knox, which used to heavily advertise their partnership with Logos, and the extensive use of Logos in class for assignments, etc. I know they had some ... controversy there a number of years ago, are they back to being solidly reformed? Are they still deeply plugged into Logos? I don't think I've seen any advertisements recently.
The next few that come to mind are SBTS (I am SBC afterall), RTS in Orlando, and Puritan (Joel Beeke's Seminary). Maybe Columbia? Some say Midwestern is the other reformed SBC seminary. What else is out there? Trying to avoid liberty.
Regents maybe should be on the list, because I won't lose quite so many credits there, perhaps as many as 75% will transfer in.
Any recommendations or recent experiences? I really liked the advertised ideal of Knox and their logos integration.
Looking to finish my M.Div (5 classes short!). But not opposed to an MA in Missiology, or church planting etc. Even open to pastoral counseling programs.
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I'm also (for now, at least) SBC, and I can't highly recommend any of them. SBTS seems to be wandering in the wilderness, SWBTS is a guy falling down the stairs on an escalator, over and over, and MBTS is going Thomistic, it seems. SEBTS is a woke train-wreck and NOBTS is hard-core anti-reformed in many departments.
You might take a look at GBTS in Arkansas (the 'strip-mall seminary'), and Phoenix might be worth looking at as well, especially if you have interest in textual criticism. I don't know anything bad about RTS Charlotte, and Michael Kruger is a big plus there. I agree with avoiding Liberty.
There's a non-SBC Baptist seminary in Mansfield, TX, but I don't know much about it other than they have a couple of first-rate scholars on Baptist Covenant Theology.
Tough call right now. Best wishes finding a landing spot.
[NB: These are my opinions only, for the purpose of answering the OP's question. Don't violate forum rules because you don't like how I said something.]
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Thanks!I'm also (for now, at least) SBC, and I can't highly recommend any of them. SBTS seems to be wandering in the wilderness, SWBTS is a guy falling down the stairs on an escalator, over and over, and MBTS is going Thomistic, it seems. SEBTS is a woke train-wreck and NOBTS is hard-core anti-reformed in many departments.
You might take a look at GBTS in Arkansas (the 'strip-mall seminary'), and Phoenix might be worth looking at as well, especially if you have interest in textual criticism. I don't know anything bad about RTS Charlotte, and Michael Kruger is a big plus there. I agree with avoiding Liberty.
There's a non-SBC Baptist seminary in Mansfield, TX, but I don't know much about it other than they have a couple of first-rate scholars on Baptist Covenant Theology.
Tough call right now. Best wishes finding a landing spot.
That has been my impression and to a degree, my experience as well, and the reason why I'm exploring my options.
As a full time pastor, not having to relocate is a plus. SBTS seems like the best of the SBC right now, and I'm not fully sold on it.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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SBTS seems like the best of the SBC right now, and I'm not fully sold on it.
Tough call. There are moments I agree, and other moments I don't (thus the 'wandering' comment). MBTS may still be the lesser of several worrisome situations, or SBTS may be. Hall is out at SBTS, so things may stabilize there, some. I think Mohler is still trustworthy, but some of his team bothers me a bit.
I'm glad I'm not having to choose right now...it could cause some hair loss.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Blindness towards ones friends seems like the heart of the issue at southern, and is understandable. If not ideal or worth embracing.Tough call. There are moments I agree, and other moments I don't (thus the 'wandering' comment). MBTS may still be the lesser of several worrisome situations, or SBTS may be. Hall is out at SBTS, so things may stabilize there, some. I think Mohler is still trustworthy, but some of his team bothers me a bit.
I'm glad I'm not having to choose right now...it could cause some hair loss.
I'll look more closely at MBTS.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Have you checked out Redemption Seminary that is associated with Logos?
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I attended Knox circa 2016 - 2018, and I found it to be solidly Reformed.
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I have not checked out Redemption! I’ll look into that as well.
Thanks for the update on knox. I had read an article about a professor leading them in a more rome-ist direction, and some awkward hermeneutics in their John-revelation project. Hopefully that’s all in the past.
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They are reformed, but not everyone who attends there is. I attended there from 2013-2016 and would recommend them.
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rome-ist direction
Okay, you got me? What does this mean? I mean I can see Catholic-Orthodox direction (historical direction) but rome-ist?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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It was a new term by me. Apparently they had a professor that went to a "roman" seminary, that sort of kicked out a lot of the old guard that had been put in place by Dr. Kennedy. Without knowing the guys name, or the school involved, I can only assume they meant that the seminary had sort of un-reformed, or became more catholic. There are a bunch of articles about the "knox scandal".rome-ist direction
Okay, you got me? What does this mean? I mean I can see Catholic-Orthodox direction (historical direction) but rome-ist?
Perhaps you can make more sense of it than I have. The one behind it all has been gone since something like 2014 (if I remember right), though he was in charge in actuality if not in title and had hired the successors for many of those that he had gotten removed in his coup d'état.
I dont want to speak negatively of any seminary or any of those who hold to the positions that have/had supplanted those of its founding, but I also don't want to attend a seminary that is teaching something that is contrary to its stated positions, and my own convictions. Which it may not be doing according to what some of the other posters are saying.
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I also attended Knox around 2014-16. They were solidly Reformed. However, I felt that their pioneering fully-remote MABTS program was basically a self-study curriculum. It was mainly reading books, watching lecture videos, and writing papers (which then got graded by TA's who were mostly doctoral students studying in the UK).
The video lectures were mostly by professors who had since left the seminary already. The time zone difference and the limited technological options back then during the pre-Zoom era resulted in a lack of real / real-time interactions between student and professor / TA, which I told them was a major area needing improvement when I graduated.
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Which it may not be doing according to what some of the other posters are saying.
With the hint, I found appropriate articles pro/con. Unfortunately, the main articles I found on one side were filled with ignorance and language inappropriate for a serious discussion. All this left me not understanding what the fuss was really about other than throwing buzz words around without understanding. But this left me appreciating my bent towards ecumenical seminaries such as the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Imagine a seminary claiming to love ancient sacred art, and yet hiring all iconoclastic teachers, who are actively smashing pieces of ancient sacred art in class. I would have a hard time attending there too because of the cognitive dissonance feeling a bit like a lack of integrity.Which it may not be doing according to what some of the other posters are saying.
With the hint, I found appropriate articles pro/con. Unfortunately, the main articles I found on one side were filled with ignorance and language inappropriate for a serious discussion. All this left me not understanding what the fuss was really about other than throwing buzz words around without understanding. But this left me appreciating my bent towards ecumenical seminaries such as the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley.
Exact issue aside, I just left one institution with a disconnect between publicly stated positions, and those privately held and taught by the faculty.
Plus with R.C. Sproul being part of the group that resigned from Knox in protest, I would have to have a lot more assurance that things are ok before committing my resources there.
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I lost all respect for RTS Orlando when they asked Bruce Waltke to resign over a video interview he'd done with BioLogos. (Read about the kerfuffle in Christianity Today here if you have CT in Logos. More on it here at Inside Higher Ed. The video itself is no longer online.)
I had Waltke for several classes at Regent College. (He continued teaching at Regent half the year and Reformed the other half the year until that resignation was forced on him.) He is a man of such integrity, credentials, and humility, and a deep man of prayer. Hearing his prayers at the opening of each class alone would have been worth all the tuition! He ventured to publicly say what many evangelicals have been thinking for years -- faith and science need not be at odds with each other -- and it caused RTS to freak out. No no, cannot allow people to actually use their brains. Such a shame.
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He is part of the reason I looked into Regents, and is currently a professor at Knox if I remember right.
Edit: I havent seen much of Biologos outside of the occasional viral facebook post, but i haven't been a fan of a number of them.
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He is part of the reason I looked into Regents, and is currently a professor at Knox if I remember right.
Oh, you mean Regent (no 's'). Regent College is a fine seminary, and I can speak with some experience since I graduated from there in 2004.
It is true that Waltke was hired by Knox Theological Seminary right after the fiasco with RTS. But he is no longer there, not even as Emeritus. He was already 80 when that happened, and his wife had Alzheimer's, so he retired soon after, so as not to have to keep traveling away from her. His home base has been in Seattle area ever since he moved there from Vancouver to be closer to family. He's still listed as Emeritus on Regent College's website, though he no longer teaches there. There's a running joke that faculty never really retire from Regent; they keep on teaching as Emeriti, just for less pay. But he is really and truly retired from teaching now. He is 92. He still is involved in teaching ministry at the little Anglican church he attends in the Seattle area, and is still listed on their website as being part of their pastoral team. But I'm guessing he's doing very little of even that at his advanced age.
Anyway, back to Regent...
Regent is not a Reformed seminary, so if that's what you're looking for, it won't meet your needs. It is transdenominational, including faculty and students from various denominations, but it is evangelical (in the historic meaning, not the current politically charged one) and on the somewhat conservative side of that big tent, though they do have women faculty and women in the MDiv program preparing for ordination.
From their About page:
"Regent College was founded in 1968 as the first graduate school of theology in North America to make education of the laity its central focus. Our Christ-centred graduate programs and courses bring together vibrant evangelical faith and rigorous academics....
"Regent is truly transdenominational—welcoming students from all ends of the theological spectrum. As an institution, Regent is both evangelical and orthodox, but our first priority is to remain true to orthodox faith as recorded in the Scriptures.
"The College is home to some of the most influential theological thinkers and remains one of the world’s foremost graduate schools of Christian studies."
I don't know most of the current faculty so I can only say for sure they include at least Alliance, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, and likely several others. There have also been Mennonite, Pentecostal (Gordon Fee), Brethren, and others on faculty in the past. The point is, there is no confessional stance that places the college in one particular camp denominationally. Their statement of faith is modeled on that of the World Evangelical Fellowship. You can read about their Mission & Values here, and their Theological Position here.
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Reformed is my preference. But I went to a sort of catch all like that for my undergrad. Had a pentecostal woman pastor for my math class. Worst professor I've ever had... but that's a side issue. The missions guy was pentecostal and arminian, the dean of students (and greek prof) was reformed baptist, the bible prof was a dallas graduate, the prof who preached most often had his PhD from University of Fl in communications, but his BA from Wheaton, The theology prof was from princeton, wheaton, and one of the SBC schools. The old testament prof was from St. Andrews in scotland. Towards the end of my time there they hired a (conservative) Presbyterian too. It had been started as a CMA school, and went non-denominational at some point in the last 60 years. I took poetic books from a forum member here, who was the son in law of Dwight Pentecost and a Dallas Graduate.He is part of the reason I looked into Regents, and is currently a professor at Knox if I remember right.
Oh, you mean Regent (no 's'). Regent College is a fine seminary, and I can speak with some experience since I graduated from there in 2004.
It is true that Waltke was hired by Knox Theological Seminary right after the fiasco with RTS. But he is no longer there, not even as Emeritus. He was already 80 when that happened, and his wife had Alzheimer's, so he retired soon after, so as not to have to keep traveling away from her. His home base has been in Seattle area ever since he moved there from Vancouver to be closer to family. He's still listed as Emeritus on Regent College's website, though he no longer teaches there. There's a running joke that faculty never really retire from Regent; they keep on teaching as Emeriti, just for less pay. But he is really and truly retired from teaching now. He is 92. He still is involved in teaching ministry at the little Anglican church he attends in the Seattle area, and is still listed on their website as being part of their pastoral team. But I'm guessing he's doing very little of even that at his advanced age.
Anyway, back to Regent...
Regent is not a Reformed seminary, so if that's what you're looking for, it won't meet your needs. It is transdenominational, including faculty and students from various denominations, but it is evangelical (in the historic meaning, not the current politically charged one) and on the somewhat conservative side of that big tent, though they do have women faculty and women in the MDiv program preparing for ordination.
From their About page:
"Regent College was founded in 1968 as the first graduate school of theology in North America to make education of the laity its central focus. Our Christ-centred graduate programs and courses bring together vibrant evangelical faith and rigorous academics....
"Regent is truly transdenominational—welcoming students from all ends of the theological spectrum. As an institution, Regent is both evangelical and orthodox, but our first priority is to remain true to orthodox faith as recorded in the Scriptures.
"The College is home to some of the most influential theological thinkers and remains one of the world’s foremost graduate schools of Christian studies."
I don't know most of the current faculty so I can only say for sure they include at least Alliance, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, and likely several others. There have also been Mennonite, Pentecostal (Gordon Fee), Brethren, and others on faculty in the past. The point is, there is no confessional stance that places the college in one particular camp denominationally. Their statement of faith is modeled on that of the World Evangelical Fellowship. You can read about their Mission & Values here, and their Theological Position here.
I was raised Arminian & Landmark Baptist. Became amyraldian and landmark Baptist at my undergrad, and now - while attending an amyraldian school I'm more reformed Baptist (dropped the landmark all together). I think I could handle the interdenominational nature of Regent.
I'm not sure where I'll land at this point. But I'm definitely going to knock on Regent's door. Probably also Knox, RTS and others mentioned in the thread. Just to see what my options are. See what makes the most sense. It doesn't have to be reformed; even if that is my preference. I could always go to the local diploma mill. But I want it to have meant something when I'm done. Its been ten grueling years of my life so far. I don't want to not finish, and I don't want to pivot into something less than where I'm at. Some of the guys I went to school with advised me to just finish, and who cares that the school seems to have drifted. But I do.
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Hi abondservant...
If you didn't mind my asking (??) - as you are considering pivoting/changing to a new seminary - would it be for on-campus/in-person/face-to-face classes --or-- would you consider online/distance learning classes (?).
I think you implied (way) above "not having to relocate is a plus" - as likely (?) meaning an on-campus classes preference (?) -- but I thought I would ask (?).
Note: I'm not very familiar (at all!) with current seminary programs/etc - especially compared to others commenting on this topic.
But at least from a very quick/cursory glance at two or three seminaries recently (mainly just looking "for fun"), I thought that many (most?) now offered online/distance learning degree pathways.I realize and appreciate that many (from professors to students) often have very strong opinions/feelings regarding in-person instruction versus online instruction (and/or even hybrid combinations of the two). So, I'm certainly not trying to advocate for any method over the other.......
I appreciate the topic and the discussion on this - as I'm trying to learn some things along the way.... Thanks for bringing this up - and for everyone's comments/feedback....
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Almost for sure I'd need an online program.
I do prefer in person. But I don't think that will be a realistic option.
Even RTS (the closest option) is probably too far to take many classes in person. Some places have a hybrid setup where one day, or one week of the semester is in person, and the rest is online. I could probably do something like that at RTS Orlando.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Almost for sure I'd need an online program.
I do prefer in person. But I don't think that will be a realistic option.
Even RTS (the closest option) is probably too far to take many classes in person. Some places have a hybrid setup where one day, or one week of the semester is in person, and the rest is online. I could probably do something like that at RTS Orlando.RTS in Orlando has a good program, know several pastors in Central Florida who have benefitted from the On-line, Hybrid and in person programs, they all graduated and continued with ministry- look into it with open eyes and mind it is one of a small group of sem's still holding to the truth in the USA,
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MBTS is going Thomistic
keeping the post Faithlife related - MBTS does have a partnership with Logos (https://faithlife.com/mbts/activity)
As an alum (took classes, did not finish dissertation) from the Doctoral Studies department. I would ask readers to verify this accusation. Make your own decision. "going" is a hard accusation to prove.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = Logos10 on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet) & FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.
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I think I could handle the interdenominational nature
Graduated from https://www.moody.edu/grad/ Did all my graduate work in "modular" format. Chicago's 2 airports means flying in and out has many options. I lived close enough that I either drove or took the Train.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = Logos10 on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet) & FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.
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Seems like i read an article about an issue with inerrancy there. Was that overblown for the press? Or at least something thats been dealt with?I think I could handle the interdenominational nature
Graduated from https://www.moody.edu/grad/ Did all my graduate work in "modular" format. Chicago's 2 airports means flying in and out has many options. I lived close enough that I either drove or took the Train.
I think it was a Julie Roy article.
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Its not the first time I've heard someone say that. I have no first hand information though.MBTS is going Thomistic
keeping the post Faithlife related - MBTS does have a partnership with Logos (https://faithlife.com/mbts/activity)
As an alum (took classes, did not finish dissertation) from the Doctoral Studies department. I would ask readers to verify this accusation. Make your own decision. "going" is a hard accusation to prove.
Several of the SBC seminaries have at least some relationship with Faithlife, I think SEBTS attendance gets you the smallest academic package.
Knox (used to at least not sure if still) attendance would get you one of the larger packages, maybe standard portfolio. DTS had its own curated package for a while. Again, not sure if still.
Even if so (I encountered several students from my former seminary that were thomist, or molinist) I think I could handle it. I don't think any of that would sway me.
Its been on the short list for a long time. Not just because its only 2 hrs away. Its good to hear another whole-hearted endorsement though:)Almost for sure I'd need an online program.
I do prefer in person. But I don't think that will be a realistic option.
Even RTS (the closest option) is probably too far to take many classes in person. Some places have a hybrid setup where one day, or one week of the semester is in person, and the rest is online. I could probably do something like that at RTS Orlando.RTS in Orlando has a good program, know several pastors in Central Florida who have benefitted from the On-line, Hybrid and in person programs, they all graduated and continued with ministry- look into it with open eyes and mind it is one of a small group of sem's still holding to the truth in the USA,
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Almost for sure I'd need an online program.
I do prefer in person. But I don't think that will be a realistic option.I know Regent used to require that at least 1/3 of the credits be done in person on campus. But that might have changed with the pandemic. They pivoted (as did everyone) to entirely online when Covid hit. They've moved back to in-person classes, but I think they still offer the hybrid option for many of them.
But part of the Regent experience is the community there; participating in chapel/worship together, getting to know the professors in person, attending the Fall Retreat together, being in a community group, etc.
Most of us who studied at Regent got not just an education and credentials(degree), but had a life-transforming experience. Regent combines the academic with the lived experience of living out one's faith in the real world. I do think they are having a hard time getting back to the level of in-person community they had before Covid, but hopefully within the next year or that will get better and better. It also depends a lot on who is on faculty at any given time. In my era, there were people like Loren Wilkinson who with his wife Mary Ruth had created the ethos of "Soup Groups" (community group lunches together on Tuesdays after chapel). I think that is still going on now after his retirement. But I also think the college is probably not quite the same as when he was still there. I had a very treasured time there. But there are other wonderful newer faculty who bring their own special gifts to the place.
This is a lovely video showing the Wilkinsons' "Theology of Soup"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDKVf6zW_ZQ
And also getting back to Faithlife, there are a number of Faithlife employees who are Regent alums: Elliot Ritzema, Ben Amundgaard, perhaps others. As an early investor in Logos and friend of Bob Pritchett's from our Microsoft days, I had at one point tried to arrange a special discount on Logos packages for Regent students. It might have been going for a while when I was still a student (through 2004), but I doubt it's still going. But they now have a "Logos Academic Discount Program" where anyone able to prove their enrollment at an accredited school can receive a 30% discount.
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As a full time pastor, moving doesn't really work for me. Being in Florida makes something that far away an extra challenge.Almost for sure I'd need an online program.
I do prefer in person. But I don't think that will be a realistic option.I think they still offer the hybrid option for many of them.
But part of the Regent experience is the community there; participating in chapel/worship together, getting to know the professors in person, attending the Fall Retreat together, being in a community group, etc.
And also getting back to Faithlife, there are a number of Faithlife employees who are Regent alums: Elliot Ritzema, Ben Amundgaard, perhaps others. As an early investor in Logos and friend of Bob Pritchett's from our Microsoft days, I had at one point tried to arrange a special discount on Logos packages for Regent students. It might have been going for a while when I was still a student (through 2004), but I doubt it's still going. But they now have a "Logos Academic Discount Program" where anyone able to prove their enrollment at an accredited school can receive a 30% discount.
I was in bible college for 8 years, and seminary for 6 so far. Taking a slower pace because of the full time ministry involvement, and because of the need for a second job (shepherd of actual sheep).
I've made liberal use of the academic program, which I've been VERY grateful for.
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Almost for sure I'd need an online program.
For what it's worth, I seem to have had a different experience than PL did with Knox's online program. I had a lot of other demands on my time, so the fact that I could do most of the work independently when it fit into my schedule was a huge help. I found the on-line instructors responsive, and most would at least offer a couple of zoom sessions each class. That was several years ago, so I don't know how it's progressed. But for someone who needed to fit class work in on the subway, in airports and conference hotels, it was great.
I suspect we were just looking for different things in a seminar, so I don't intend to minimize any of PL's concerns. I just wanted to offer my perspective in case it might be helpful to someone.
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Seems like i read an article about an issue with inerrancy there.
MBTS had issues with this in the past (1980s), but under President Jason Allen the ship has been righted.
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Interestingly, I got a copy of Bible Study Magazine in the mail this week, with their rundown of seminaries for 2023.
Interesting! Thanks FL!L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Yeah, I thought they were stopping the print magazine...
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