*IMPORTANT* - New version numbers for Logos/Verbum software
Comments
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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) said:
As a result of the confusion, some people never updated their software to the latest version
Hi Mark,
You probably won't see this post among the sea of others here, but here is my two cents regarding customer confusion in updating and upgrading. My views are purely from a customer/user perspective.
- Software updates are important, but under the hood to the customer. I doubt that many care about version numbers, just make sure its up to date. I agree with automatic updates (let those who choose differently switch off), and the version number should still be available in "help" as it is now for tech support and our great forum VIPs when needed.
- Base Packages In my experience from 2009-L7 I was very confused, trying at first to figure out the difference between resources, books and features and tools, ect. and which of each I would get in which base package, (after L8 I finally learned most of the differences). Neither marketing or sales were very forthcoming in making sure a customer understood, for instance, if for example I were buying say a bronze base package, it did not include Sermon Builder or a full feature set. I don't believe many people are looking for these separately because they are thinking they are part of the software. When customers think base package they think "books" and a software upgrade. The fact that certain tools and features are area a separate thing and different depending on the base package is very confusing.
- One more thing that I see adding to this package confusion. Customers thinking they have to purchase a package to get the latest version of Logos software will sometimes buy the lowest price package, because they don't want many books and are disappointed because they don't get all of the tools and features they assumed came with the latest version of the software. They are also disappointed later to find out they could have gotten the software upgrade free at a later date. The free version should be available to everyone as soon as the new release becomes available and not delayed.
- Feature Sets Many customers also don't know what features set are, what's in them, what they do, and why they need them to perform certain functions and use certain tools in the software. I still don't understand them completely myself, but I know I better have them. I also think (my opinion) most average users/customers don't understand what they are either. These features also include tools like sermon builder. As a customer when when watching a video on all the new FEATURES in Logos10, I'm thinking to myself Look at all the new stuff in Logos SOFTWARE and not paying proper attention that it is a feature or to look for it in the feature set list in each package to make sure it and other tools/features I want are included in the package I'm buying, because these are features and not part of the software as one may expect.I realize some of this is redundant. Interlinears is another issue. Bible is a book, IL and RI is a feature- combine them as a book already please.
- One solution to this may be to list the features of each base package at the top of the "what's included" list instead of at the bottom and title it "Important Features Included in This Package" or something similar.
The bottom line is as a customer I would be more confused and potentially upset about base packages and feature sets than version numbers
Hope this is helpful and not adding more confusion to the confusing confusion already running amuck
Thanks [:D]
Too soon old. Too late smart.
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DMB said:
Just minutes ago, Andrew had to list out missing features the customer didn't know they didn't have. And for good reason ... there's no clue in the software about the 'features' (absent scanning nerdy credentials).
FWIW, that's something that's been on my mind. It's something I want to improve, but we also don't want to annoy customers with buttons that don't work, or explanations of missing functionality that feel like ads.
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Bill said:
The bottom line is as a customer I would be more confused and potentially upset about base packages and feature sets than version numbers
Thanks, Bill. I agree that we can do a better job in communicating to customers what features are included at the different levels. We'll certainly work on improving that before Logos 11 comes around.
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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) said:
That's not a bad thing. We don't want you to have to remember it.
Version numbers shouldn't matter, and we shouldn't even have to remember them. That's why we're changing the numbering system, is so that you don't have to remember it. Okay, got it.
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This whole thing reminds me of putting a screen guard on a new phone and getting an air bubble trapped under it. You smooth it out with your nail only to have the bubble move to another spot. Repeat several times. The only way to clear it is to rip the screen guard off and start over. You're going to have confusion about version numbers as long as you have a number after your product's name, and you just added another one.
DMB said:Star-Person: "Now, are you on 23? Ok, you are. But do you have Logos 10? No? I'm talking about Logos 10 'features' ... not 23. What's 23? It's your software. No, no, not the LSB interlinear. Oh, you don't. Ok, no Logos 10 features, Logos 10 package? Ok, you do have that?"
This is exactly what's going to happen, most especially the part about the LSB interlinear.
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Sean said:DMB said:
Star-Person: "Now, are you on 23? Ok, you are. But do you have Logos 10? No? I'm talking about Logos 10 'features' ... not 23. What's 23? It's your software. No, no, not the LSB interlinear. Oh, you don't. Ok, no Logos 10 features, Logos 10 package? Ok, you do have that?"
This is exactly what's going to happen, most especially the part about the LSB interlinear.
If I am representative of what is meant by "star-person", I am certain I will not be a participant in a such a conversation. I have never needed to know more than:
- Fruit or a real machine? Oh, I only know real machines
- Did you mean to post in the L5 forum? If so, I can't help.
- The feature doesn't show? do you own the required resources/datasets? No? Well duh ...
- Can you post a screen-shot? I don't do dark mode or videos so I can't help.
- What do you mean you don't understand my cryptic answer? Graham or JT will post an explanation soon.
Okay, seriously it is only a few questions where the feature set/version is an issue we need to know. And it is often masked as a request regarding resources or how they get to the feature. What we won't have is all the conversations that begin when we ask "why haven't you updated to the free version of ..." where we have to wait for them to update before we can begin to discuss the actual issue, if it still exists.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) said:Bill said:
The bottom line is as a customer I would be more confused and potentially upset about base packages and feature sets than version numbers
Thanks, Bill. I agree that we can do a better job in communicating to customers what features are included at the different levels. We'll certainly work on improving that before Logos 11 comes around.
This now confusing me. Logos 11? I thought this will never come as the numbering system got changed.
I guess you mean the next major update.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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Is there a download link for the beta 22?
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Fabian said:
Is there a download link for the beta 22?
If you set the update channel to beta, it should download. Is that not working for you?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Help! My Logos just exploded from 10 to 22!
Just kidding! I mean I don't need help and it didn't actually explode. The fine print did change to 22.0.8. Looks good to me. All is well.
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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) said:
FWIW, that's something that's been on my mind. It's something I want to improve, but we also don't want to annoy customers with buttons that don't work, or explanations of missing functionality that feel like ads.
Thank you for the follow-up.
What impresses me (my old executive hat), is that at each turn in FL's business journey, the software team seems unaware of 'Marketing'. Choosing 'users' (system burden) vs 'customers' (revenue source) There's so much value created at FL, but hidden.
This AM, a post about an REB interlinear. So, curious I checked 'me' ... none, but then maybe I didn't buy it. In fact, I have no idea what I bought (software features) just 2 months ago ... much less years back. Yes, I could page thru licenses, etc or guess from buttons. 'Factbook' isn't much better ... have, don't have.
So.
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MJ. Smith said:
It already does. The change they are implementing is:
- currently if a person has not purchased an L10 package (including the free engine upgrade option), the L10 update will not upgrade their L9 or prior installation
- going forward version 22 will update in the current manner
- further forward version 23 will update as currently is done plus it will update L9 installations, essentially giving them the free L10 engine without going through the purchase for zero dollars which many users did not understand.
JT (alabama24) said:There isn’t a change in what you are talking about. There are two senses of “automatic“ being discussed.
1. Mark means “automatic: users won’t have to “buy” something to receive the update.”
2. You are saying you don’t want the engine to update without your permission. There is a setting to make that happen. However:
3. Some users want a separation of resource and software updates. That is something different and would be a different behavior than the status quo.
Thanks for clarifying things - Sorry for the delayed reply. I was out of town for a few days (no Internet). Very nice. No distractions.
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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) said:
We're not quite ready to distribute v22 to all users, but we're planning to do that with v23. Things are rolling out in stages.
To clarify Bradley's point about rolling out in stages:
- Stage 1: Version 22 as an automatic update to those running 10.x.
- Stage 2: Version 23 as
- an automatic update to those running 9.x, 10.x, or 22
- an optional update to those running 8.x or earlier
Stage 1 has Faithlife Development placing Beta Release Note links in https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_10_Beta_Release_Notes (as v22 beta is only available for Logos 10) and Stable Release Note links in https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_10_Release_Notes
Could Stage 2 have Faithlife Development place Beta Release Note links in a new page https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Beta_Release_Notes ? along with Stable Release Note links in a new page https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Release_Notes ?
Also could "Logos 10" or "Verbum 10" be removed from software splash screens ?
My splash screen preference is an older & simpler single color Logos & Verbum (like the icon for these forums).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Stage 1 has Faithlife Development placing Beta Release Note links in https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_10_Beta_Release_Notes (as v22 beta is only available for Logos 10) and Stable Release Note links in https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_10_Release_Notes
Could Stage 2 have Faithlife Development place Beta Release Note links in a new page https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Beta_Release_Notes ? along with Stable Release Note links in a new page https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Release_Notes ?
Yes, something like that is planned.
Also could "Logos 10" or "Verbum 10" be removed from software splash screens ?
If you own a Logos 10 package, then it will display Logos/Verbum 10. If you do not, then it will display something different.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Andrew Batishko said:
Could Stage 2 have Faithlife Development place Beta Release Note links in a new page https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Beta_Release_Notes ? along with Stable Release Note links in a new page https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Release_Notes ?
Yes, something like that is planned.
Then there is no connection to the Base Package Logos 10 when software version numbers no longer retain that connection. It is helpful for diagnostic purposes. Please retain Logos_10_Beta_Release_Notes, then change to Logos_11_Beta_Release_Notes in time.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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It is intended for there to be no connection between the Logos 10 base package and the software version numbers. Soon all customers, not just purchasers of Logos 10 base packages will be running the latest version of the software. It wouldn't make sense for someone who has only ever purchase L9 base packages to need to look under an L10 categorization to find the release notes of the software they are running.
It's not clear yet what we will be doing for organization purposes on the wiki.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Thank you everyone for such an entertaining read [:D] I've clearly been missing out by avoiding the beta forum.
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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Will any of this affect subscriptions to Faithlife Essentials?
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David Housholder said:
Will any of this affect subscriptions to Faithlife Essentials?
I do not see a connection between this change and Faithlife Connect subscriptions. The aquisition of features (via purchase or subscription) is separate from the updating of the software engine. One of the reasons for this change is to make that more clear to everyone moving forward.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
I think I understand the /whys/ of this.
Having to purchase the free engine in the past was weird, and I purchased it a few times not realizing... which caused further confusion.
This will eliminate some confusion, and may create new confusion.
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter to me out side of when I'm helping with beta cycles.
Does forum name nomenclature change then? we have logos 5, or logos 8 or logos 10 forums. Shouldn't it be logos 23 going forward, until its logos 24?L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
Does forum name nomenclature change then?
They have been changed - now Logos Desktop / Mobile / Web with equivalent beta forums
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I find this very confusing. Does this mean I have to do something to be sure I have all the latest updates to my Logos 10 software which I purchased when it first came out in October I think.
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If you have your application set to automatically update as most of us do, you don't need to do anything differently.Kathleen said:Does this mean I have to do something
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The index page for the forums is down for me. Click home up top, and all of that is missingGraham Criddle said:abondservant said:Does forum name nomenclature change then?
They have been changed - now Logos Desktop / Mobile / Web with equivalent beta forums
. Thankfully I have bookmarks.
a thread about this:
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/213245.aspx
Another thread:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/213250/1243182.aspx#1243182
there are at least three of us affected.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
Shouldn't it be logos 23 going forward, until its logos 24?
No, becasue it will only be six weeks until that happens.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Kathleen said:
I find this very confusing.
I can understand!
Kathleen said:Does this mean I have to do something to be sure I have all the latest updates to my Logos 10 software which I purchased when it first came out in October I think.
As MJ stated, you should not have to do anything different than you have ever done. Moving forward, the NAMING (nomenclature) of the software engine will be completely unrelated to any features or libraries you have purchased (i.e. L9, L10, L11, etc.). Although this is confusing to start with since it is a change, this really reflects what has always been the case: The software engine is free and is independent of the purchases you make.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0
