Help with Greek search

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244634#Comment_1244634

I did a morph search in the NA27 with πίστις@N???? and got nothing ( zero, nada, 0) even though a search for πίστις alone shows some 39 results!

Try lemma.g:πίστις@N- to tell the software you are starting from the lemma.

But why not just do an English languag search for "the faith" with the match case option turned off?

DMB

Just adding, and for those who aren't on Logos day-in, day-out (eg me), the search helps section (below the search text box) is specific to the selected search type (eg Bible vs Morph). In this case the search help shows the above syntax.

I was just curious how 'the faith' would work out (consistency of translation). It's interesting. I didn't know, but the Grid display is sorted across abbreviation; not title. So I re-did my abbreviations, so I could see the translation trend by date. Interesting variability.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244662#Comment_1244662

I was just curious how 'the faith' would work out (consistency of translation). It's interesting. I didn't know, but the Grid display is sorted across abbreviation; not title. So I re-did my abbreviations, so I could see the translation trend by date. Interesting variability.

Interesting indeed!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244679#Comment_1244679

If it is useful, request it. Bible translation words frequency over time | Faithlife

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244682#Comment_1244682

If it is useful, request it. Bible translation words frequency over time | Faithlife

Thank you MJ!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244662#Comment_1244662

In this case the search help shows the above syntax.

Can you clarify please? When i looked it showed the use of lemma:abc not just the word on its own.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244685#Comment_1244685

Can you clarify please? When i looked it showed the use of lemma:abc not just the word on its own.

My fault (?) ... I was referring to your syntax; not the initial OP's. But actually I was inviting your comment, since the example doesn't demand the '.g' spec (line 3 below; end of line):

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244689#Comment_1244689

But actually I was inviting your comment, since the example doesn't demand the '.g' spec (line 3 below; end of line):

True - but if you do use transliteration (as I did) using g: that's what you end up with!

What I was trying to say - but didn't communicate clearly - is that you need to use lemma: (or lemma.g:) and not just use the word itself in order to get the required results.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244708#Comment_1244708

True - but if you do use transliteration (as I did) using g: that's what you end up with!

Thank you! I guess, your greek looked like greek.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244634#Comment_1244634

But why not just do an English languag search for "the faith" with the match case option turned off?

I don't know how to do this.

To be clear, I only want the search to find places where the Greek says "the faith," that is, places where the article is present regardless of case.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244662#Comment_1244662

I don't trust English translations completely in this situation, that's why I want to search the underlying Greek text.

Somehow most of the replies don't seem to address my question, except Graham's, and I don't understand his answer. It does seem that I wasn't clear that I don't trust English translations in this matter so I want only the places where the Greek NT uses the article with the word faith, regardless of case.

Thanks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244815#Comment_1244815

I don't know Greek but Graham answer should be a model for the answer:

lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244816#Comment_1244816

lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>

and this would end up as morph.g:D WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:πίστις@N

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244813#Comment_1244813

To be clear, I only want the search to find places where the Greek says "the faith," that is, places where the article is present regardless of case.

One idea is a Morph Query Document that matches Article and Noun on Gender, Number, Case without having an Article in between Greek words:

lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>

and this would end up as morph.g:D WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:πίστις@N

An improved morph query for definite singular faith is (morph.g:DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NNSF) OR (morph.g:DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NGSF) OR (morph.g:DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NDSF) OR (morph.g:DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NASF)

In Koine Greek, the definite article precedes the noun and matches gender, number, case. Sometimes word(s) appear between the definite article and matching noun: e.g. Acts 24:24 "τῆς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν πίστεως" "the in Christ Jesus faith"

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244823#Comment_1244823

To be clear, I only want the search to find places where the Greek says "the faith," that is, places where the article is present regardless of case.

lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>

and this would end up as morph.g:D WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:πίστις@N

An improved morph query for definite singular faith is (morph.g:DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NNSF) OR (morph.g:DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NGSF) OR (morph.g:DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NDSF) OR (morph.g:DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NASF)

To be clear, you must use a Greek bible for these searches. The "underlying" Greek text of a translation does not retain either the word order or the proximity of the original Greek text.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244634#Comment_1244634

Try lemma.g:πίστις@N - to tell the software you are starting from the lemma.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245106#Comment_1245106

Try lemma.g:πίστις@N - to tell the software you are starting from the lemma.

Responders assumed you were on Logos 10 software posting in this forum. For Logos 9 use lemma:πίστις@N.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1244816#Comment_1244816

I don't know Greek but Graham answer should be a model for the answer:

lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245108#Comment_1245108

Responders assumed you were on Logos 10 software posting in this forum. For Logos 9 use lemma:πίστις@N.

Aha! That at least gives me every instance of πίστις and I can comb through them to find "the faith"

It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245111#Comment_1245111

I don't know Greek but Graham answer should be a model for the answer:

lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>

I meant for you to insert the lemma for the Greek article and the lemma for the Greek faith - not the descriptive phrases. I don't know Greek so I didn't take the time to look up the appropriate lemmas.

It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.

This is not true. We simply haven't found the right way to show you how. Because I am on L10 which uses a different syntax than L9, I can't simply run the query and show a screenshot you can mimic.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245112#Comment_1245112

It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.

A simple search is present in the previous posts, but not using Logos 9 syntax

Try @D BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:πίστις@N

hint: type and then select the part of speech you want (Article is equivalent to "the").

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245112#Comment_1245112

Responders assumed you were on Logos 10 software posting in this forum. For Logos 9 use lemma:πίστις@N.

Aha! That at least gives me every instance of πίστις and I can comb through them to find "the faith"

It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.

Morph Search (@DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NNSF) OR (@DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NGSF) OR (@DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NDSF) OR (@DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NASF)

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245174#Comment_1245174

KS4J - does your more complex search string pick up any more correct matches than Dave's simplier string when set to the same narrow/default/broad search and match all forms parameters?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245118#Comment_1245118

Try @D BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:πίστις@N

Dave. Thanks for your persistence. Your suggestion worked well.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245176#Comment_1245176

KS4J - does your more complex search string pick up any more correct matches than Dave's simplier string when set to the same narrow/default/broad search and match all forms parameters?

The L9 syntax works the same in L10 and is unaffected by peripheral settings like those (even Broad) i.e. pure morphological searches are unaffected.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1245176#Comment_1245176

KS4J - does your more complex search string pick up any more correct matches than Dave's simplier string when set to the same narrow/default/broad search and match all forms parameters?

Yes. Morph Search (@DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NNSF) OR (@DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NGSF) OR (@DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NDSF) OR (@DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NASF) finds 122 verses in the SBLGNT while Dave's simplier search @D BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:πίστις@N finds 111 verses.

Galatians 3:23 is found by both searches. Simple search finds "the faith" while complex search finds "the faith" and "the coming faith" that has a verbal participle between the definite article and faith noun.

Also Koine Greek can use the definite article as a relative pronoun. Romans 4:11 snippet "..., σφραγῖδα τῆς δικαιοσύνης τῆς πίστεως τῆς ἐν τῇ ἀκροβυστίᾳ , ..." "..., seal the righteousness the faith the in the uncircumcision, ..." has the definite article AFTER "the faith" being a relative pronoun for "the righteousness the faith"

1 Thessalonians 1:8 "... ἡ πίστις ὑμῶν ἡ πρὸς τὸν θεὸν ..." "... the faith of/from you the toward the God ..." is another relative pronoun example, which does not have "the faith" in the LEB smooth English translation => "... your faith toward God ..."

Keep Smiling [:)]