Help with Greek search
I am trying to find all the places in the N.T. where the phrase "the faith" occurs regardless of case.
I did a morph search in the NA27 with πίστις@N???? and got nothing ( zero, nada, 0) even though a search for πίστις alone shows some 39 results!
I used to be successful at this. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks.
Have a great day,
jmac
Comments
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I did a morph search in the NA27 with πίστις@N???? and got nothing ( zero, nada, 0) even though a search for πίστις alone shows some 39 results!
Try lemma.g:πίστις@N- to tell the software you are starting from the lemma.
But why not just do an English languag search for "the faith" with the match case option turned off?
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Just adding, and for those who aren't on Logos day-in, day-out (eg me), the search helps section (below the search text box) is specific to the selected search type (eg Bible vs Morph). In this case the search help shows the above syntax.
I was just curious how 'the faith' would work out (consistency of translation). It's interesting. I didn't know, but the Grid display is sorted across abbreviation; not title. So I re-did my abbreviations, so I could see the translation trend by date. Interesting variability.
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Interesting indeed!I was just curious how 'the faith' would work out (consistency of translation). It's interesting. I didn't know, but the Grid display is sorted across abbreviation; not title. So I re-did my abbreviations, so I could see the translation trend by date. Interesting variability.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.1 1TB SSD
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If it is useful, request it. Bible translation words frequency over time | Faithlife
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thank you MJ!If it is useful, request it. Bible translation words frequency over time | Faithlife
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.1 1TB SSD
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In this case the search help shows the above syntax.
Can you clarify please? When i looked it showed the use of lemma:abc not just the word on its own.
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Can you clarify please? When i looked it showed the use of lemma:abc not just the word on its own.
My fault (?) ... I was referring to your syntax; not the initial OP's. But actually I was inviting your comment, since the example doesn't demand the '.g' spec (line 3 below; end of line):
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But actually I was inviting your comment, since the example doesn't demand the '.g' spec (line 3 below; end of line):
True - but if you do use transliteration (as I did) using g: that's what you end up with!
What I was trying to say - but didn't communicate clearly - is that you need to use lemma: (or lemma.g:) and not just use the word itself in order to get the required results.
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True - but if you do use transliteration (as I did) using g: that's what you end up with!
Thank you! I guess, your greek looked like greek.
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But why not just do an English languag search for "the faith" with the match case option turned off?
I don't know how to do this.
To be clear, I only want the search to find places where the Greek says "the faith," that is, places where the article is present regardless of case.
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
I don't trust English translations completely in this situation, that's why I want to search the underlying Greek text.
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
Somehow most of the replies don't seem to address my question, except Graham's, and I don't understand his answer. It does seem that I wasn't clear that I don't trust English translations in this matter so I want only the places where the Greek NT uses the article with the word faith, regardless of case.
Thanks
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
I don't know Greek but Graham answer should be a model for the answer:
lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>
and this would end up as morph.g:D WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:πίστις@N
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To be clear, I only want the search to find places where the Greek says "the faith," that is, places where the article is present regardless of case.
One idea is a Morph Query Document that matches Article and Noun on Gender, Number, Case without having an Article in between Greek words:
lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>
and this would end up as morph.g:D WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:πίστις@N
An improved morph query for definite singular faith is (morph.g:DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NNSF) OR (morph.g:DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NGSF) OR (morph.g:DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NDSF) OR (morph.g:DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NASF)
In Koine Greek, the definite article precedes the noun and matches gender, number, case. Sometimes word(s) appear between the definite article and matching noun: e.g. Acts 24:24 "τῆς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν πίστεως" "the in Christ Jesus faith"
Keep Smiling [:)]
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To be clear, I only want the search to find places where the Greek says "the faith," that is, places where the article is present regardless of case.
lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>
and this would end up as morph.g:D WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:πίστις@N
An improved morph query for definite singular faith is (morph.g:DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NNSF) OR (morph.g:DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NGSF) OR (morph.g:DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NDSF) OR (morph.g:DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma.g:πίστις@NASF)
To be clear, you must use a Greek bible for these searches. The "underlying" Greek text of a translation does not retain either the word order or the proximity of the original Greek text.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Try lemma.g:πίστις@N - to tell the software you are starting from the lemma.
Responders assumed you were on Logos 10 software posting in this forum. For Logos 9 use lemma:πίστις@N.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I don't know Greek but Graham answer should be a model for the answer:
lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
Responders assumed you were on Logos 10 software posting in this forum. For Logos 9 use lemma:πίστις@N.
Aha! That at least gives me every instance of πίστις and I can comb through them to find "the faith"
It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
I don't know Greek but Graham answer should be a model for the answer:
lemma.g:<lemma for article> WITHIN 1 WORD lemma.g:<lemma for faith>
I meant for you to insert the lemma for the Greek article and the lemma for the Greek faith - not the descriptive phrases. I don't know Greek so I didn't take the time to look up the appropriate lemmas.
It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.
This is not true. We simply haven't found the right way to show you how. Because I am on L10 which uses a different syntax than L9, I can't simply run the query and show a screenshot you can mimic.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.
A simple search is present in the previous posts, but not using Logos 9 syntax
Try @D BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:πίστις@N
hint: type and then select the part of speech you want (Article is equivalent to "the").
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Responders assumed you were on Logos 10 software posting in this forum. For Logos 9 use lemma:πίστις@N.
Aha! That at least gives me every instance of πίστις and I can comb through them to find "the faith"
It's too bad a simple search for the Greek for "the Faith" without consideration for case seems impossible.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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KS4J - does your more complex search string pick up any more correct matches than Dave's simplier string when set to the same narrow/default/broad search and match all forms parameters?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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KS4J - does your more complex search string pick up any more correct matches than Dave's simplier string when set to the same narrow/default/broad search and match all forms parameters?
The L9 syntax works the same in L10 and is unaffected by peripheral settings like those (even Broad) i.e. pure morphological searches are unaffected.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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KS4J - does your more complex search string pick up any more correct matches than Dave's simplier string when set to the same narrow/default/broad search and match all forms parameters?
Yes. Morph Search (@DNSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NNSF) OR (@DGSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NGSF) OR (@DDSF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NDSF) OR (@DASF BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:πίστις@NASF) finds 122 verses in the SBLGNT while Dave's simplier search @D BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:πίστις@N finds 111 verses.
In Koine Greek, the definite article precedes the noun and matches gender, number, case. Sometimes word(s) appear between the definite article and matching noun: e.g. Acts 24:24 "τῆς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν πίστεως" "the in Christ Jesus faith" whose word order in smooth English => "the faith in Christ Jesus"
Galatians 3:23 is found by both searches. Simple search finds "the faith" while complex search finds "the faith" and "the coming faith" that has a verbal participle between the definite article and faith noun.
Also Koine Greek can use the definite article as a relative pronoun. Romans 4:11 snippet "..., σφραγῖδα τῆς δικαιοσύνης τῆς πίστεως τῆς ἐν τῇ ἀκροβυστίᾳ , ..." "..., seal the righteousness the faith the in the uncircumcision, ..." has the definite article AFTER "the faith" being a relative pronoun for "the righteousness the faith"
1 Thessalonians 1:8 "... ἡ πίστις ὑμῶν ἡ πρὸς τὸν θεὸν ..." "... the faith of/from you the toward the God ..." is another relative pronoun example, which does not have "the faith" in the LEB smooth English translation => "... your faith toward God ..."
Keep Smiling [:)]
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thank you
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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