How would you improve Print Library?

Are you using Print Library and have suggestions for its improvement? Or would you like to use Print Library, but don't because it lacks a crucial feature? We'd love to hear from you in this special survey:

Click to participate: Help us improve Print Library for everyone

One little improvement that is already in beta, is that we're now showing all the page numbers when results span more than one page. Previously we'd only show the first page number within each article.

We're also working on improving the mobile app so that you'll be able to add books without barcodes - either by typing the ISBN manually or by searching for the book as you do on Desktop.

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Comments

MJ. Smith

clicking says we lack permission to access

Mal Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241072#Comment_1241072

Yeah, getting the same issue - don't have permission to access.

Phillip J. Long

When I click the link I get a google form I don't have permission to use.

Unlikely: I would like to be able to copy/paste from snippet view, but I get why that is not going to happen.

More likely: I would like to be able to copy the bibliographical reference to paste into a paper, or even to copy into a note. I realize I can copy from the library and add the pages manually, but it would be nice to make a quick-click and add ref to a note.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241072#Comment_1241072

clicking says we lack permission to access

My apologies. I should have tested it in an incognito window. I've now fixed the access problem.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241122#Comment_1241122

I would like to be able to copy/paste from snippet view, but I get why that is not going to happen.

This should already be possible. Just select the text from within the search snippet with the mouse, then right-click or press Ctrl/Cmd+C. If you start selecting in the left margin, that won't work. You need to start you selection within the snippet itself.

Roger Pitot

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241129#Comment_1241129

I would love to see results from my print library in the passage guide. At my age, it's easy to forget which commentaries I have in print!

Barry Hoffman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241135#Comment_1241135

Agree 100%. It seems that the Print Library feature is still isolated from the rest of the functionality. Yes, you can search through your Print Library if you specify one or more books in your Print Library as the search domain. However, it should work seamlessly with other searches that you might do. Roger mentions Passage Guide as one of them.

Phillip J. Long

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241129#Comment_1241129

I cannot select any text in the snippet view. I thought it might be a publisher thing, so tried books from Zondervan, Crossway, Kregel, W&S, B&H, and Baker. No copy/paste for any Print Library book

I can create a bibliography and export to Word, etc.

I am using 10.1.0056, MacBook Pro (M1 Max 2021), Monterey

Kathleen Marie

I just purchased the print library feature today. I am still trying to figure out how to use citations and bibliography for the print library. I will eventually figure it out, but students will be the ones most interested in creating citations from the print library. We tend to be overwhelmed with trying to learn three types of software at the same time we are writing papers.

I'd love some training that targets students even if it is mostly advertisement. Exhausted students are going to hit "buy" if you make it easy enough for us. If you can make it unnecessary to use a separate citation manager, we are going to be willing to invest more in Logos. If you can create an undergraduate paper writing template that makes it unnecessary to use Word, we will invest even more in Logos.

Bob Robinson

It is very dissapointing that the Print Library is not included in the Passage Guide.

I assumed that it would! It only makes sense: I am studying a passage and I want to see what commentaries I own for that passage. The ones in Logos are listed (and I have even taken the time to prioritize my favorites).

However, I wanted to see in the list the commentaries the ones that I own in my print library. That way, I can be alerted that I have that resource and I can be sure to lift that book off my shelf when I need it. It seems simple enough to include that in the Passage Guide.

Again, it's frustrating that it isn't.

Mal Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241592#Comment_1241592

As with everyone else, inclusion of the print library into guides and workflows seems like a obvious improvement. I would also love to see print library resources able to be prioritized instead of just digital resources.

Blake Bottomley

I have several books without barcodes. I called and got the same answer that is in the forum. Click add to library in the library tab. It adds it to the library but when you open it, it still says you don't have access to this book go to our site to buy. I have it but it is in hardback. The tech on the phone said you could type in the number on the App. but I have found no place to do that. Help would be appreciated. Thanks

Blake

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249247#Comment_1249247

I have several books without barcodes. I called and got the same answer that is in the forum. Click add to library in the library tab. It adds it to the library but when you open it, it still says you don't have access to this book go to our site to buy. I have it but it is in hardback. The tech on the phone said you could type in the number on the App. but I have found no place to do that. Help would be appreciated. Thanks

Hi Blake, you can't read your print library books in Logos (or anybody could go to the bookstore and enter every ISBN). But they will show up in your searches and give you the page number of the contents you want.

Br Damien-Joseph OSB

Print Library seems to be useless with books that were produced through the Faithlife Ebooks process, on account of their lack of page numbers. If your search produces Print Library results from books you own in print but FL owns in Faithlife Ebooks, well you're out of luck. This may seem like a different topic, but I cannot understate how important it is for the whole Logos/Verbum technological ecosystem that these books get their page numbers added in. The technology is behind Amazon's mass-produced ebooks... and when the prices match, I wish it were a no-brainer to buy FL's copy, but I need to cite page numbers in my papers and even in books I read for pleasure, on account of how often I want to share something with a confrere and need a page number to refer them to. This seems to be standard now everywhere but Faithlife.

Adding this would be HUGE for FL overall. Hope to see it someday!

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249309#Comment_1249309

Print Library seems to be useless with books that were produced through the Faithlife Ebooks process

That is correct because Faithlife Ebooks are treated as part of the standard library along with Logos Research and Logos Readers editions. The information available through the library is the sum total of the information available on the books.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249309#Comment_1249309

Print Library seems to be useless with books that were produced through the Faithlife Ebooks process, on account of their lack of page numbers. If your search produces Print Library results from books you own in print but FL owns in Faithlife Ebooks, well you're out of luck.

I personally don't think so. If I search a print library book for a word or a phrase, I will get a big chunk (say half a paragraph) of context around the actual search hit, which means

it will help me to evaluate whether this hit really is something that I want to explore further. In many case it will help to sort out signal from noise (or whatever metaphor you like). Very useful, in my opinion.
it possibly gives me enough to understand the author's reasoning without finding the book and locating the place in it - this saves much effort.
it even allows me to copy and paste from this chunk of text into a note or a document I'm working on.
if the Print Library book actually is in Kindle, PDF or other searchable electronic format, I have text copied to locate the exact search hit
it gives me the front matter of the book in the "you don't have a license" preview, probably enough to give proper attribution.
if I really need to open a paper book and find the search hit, I have a section title (such as Chapter 21: xxxxx) and most often the beginning of a paragraph - this will be quick.

That's a lot of help compared to what we used to have before (nothing).

I understand that page numbers may make locating or referencing a halfway precise location in a printed book easier. On the other hand, from my understanding of the eBook production process (and that it is a very low-margin, not really well-managed part of FL's business), building page numbers into those books would be a massive and costly undertaking, taking away resources from actually producing books. And datatypes. And putting proper datatypes into books where they belong. Not to mention cross references. And a lot more things - if there were up to ten slots for tasks in the book production, I'd rank adding page numbers to eBooks not higher than eleven.

Beloved Amodeo

Or would you like to use Print Library, but don't because it lacks a crucial feature?

I'm not quite sure I qualify to take your survey. I don't use this feature because the vast majority of my print books are not in the FL catalogue.

It makes little sense to me to use this feature for one or two books.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249247#Comment_1249247

I have several books without barcodes. I called and got the same answer that is in the forum.

If you have the most recent version (v23) of the mobile app, you should be able to enter ISBNs manually from within the ISBN scanner tool (or search by title/author).

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249439#Comment_1249439

It makes little sense to me to use this feature for one or two books.

I disagree. If you put the handful of books you own into the software, they will show up in your searches when you need them. That seems valuable to me no matter how many of how few there are.

Bruce Roth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249548#Comment_1249548

I think I posted something like this on another thread, but I think there is more to the Print Library than just cataloging my own print books.

I have added some of my books, both Kindle, paper books and even a couple of resources that exist in competitors products. I haven't used the feature all that much, but I can see hits that refer to the book and I can look it up if i desire.

But I can also see where I can maybe add books that maybe my friends have or maybe my church library might contain. Also I have access to my local library that has ebooks available via an app called Hoopla and I notice it has an extensive inventory of Christian books. I see quite an inventory of IVPress and Eerdmans books as well as others. Why not add those that exist in Logos that interest me and find pointers to them?

I also see where it could be useful in allowing one to preview a book to see if there is enough content to perhaps purchase the resource on Logos. Add books off your wishlist for example.

Br Damien-Joseph OSB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249428#Comment_1249428

I understand that page numbers may make locating or referencing a halfway precise location in a printed book easier. On the other hand, from my understanding of the eBook production process (and that it is a very low-margin, not really well-managed part of FL's business), building page numbers into those books would be a massive and costly undertaking, taking away resources from actually producing books. And datatypes. And putting proper datatypes into books where they belong. Not to mention cross references. And a lot more things - if there were up to ten slots for tasks in the book production, I'd rank adding page numbers to eBooks not higher than eleven.

On the contrary, Amazon seems to have done it with a catalog far bigger than FL's, and I don't imagine they would spend a lot of money if the only process were to do it by hand, as it were. I suspect that there is a way to do it, but it requires thinking outside of the box and breaking out of siloed processes. For example, I imagine that not every publisher sends FL their ebooks in the same format, and the data for pagination exists somewhere in at least some of these publisher's documents. It could be a matter of rewriting a single script (or maybe a couple scripts) and reprocessing those books to now have page numbers. Or it could be a matter of doing this with only the publishers who send their ebooks with the data that's easiest to script into FL ebooks page numbers. It's unimaginable that the only way to do this is by hand--we should be well beyond 2003's methods and tools. Taking resources away from other projects, as you say, ought to be very minimal in 2023.

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1249825#Comment_1249825

Just to be clear, we do add page numbers for ebooks, but only when the content from the publisher actually includes page numbers. The problem is that most of the ebook content the publishers provide does not include any page numbers.

Faithlife ebooks generally do not get any hand editing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250056#Comment_1250056

Many Kindle ebooks only show a "Location" instead of page numbers. I've written many seminary papers citing the ebook location and it's been acceptable.

Richard Krahn

I'd love to use Print Library, but I'm not wealthy enough. It's that simple. I'm a simple parish pastor, teaching at a small high school, with barely enough money to pay my mortgage. I've owned Logos since 2.0. I've spend hundreds of dollars since the mid 1990's on books and updates. Yet I'm getting priced out. I didn't know until I had wasted $50 on a basic upgrade to Logos 10 that this feature isn't included in that. If I want this feature, I have to pay FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS. That's insane, and it's really turning me sour on the whole Logos production.

In short, I'd love to use this feature, but you've priced it at an insane place.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250226#Comment_1250226

I didn't know until I had wasted $50 on a basic upgrade to Logos 10 that this feature isn't included in that. If I want this feature, I have to pay FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS.

1. You can get a refund of your $50 dollars just by asking Customer Services - Faithlife don't want you to pay for stuff you neither want nor need.

2. Have you considered a subscription to connect? If, indeed, and which I seriously doubt, you need to pay $1500 dollars, to get the print library function then if it comes with a connect subscription you will have had to live for another 100 months before you start to loose money and by then you will be enjoying all the other benefits that come along in the next 8 years.

Richard Krahn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250273#Comment_1250273

As I understand it - again, after I spent the money to upgrade - the Print Library feature only comes with Gold packages and above. Since you for some reason don't believe me, here's a screenshot of what it would cost me to upgrade to a Gold package. It actually dropped a few bucks since yesterday, because it was $1470-something yesterday.

I've never heard of the "connect" subscription - I'll have to look into that.

Roger Pitot

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250284#Comment_1250284

Richard you should look at the Logos 10 Full Feature upgrade which will provide all the features but no additional resources (except interlinears). It will certainly be cheaper.

Br Damien-Joseph OSB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250056#Comment_1250056

Just to be clear, we do add page numbers for ebooks, but only when the content from the publisher actually includes page numbers. The problem is that most of the ebook content the publishers provide does not include any page numbers.

Faithlife ebooks generally do not get any hand editing.

This is great news, Andrew! Thank you for the clarification. Now if only publishers would get with the times...

As I understand it - again, after I spent the money to upgrade - the Print Library feature only comes with Gold packages and above.

This is an incomplete understanding. As was mentioned above, you can get the Print Library feature with the full feature upgrade.

Here for Logos: https://www.logos.com/product/228476/logos-10-full-feature-upgrade

Here for Verbum: https://www.logos.com/product/228483/verbum-10-full-feature-upgrade

It's still not cheap, but it's also not $1500.

Richard Krahn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250305#Comment_1250305

Thanks for the pointer to the full feature upgrade, but as you said, that's still not cheap. The rest of you must have budgets that I can only dream of. I still see a whole lot of resources there that I don't want or need. I'd be willing to pay $100 or so for an actual "full feature upgrade," but looking at the list describing that upgrade, it's much more than just a feature upgrade. It seems to me I ought to be able to get something with the program, fully featured, but without all the commentaries, lectionaries, courses, lexicons, and interlinears that I don't want or need.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1250284#Comment_1250284

Since you for some reason don't believe me, here's a screenshot of what it would cost me to upgrade to a Gold package.

Yep your are correct - it seems that the Full Feature upgrade could well be a quarter of the price of the gold package that you displayed.

The books you mention in your later post are actually the resources needed to allow the features to work. If you want the features you need the data in the resources that come with the set.

The Connect subscription, which being a pastor I would recommend that you ask your congregation to pay, (a professional needs professional tools) would still be cost effect over two or three years without factoring in the other benefits.

David S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1241592#Comment_1241592

I've just purchased L10, and I should probably have checked here first - but I'm also disappointed by the lack of integration with the Passage Guide. That's my go-to resource for sermon prep, helpfully including commentaries and other resources in one place. I want to consult print materials at the same time, but they're not there.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270843#Comment_1270843

I've just purchased L10, and I should probably have checked here first - but I'm also disappointed by the lack of integration with the Passage Guide.

Greetings David

You would need to be a bit more specific about which package you purchased. There is everything from the free L10 basic to the really big L10 Libraries. I am sure that you know that the latest software engine (I'm on 27.3.26) is provided at no charge.

Lack of integration with the Passage Guide is not a matter we hear many complaints about with any L10 resource or package. Please expand on the problem.

I want to consult print materials at the same time, but they're not there.

Is it that you were expecting your print Library to feature in the Passage Guide?

David S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270863#Comment_1270863

Thanks, Mike. I purchased the L10 feature set and have the L9 library.

Is it that you were expecting your print Library to feature in the Passage Guide?

Adding books works well, but it would be great if at least the commentaries I own in print were reflected in the passage guide. I (wrongly) expected all commentaries to be reflected there, not just electronic ones. I appreciate it was my assumption rather than anything stated on the website.

Lack of integration with the Passage Guide is not a matter we hear many complaints about with any L10 resource or package.

That's fair. There are a couple of comments in this thread from Bob Robinson and Mal Walker seeking integration with the Passage Guide/workflows.

That said, I appreciate you have priorities, and I can get used to searching in addition to using the passage guide!

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270872#Comment_1270872

That said, I appreciate you have priorities, and I can get used to searching in addition to using the passage guide!

Just for the avoidance of doubt David. I am only a user of the software. I get the brown badge because some others thought I might be kind and helpful and recommended me as forum volunteer (MVP). That just goes to show that one can fool some of the people...

The MVPs just try and help users with problems using or understanding the software. Reporting bugs and keeping discussions on point an within the guidelines set by Logos.

As an MVP I have only influence, I have no authority, and certainly no practical way to influence development.