What am I doing in Logos?
I normally get up early. This morning I got up, dressed, got a cup of coffee, then sat down in front of my computer to Logos. I started again on a study I've been working on.
In the process I opened Word, to a book I've been building in Logos.... and it hit me... What am I doing? I have about 4-5 Personal Books that I have been continually adding to: A cross reference, A commentary, And books studies about each biblical book. In the course of my morning studies, I'll most likely have one or more of the Word books open and be adding to them....
Why am I doing this? I don't want to be a "book writer" I want to study my bible, write sermons, classes, etc. Shouldn't my "bible program" help me with that so that I don't have to "build" all the cross references and commentaries and such? Then I started thinking about all the time I have spent in building "my personal books" and wondering "why isn't Logos helping to find the things I have in those books so that I can spend more time on studying instead of trying to learn how to write personal books"? Is Logos turning me into a "book writer" because of it's "ineptness"?
I understand there are some "personal notes" of my own thinking that I want to have, and I use Logos Notes for that... But outside of that... shouldn't Logos provide all the "search" and the "findiness" so I don't have to write books to keep track of things I do discover or find?
I like Logos... but I don't want to spend my time learning to be a "great book builder". But I do find that in Logos I need to do that...
What am I missing?
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
Comments
Why am I doing this? I don't want to be a "book writer" I want to study my bible, write sermons, classes, etc. Shouldn't my "bible program" help me with that so that I don't have to "build" all the cross references and commentaries and such? Then I started thinking about all the time I have spent in building "my personal books" and wondering "why isn't Logos helping to find the things I have in those books so that I can spend more time on studying instead of trying to learn how to write personal books"? Is Logos turning me into a "book writer" because of it's "ineptness"?
I understand there are some "personal notes" of my own thinking that I want to have, and I use Logos Notes for that... But outside of that... shouldn't Logos provide all the "search" and the "findiness" so I don't have to write books to keep track of things I do discover or find?
I'm afraid I don't understand the point you are making - I think you are saying that you want to make notes of what you find, but then would rather you didn't have to. Which left me confused.
Please clarify.
I guess it all depends on your personal habits. I use Logos to actually study the Bible and keep my notes and outlines in Word. The outline-manuscript gets copied in the sermon builder and then I study the next topic or verse. PB for me they’re just to add a book that might not be in Logos and the PB can read it to me.
I plan to build simple PB’s just to have Logos read them to me.
Are you writing your very own PB’s or typing out books from other authors? I guess it all depends on what your focus is.
DAL
I like Logos... but I don't want to spend my time learning to be a "great book builder". But I do find that in Logos I need to do that...
What am I missing?
Can you clarify why you have to build personal books? What is the purpose of your personal books?
I take Notes as I read the Bible and other books (example: commentaries) in Logos, just like you. I try to tag every Note I take just so I can always search my Notes. But I have not felt the need to do Personal Books.
When I want to do a Topic/Theme study, I create a Notebook and just put all the related Notes in that Notebook. When I did a Topic Study for my Men's group, I then organized my Notes in a Word file to present it in a digestible form. Again, not felt the need to do Personal Books
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
In the process I opened Word, to a book I've been building in Logos.... and it hit me... What am I doing?
I do some building of PB's that I think Logos could/should do. I used to make more PB's but have moved to more long notes. From my perspective if my Bible study doesn't sometimes lead me to want to document my own findings rather than simply reading everyone else's work, my study may no being productive. I would ask you "why PB rather than notes" because I use notes for cross-reference and intertextual type stuff.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Thanks everyone....
To clarify..... Before a bible program... I had a library of 3,700 books. I used dB2 and built a program whereby I could enter a topic, book title, page no, notes about that article, etc. Later after db2 went bye-bye, I used converted my information from dB2 to Excel. and for years kept building my "information system" into Excel.
I was hoping not to have to do that when the "bible programs" came out. Yet... this morning, I caught myself now building a PB and doing the same thing as I had done in the past.
I guess now... I yearn for a better search so I can find thing in my library and not have to keep a "manual system". And I think, in that search system... maybe I could have my own topics somehow embedded in the search system whereby I could link a find to one of the topics... Like I do now with my PBs that I build...
I know, I know... I'm living in a dream world.... lol
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
I guess now... I yearn for a better search so I can find thing in my library and not have to keep a "manual system". And I think, in that search system... maybe I could have my own topics somehow embedded in the search system whereby I could link a find to one of the topics... Like I do now with my PBs that I build...
I know, I know... I'm living in a dream world.... lol
There is no way that Logos is going to tag the verses like the way you are tagging (meaning same topic/theme as you). So there is no search that will yield the results that a search on your own personal books. So, yes, your dreams ain't coming true.
I think you tag each note heavily. Then run a search on your own tags, which should obviate the need to maintain personal books.
btw, old habits die hard. For my research - my day job - I downloaded papers, printed them, highlighted them, took notes,....bcos we didn't have touch screen when I started. Even when touch screen became available, I still continued on the same path instead of reading electronically and taking notes electronically until....I was forced to experiment with reading electronically. Thank God for the forced need to experiment. I have never gone back to reading print versions of research papers. In a similar vein, force yourself to get off PBs and use other Logos tools like Tags to accomplish what you are doing.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
I know, I know... I'm living in a dream world.... lol
Please keep dreaming. We need this! You are highlighting possibilities that could very well be explored. I find your use of PBs fascinating. Would you consider doing a post on here or a blog or screencast somewhere else to describe your work flow?
What I think what you are partly highlighting is limitations in doing research with Logos. When clippings first came out in Logos, I would argue it was a bit ahead of its time. Since then, not much else has been added to aid in research. Accordance added stacks and exporting citations to a citation manager, but they have really declined in quality and it is now the buggiest software on my computer, so I don’t expect any research innovation from them soon. (Logos used to be the buggiest, but the tables have dramatically turned. How times have changed!)
For me, this has meant using additional tools to supplement what Logos (and Accordance) can’t do. For years as a Mac user I have used DevonThink. DevonThink is a freeform type of database that allows you to turn all sorts of information into a personal concordance. Word documents, emails, pdfs, webpages, you name it, most anything can put out into it and indexed, tagged and searched. Plus it has a ‘related’ to type of AI technology that will highlight things in your database that you might have not made the connection to before.
How does this work with Logos? I make clippings in Logos, then export them to DevonThink in RTF format for further processing. I will also copy some notes from Logos and put them in DevonThink with a deep link back to Logos. I started a thread some time back asking Logos to exploit this deep feature further in the Apple ecosystem. The L4 link was also ahead of its time when it was first rolled out and is invaluable to create connections back to Logos. Now we need support for making links in Logos to other tools. Without such, linking is only one way.
In the last couple of years I have added Obsidian and plain markdown to my workflows and do most of my out in the wild note taking there. My Obsidian vault is indexed in DevonThink so that when I search and use its AI type referral technologipy, I can see this all in one place.
So where am I going with this? I think we do need to push the boundaries of developments in computer aided research with Logos. There is a feedback on Sending Highlights to Readwise with 198 votes. https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/send-highlights-to-readwise There is also a feedback for a Paper Builder with 332 votes. https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/paper-builder
I suggest these are market demand indicators for two things. Greater interoperability of Logos with platforms like Readwise and tools to do better research within Logos.
Logos can’t do everything, so it needs to be able to interface with tools that reflect the latest in personal information management systems and strategies such as Zettlekasten. I am personally using Readwise more and more. It dumps my clippings into Obsidian for further processing and is ultimately indexed in DevonThink. Could we explore how Logos could do more of this sort of thing?
Logos also needs better tools to compile within its own ecosystem for research well. I think the Paper builder concept is worth exploring along with deeper linking within Logos notes and with external knowledge management systems.
Yes, let’s dream! We are now carrying around miniature seminary libraries on our computers and there are amazing possibilities to be explored and imagined. What else could be done with advancements in technology?
Yes, let’s dream! We are now carrying around miniature seminary libraries on our computers and there are amazing possibilities to be explored and imagined. What else could be done with advancements in technology?
Thanks.
And as you indicate, Clippings is a great start. I think Clippings is a "Star" performer. I recently started using clippings a short time ago and wish they could be improved .... 1. I would like to see ability to change color of text, bold and underline (I know about the work around and use it a lot). 2. I would like to see the ability to have a "heading menu" like in Word. 3. I would like the ability to resize the "boxes" of the "clipped text" for emphasis.
I believe there are different types of Logos users. One says... Logos is too complicated, don't add anything else as that would just make it more complicated and harder yet to learn. Another says.... We have only just begun to reach the heights of what Logos could do, but we have to explore the dreams. Remember, everyone called the Wright brothers "fools" to think man could fly like a bird.
I confess.... I'm in the 2nd group. One man with a dream and enthusiasm will go to heights other men can't think about!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
I would add to the 1st and 2nd group, another group. It is those who are doing research. As Logos is used by so many Universities, Seminaries and Bible Translators, it would be interesting to pull them together to look at their work flows with other tools like Obsidian, ReadWise Reader, DevonThink, Anki, Zoterio, etc. and how Logos might fit better within them. I don't think it is any surprise that so many have voted for ReadWise capability with Logos.
BTW, another feedback item is to create operability between Logos and Anki with 66 votes - https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/replace-flashcard-app-with-interface-to-anki
I would add to the 1st and 2nd group, another group. It is those who are doing research. As Logos is used by so many Universities, Seminaries and Bible Translators, it would be interesting to pull them together to look at their work flows with other tools like Obsidian, ReadWise Reader, DevonThink, Anki, Zoterio, etc. and how Logos might fit better within them. I don't think it is any surprise that so many have voted for ReadWise capability with Logos.
BTW, another feedback item is to create operability between Logos and Anki with 66 votes - https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/replace-flashcard-app-with-interface-to-anki
I voted.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
I found this discussion very interesting. To my mind, this is what this forum should be about. It is a great discussion on a meaningful topic. Thanks to all who contributed.
I’m running into the same problem when preparing my lectures.
It would be nice if everything could be done in Logos. That's where you keep things together.
For now, I am working with external programs like OneNote and sometimes Obsidian.
The notes in Logos are too limited to contain a lot of content.
Personal Books are not flexible enough. They need to be updated every time.
I would prefer something like the Sermon Editor, but tailored to personal document creation, with the possibility of hyperlinks to other Logos documents and Zotero, my main library program.
I would be pleasant, if there was some more possibility to tag more document types: canvas etc. For now, it's too easy to forget what you have written. [:)]
My challenge is that whilst most of my theological ecosystem is in Logos, there is too much content out there I draw from. Web pages, kindle highlights, pdfs, tweets, videos, etc. - so I find my processing of my ideas and clips needs to occur elsewhere and my document writing is done in other tools.
This is where the Readwise integration would be awesome, but for now I have to export clippings to rtf, then convert them to markdown to bring my work in Logos into my Zettlekasten and writing work flows.
I do some note taking in Logos as well to create intermediate work products and using personal books might be something to explore.
Not much. How would Logos know each user? Though it sounds like you're ready for Logos to embrace 'AI', so you can enjoy your coffee.
Me ... I'm a big advocate of the hunt ... not the meat department at the grocery store. Don't even have to shoot anything. Just learn.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.