Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

Thank you, Mark, for your quick reply. 

The point of AI is that it allows you to easily find what you're looking for in the thousands of volumes you own, and summarizes the content instead of just showing you a few paragraphs. And that's just the beginning of what AI can be leveraged to do. "Ageless wisdom" is worthless if you never read it. 

You are correct; we cannot predict where AI will lead us in the future. However, after trying it with Logos Pro, I have found it to be of no use to me. As a student, I cannot rely on the AI-generated summary as it may miss out on important details. Similarly, as a churchgoer, I do not want my pastor to use shallow and superficial illustrations generated by AI. Although Mistral or ChatGPT 4 can produce text more efficiently, they are often regarded as mere toys. AI has its limitations, and generating text is just a small aspect of its capabilities within the tech industry. AI has been utilized for many years and has a broader range of applications beyond text generation. But now we have to pay for these silly gadgets in Logos. Did anyone come up with a really heartwarming, true, and profound illustration for sermons with AI in Logos? Also, as of now, AI doesn't search the Logos library; it only summarizes some sections it finds by looking for keywords the conventional way. 

If you already own Logos, you have a "perpetual license."

Yes, I didn't complain about the past and present business model of owning features within the Logos Application, but about the future model. 

I purchased Office 2013 in (you guessed it!) 2013, mainly because I need MS Access (not available on 365). I have used 365 on other computers, and see no additional features which would improve upon what 2013 has for my purposes.

Ten years on, at $10/month, I would have spent $1200 for 365, when I paid far less for 2013. The point is, the Office comparison doesn't really hold, if the functionality of the software doesn't also increas in value.

The point is, somebody DOES do that, happily, with Office, and it sounds like there a some Logos users who do, as well.

No, it's like saying it's cheaper to buy the current version of Microsoft Word whenever you replace your computer, and only upgrade if there's a truly compelling reason to do so.

I'm guessing most people on this forum upgrade whenever Logos releases a new version. Sure, there are lots of users (perhaps most users) who are several versions behind, but they probably couldn't care less about a subscription plan, one way or another. The ones who care about the announced changes are the users who upgrade every cycle. And if you have enough money to upgrade every cycle, you have enough money to pay for a subscription plan. 

IMHO, the glory days of Big Bible Software are behind us. Most seminaries aren't requiring Biblical languages any more. Many pastors, teachers, and laypeople are very content with the free digital offerings available, and happily purchase their books from Amazon (either print or digital). You only have to look at what happened to Quickverse, WORDsearch, PC Study Bible, BibleWorks, (and perhaps even Accordance) to see that Logos is making a good move to ensure future viability as a strong company that can consistently release a compelling product. 

Verbum will have its own subscription model along the same lines.

Thank you, Bede you did a good job summarizing. This final observation surprised me. Has it been indicated that Logos and Verbum will no longer come joined and therefor require separate subscriptions?

Thank you Beloved Amodeo. The summary was as much to get my mind clear on it as anything else; if I've misunderstood anything I hope people will correct me.

I think it's going to be similar to now. At the moment, I have principally Verbum, and then I buy some Logos libraries as well. Also, I've downloaded both Verbum and Logos software engines. Books, features, etc. run on both, except there is a slightly different interface for some bits, although not the ones I use most. With version 10, there was a difference in the feature sets, so that when I had the Verbum full feature set I still had to pay a little (using dynamic pricing) for a few features in Logos full feature set. My question is whether the same thing will apply. If they merge the feature sets again, of course, the question becomes irrelevant.

All the extensive datasets and taggings are antithetical to AI.

I don't quite understand this - could you expand a bit please?

It's the machine does the work. -vs-  you do the work.  You learn more when you do it yourself.

I'd be interested to know just what features are available in the basic free Logos engine. Having full feature sets makes it difficult to know what the baseline is. The page for Logos Free at https://www.logos.com/free-edition shows search temlates, fuzzy search, notes, the ability to run workflows and two workflows, Factbook, atlas, reading plans, interlinears, and possibly some word study tools, among others. Besides that, there are a number of free bibles, a couple of commentaries, etc.

That seems a pretty decent starting point for a free offering. I know the commentaries are out of copyright, as are the bibles, etc., but it's enough to entice people into trying it out before deciding whether they want to go deeper (into their pockets) with it and invest in more books and features.

Would the free offering in the Logos engine stay similar?

[Edited for a typo.]

I don't quite understand this - could you expand a bit please?

AI within a chatbot produces at the moment, trying to put together "sensible" statements according to what it was programmed with. The tagging of Logos resources was maybe done with some algorithms but often by hand. Whenever you search Logos now, it doesn't produce something new; it reacts precisely to your input (search operators, etc.) and lets you access your books in an incredible way. But if you let AI produce some text, this text will be different every single time (hence its incomparability to the tagging and dataset approach so far). Searching Logos now relies on the intelligence of highly skilled people who created the datasets (e.g. in the original language resources) and tagged titles (which can be accessed via the Factbook). You can apply your theological knowledge to the vast intertwining of all your resources. 

However, for AI to perform a proper run, we would only need "reader editions," not "logos editions," to get results. The quality is not the same; it is far worse because AI does not correct itself and you can never repeat the same outcome. Also, AI sometimes makes the most stupid mistakes while at the same time being able to solve highly complex problems. It is not reliable. However, the tagging and datasets are quite reliable. 

But if the *only* means of accessing those features (ever) is to pay a $15 subscription every month forever and ever, then EVERY MONTH AFTER THE FIRST TEN MONTHS of rental, we are paying more and More and MORE for the same features. 

Isn't that a lot like saying it's cheaper to buy Microsoft Word 1.0 for $500 than it is to pay $10/month for an Office365 subscription? If I'm still using Word 1.0 that I purchased in 1989, then I've saved a lot of money. But nobody does that, especially not most of the avid Logos users who post on these forums. 

No, it's like saying it's cheaper to buy the current version of Microsoft Word whenever you replace your computer, and only upgrade if there's a truly compelling reason to do so. For most home users a five year old version of Word is fine.  (Shoot, for what I do at home, Word 2010 would still be just fine. I only upgraded because I had to replace my old computer.)

As an aside, the current one-time price for Office Home & Student 2021 is $149.99, and the one-time price for Office Home & Business 2021 is $249.99. Is Microsoft 365 a better deal? Depending on your needs, it could be. But for someone on a fixed income who doesn't anticipate upgrading anytime soon, maybe not. How the economics of a subscription work out depends on your personal situation.

First of all, why in the world are people talking about MS Office?  The *engine* of Logos is sort of comparable to MS Office, but I didn't spend $28,000+ for the Logos engine!!!  I spent it on BOOKS.  The engine is supposed to make the books MORE valuable, due to its capabilities and the tagging in (some of) the books.  The IMPLICIT PROMISE from Logos is that the engine will be "the best it can be" to help me study the BOOKS.

Fwiw, I still own and use MS Office 2007 ... rarely Access, often PowerPoint & Excel, sometimes Word.  It cost me ZERO (I got a free copy since I was a MS beta tester and went to a convention).  And, for y'all's info, the CURRENT cost of standalone permanent license MS Office is as low as about $40 ... you can buy legit licenses that MS fully honors, which are "leftovers" from the packaged deals that normally come from PC retailers.  So, people who are paying monthly fees for MS 360 are imo being foolish, unless they are doing it to get some cloud storage or web access when they aren't at their normal machine.  

The REASON that I can and still do use Office 2007 is that there haven't been any meaningful improvements from my POV since then.  I did buy a $40 upgraded license to Office 2021 but I've never installed it since I don't really need it and I'm lazy.  So, PLEASE stop making ill-informed comparisons to MS Office. 

The Logos engine's functionality is CRUCIAL to the use of my books.  And, NO, even though I am now portfolio L10 in 3 traditions, and own a lot of prior library packages, I *do not* update every year, or two years, or 4 years.  Prior to updating to L10, I was Diamond in two traditions (plus other packages) in LOGOS 6.  I'm not even sure I recall when that was released ... 2014 or 2015?? 

The point is, the intermediate L7, L8, L9 engines didn't offer me enough additional features to interest me (Mobile L10 was a biggie for me).  SO, I *SAVED MY MONEY* and didn't pay for those intermediate upgrades.

But now, LOGOS is going to FORCE me to do that ... maybe I can wait for another few years before the non-AI new features accumulate enough to interest me ... but let's say L12 (or whatever it will be called then) has a really cool set.  So, I'm forced to upgrade via the only available means ... ongoing subscriptions.  Upgrading the engine used to be FREE ... the extra datasets, depending on features added, would be a couple hundred bucks.

So ... once I turn on the subscription, to get those accumulated features and datasets, after probably less than a year, my subscription fees will have paid for the equivalent "perpetual" license.  AFTER THAT, maybe for years and years, I'm stuck with paying more and more for NOTHING that I want, extra.

THAT IS A RIPOFF.  I am being forced to buy things I don't want, and keep on paying ... sort of like blackmail ... since I'm "hooked" now on the new features, and my ability to use my huge investment in books is now "leverage" to keep me paying.

Sure, if someone wants ALL the ongoing new features, and wants them ASAP, and can AFFORD to pay and pay and pay, well, the subscription model works just fine.  For them.  But obviously, the vast majority of current customers at least found the prior sales model palatable.

If Faithlife/Logos is struggling to make ends meet, they have other options besides bilking the customers. They could cut back on staff.  They could dispense with the (literally un-Spiritual) AI nonsense.  They COULD run their business LIKE a ministry.

After all, aren't we all commanded to do EVERYTHING as unto the Lord?

I'm sorry about the rant.  I feel like I've been in a 30-year marriage and my wife is asking if it's OK to have other partners.

Yes, that's a lot like purchasing Logos in 2016 and never upgrading. Your Office Home Edition 2016 still has exactly the same feature set it had when you purchased it. 

Indeed ... and with Logos thus far I always just purchased what met my need ... be it in terms of features or books etc., and sometimes it was individual books, sometime a base package upgrade that included what I needed at the time. Such will no longer possible if any new features (perhaps even improvements or fixes of current features?) will only be available via subscription.

Hey, a new Tom Schreiner book comes out in 2026.  Because I didn't subscribe, I can't buy it.  Is this my Logos future?  

No, that's not the future. We love selling books!

As we've said:

Subscriptions aren’t required to maintain access to your existing content. They’re for those who want access to new and improved features. With Logos, your content investment is always safe, and you’ll always be able to access it for free. The subscription benefits listed above for features don’t apply to books in the same way, so we don’t foresee a time when we’ll stop selling perpetual licenses to books.

Thank you, Mark.  What's life with out a new Schreiner book most years!

East TN:  

My apologies for unintentionally "targeting" you.  I was "ranting" about the topic in general, and just clicked the nearest Reply.  My points were being made to inform folks and to hopefully shut down further comparisons.