Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

For myself, I have no interest in a subscription model of Logos.  The uncertainty regarding the future of feature set availability outside of the subscription model is concerning. 

I suggest keeping the current model as it now is for those like myself who do not prefer subscription.  By that I mean resource, feature set, dataset, etc., are maintained on a regular basis as they are currently.  Then add the four tier subscription plans which will include all the AI related features for those who wish to use Logos as a subscription option.

Business wise it is most beneficial to leave and maintain the current format as it has been implemented; while, then adding subscription as an option for those who want to go that route.  Less confusion, less heartache, etc., and both sets of customers, even future customers, are better served in this way.

Don, these are good thoughts--thanks for sharing.  I'd like to add a few of my own, since Mark said he wants to hear them.

I'm generally not a fan of the subscription model, but I understand the reasoning behind this decision.  For me, the decision to subscribe is based on value.  With that in mind, I'd like to use Microsoft as my example.  For many years, I only bought the perpetual license version of Office.  When MS introduced the subscription model, I resisted, because I didn't want to "rent" my software and was happy with the features I had.

Over time, MS introduced new features that I wanted, so I would upgrade my copy, and that would keep me for a few years.  At some point, MS added much more value by introducing web and mobile versions that were included, as well as tons of cloud storage and a super generous amount of accounts for the family plan.  Suddenly it became a no-brainer to subscribe! 

Even with the subscription model, however, they still sell retail perpetual license versions, and I think it would be wise for Logos to do the same.  Yes, all the new features would only be available to subscribers, but those who buy a perpetual license might have a feature set that is a year or two behind at the time of its release.  Due to the reasons you cited, I would not think it wise to allow ala cart purchases of feature sets, just sell bronze, silver, gold and platinum levels like they do today, but a step or two behind the subscription.  When the features are old enough, they're probably already paid for anyway.

The moral in all of this is that people should buy a subscription because it offers a compelling value, not because they were forced to do it.  If some are happy continuing to buy upgrades, that's still a revenue stream for Logos, it still keeps users "in the fold", and they can still buy into the subscription model if it ever interests them enough.  

I'm looking forward to learning more about the new model.

Thanks for the post, Mark. I was advised to post the contents of an email I sent to cs@logos.com yesterday in this thread to voice them in the forum.

Thank you for the transparency regarding the move to a primarily subscription-based model with respect to feature upgrades. Since you have solicited feedback, I would just say that I would greatly value being able to purchase individual features over a subscription. I understand that features pertaining to AI might require a subscription, but I strongly suggest that Logos provide an option for feature sets that can continue to be bought outright (perhaps excluding the AI features). There are many features in Logos that I find incredibly value to own, but I may only use them a few times a year. I couldn’t justify a monthly expense for those features unless I was using them regularly. I expect that future feature additions might be similar, and I’d love to just be able to buy the features that I actually want and will use. 

It’s possible that I may try out Logos Pro just to see how the AI features are, but I doubt I would keep a subscription just for AI features, and I would certainly not subscribe for other features. Based on review of many other comments and concerns, I think I am not alone in saying that I want the choice to buy non-AI features outright. 

A secondary concern pertains to the long-term maintenance of features from previous Logos versions. I’m sure Logos has a plan in place to make sure that any previous features purchased will continue to be maintained and troubleshooted, but it would be better if Logos would make that explicitly clear for the comfort of users. 

Thank you for all you do to make Bible study easier and more accessible, and may God provide wisdom as the Logos team navigates the path forward!

One way to look at this is that for years users have asked to be able to perform more loosely worded google type of searches. I remember a thread years ago when Bob Pritchett talked about this and discussed some of the technical challenges of bringing that into the desktop experience.

I think for some, Smart Search is a huge step in that direction and SHOULD BE CELEBRATED! Whether I would ever use 'AI' much in other things, even this very first implementation of enhanced search on its own has some has some significant benefits for digging around in a large library. The good news you can still stick with traditional searches if that is all that you want.  Going forward, I will be using both and I can already see how it will save me time and highlight resources that I might not find as quickly.  The exciting thing is, this is just the dawn of a new type of searching and it will only get better. 

The point to make on this is that AI is here to stay, but it is a very, very broad topic (it is not just a chatbot) and will enhance a number of features. I also agree AI can be abused. We already use a lot of tech that assists us in ways that we have come to just accept as life. For example, my kids will use Apple Maps to drive to a store, but will never look at a map to check whether it is the best route or not.  I have challenged them to think. Blind use of technology will be a danger for all of us and we need to be wise and discerning at all times. If a person doesn't want to use the elements connected to sermon prep, then don't do it. That is critical thinking that is required in this day and age, regardless of whether you use specific implementations of 'AI' or not. And to be fair, if Logos was not doing this, there would be some on these forums rightfully raising alarms that the platform is falling behind in how computer assisted Bible study could be advanced.

I applaud Logos for pushing the boundary into new things and exploring ways to invest in the platform. The apps could use huge investment in existing features (i.e. notes) and the Bible software market in general has lost a lot of its innovative edge. In recent years we have lost Bible Works and WordSearch. In the premium Bible software that mostly leaves Olive Tree and Accordance. Accordance has had its own issues in the last couple of years and have not indicated even the slightest capacity to innovate on this kind of stuff as they try to deliver on a multi-year promise to have a web app and advanced syncing. To Logosians, these are age old technologies that we have come to accept on this platform as status quo.

Even this type of dialogue with users, can also be assumed as status quo. I have seen threads like this locked on another Bible software forum when management did not really want to listen to their most active users. I think Logos has been very wise to engage in a prelaunch phase with its user base as it charts new territory. It's not an easy task - we have users that have spent 10's of thousands on the platform over the years, and then those that are joining now that might take years to catch up in building a library that advanced features need. I would have done the same thing by having this consultation and rolling out a prelaunch preview. I think this positions Logos for success for whatever they ultimately launch this autumn.

There has been a number of comments made by management on the ongoing free base software, continuation of perpetual licenses, possible opportunities to buy older feature sets out right and perhaps even graceful exit paths for loyal users that subscribe for many years. I personally trust and believe they will find the right combination of things to drive innovation and sustainability. No company is infallible and I have made my critiques to Bob on more than one occasion, but this thread indicates that they are endeavouring to do the right thing, and are listening. Again, management engagement like this is not seen everywhere.

I for one am very happy to pay for a subscription to invest and receive early access to enhancements and new innovations. Waiting for two years for significant improvements is an eternity in this age of software, and if we can work through the change management of this to give Logos the investment money it needs to drive the product forward, whilst protecting our long term investments in perpetual licenses and residual value, we just might have the best of the past, while we adapt into the future.

I have been a Logos user for well over a decade. Most of my experience has been pleasant; however, there has been plenty of disappointment. I have continue to remain faithful to Logos because it has provided me with a powerful resource when it comes to my preparation and growth. I've used other programs over the years of ministry that have not come close to the power of Logos.

Like many that have already voiced their concerns about the subscription model, I don't like them, never have, never will. I signed up for the Faithlife Now subscription because my sales contact at Logos sold me on all of the benefits of having it. The paint dried and the new wore off and Logos moved on to something else. A while later when other Faithlife projects were falling apart, they came back to those of us who were Now members and told us that they were going to slap some new paint on the Faithlife Now subscription add some bells and whistles and call it Faithlife Connect. Many of us didn't like the new model then because it lacked value for many who had spent so much in building our libraries. There target was layman and churches. Great idea... but the only appeal for many of us was the added features being rolled out and not having to wait for major updates. In my mind it was in some way a paid beta program. I remained through the transition of Faithlife Now to Connect. The value for me over the past couple of years hasn't been great and I've considered cancelling my subscription. Logos hasn't added any value to convince me that it was worth the money that I spend. The free book every month... They really don't appeal to me and I sift through the pages looking for books that maybe one day will end up providing something in a search query for research. I doubt it but it's my hope.

Now... We are hearing of new paint and things changing again... I get it... AI is the new hype and every business under the sun is getting in on it. Can it be helpful in providing more power to the already powerful Logos experience. I think it will. I'm sure many of us have already been dabbling in the AI fields and have seen some good and some bad things coming from this new fruit. I have my own opinion as I'm sure many of you do. We are creating too many "Easy Buttons" and it's taking more and more people away from growing deeper in the Word of God. Don't get me wrong... I like the ease of being able to open Logos and using the rich features that have been developed to save us time. I value my digital library because of the time it saves me each week in study and preparation. But... It has not taken me away from my meditation and chewing on the Word of God...

The AI model that is being plated for us in the new rendition of a Subscription model from Faithlife doesn't sound appealing to me. Just like the other models that have come before, it doesn't really add that much value for me, and with the reduced features in the proposal it seems like a past meal that many of us have eaten already. 

I am disappointed with Faithlife on several levels and the this disappointment has grown more and more over the past couple of years. 

My inside sales guy of about 8-9 years who kept me up to date on new things coming out and helped me flesh out my library moved to another department before L10 came out. I was passed on to someone else. When L10 launched I tried emailing and calling the person that I was passed on to about upgrading to the new version. That person eventually called about 6 to 8 weeks later and stated that they had been busy helping other people. I understood it was a busy time but I also felt like my years of patronage had been thrown out the window. I'm sure many of you have spent a lot of money over the years with Faithlife just like I have. They have provided us with a premium resource at a premium price. They have a business model to make money... I've helped support this model for a long time but my eagerness to subscribe to another business adventure by Faithlife has waned, especially since I've been through a few cycles with them. They've spread themselves so thin with so many different programs for this and that... Websites, Online Tithing, and the list goes on and on... Good ideas that went nowhere excepted being scraped. 

So what have I done... I once subbed to Proclaim and the pro media for many years... I reported bugs and asked for changes to be made in development only to fall of deaf ears. Proclaim was a great resource but because it wasn't being developed and fixed... I found another presentation software that was being developed and was much more robust than Proclaim. Have I missed using Proclaim... Yes... but I can't continue to support a business model that doesn't want to develop and give value to those who are using and subscribing to something that's not getting any attention because the company is going down a different rabbit hole. Faithlife has spread itself across too many projects for too many years instead of focusing on the core development of their core products. This is just my observation... and I could be wrong... but look at all the misses over the years... I ended my subscription to Proclaim a year ago... I didn't receive a call or email to ask why I was leaving or a survey or anything. I guess my voice didn't matter. 

I've also reduced the amount of books that I purchase for my library as well. I might buy a couple of hundred dollars worth of books a year where I was once buying a few thousand dollars a year on books. There are more resources that I would like to add to my library, but I have lost a lot of motivation to buy more into Faithlife because of my years of walking beside them. Do I still think Logos is the best of the best... Yes... Will I continue to use Logos... Yes... I just don't think I can walk as close to them as I once did until they do something to really pull me back in as a valued customer/ partner. 

This is my two cents for those who took time to read what I've had to say. I'm sure it's not going to make much difference, but I just wanted to share some of my frustration that has been building for several years... 

Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner.

When did this happen?  Who owns it now?

3. Libraries: We plan to continue to offer libraries via our existing perpetual licensing model along with dynamic pricing. We haven't yet decided if we'll refresh them every two years, move to an annual release, or something else.

I may be in the minority, but this is my major concern.  I want to make sure that there are still base package libraries available, as this is where I focus most of my attention.  

Am I to understand that you are considering reconfiguring base packages of books yearly, or every two years as it is now?  Can you expound on the current ideas, or maybe start a new thread if you are searching for ideas?

There definitely will still be numerous multi-level tracks of libraries available. But we want to simplify the buying process for the new customer.

This is still an active area of discussion, but here's what might change:

• The organizing principle for these libraries (role/function, denomination, theological perspective, interest area)
• How often we update them (e.g., our general libraries annually and the specialist libraries as needed)
• How we expose them in the new customer buying process to ensure we don't overwhelm people

These libraries will still be perpetually licensed with dynamic pricing.

TBD on whether subscribers enjoy special benefits such as early access, an extra discount, etc.

As a FLC subscriber for years, when these new plans do go forward, my 3 favorite current perks are below. I hope they can be retained in some sort of way/shape/form:

1) 2% Back annually

2) 3 Faithlife Free Books & Lexham Discount Monthly

3) Mobile Ed Courses (I would love to see this expanded with maybe an old Blockbuster approach for the older folks here... a quota of rental courses that renews monthly/annually. The choice of courses would also need to be expanded as I've noticed from time to time that not all are available.

If I can be greedy, FLTV is dying. I would love for this new subscription model to help prop this up or maybe combine with someone like RightNowMedia or another one. For years people have asked for improvements to include a minor owned videos section but that has never come. If FLTV dies, can you maybe transfer these videos to Logos itself? I've purchased several films over the years but they only show on FLTV and finding them is a real pain.

Thank you

So trying to get my head wrapped around this. What I think I hear is books will still be sold without a subscription. There might be a feature set sold also no subscription. Now if we don't subscribe the new features we get will not be updated? So what about previous features will they not be upgraded to? If you offer a feature set to be sold at launch it doesn't seem ethical to not update it. I have to be reading this wrong.

The original post intended to say, "In the next version of Logos, we're going to be leaning heavily into subscription for these five reasons, but we don't yet know whether we're going to lean into subscription exclusively." 

So to be clear, future users will own nothing and be happy as they choose between food and shelter or Bible study.  You sound like Klaus Schwab and the WEF.  This is pure socialism and is completely inline with the zeitgeist rather than the Scriptures.  Bill Gates did the same thing.  He moved Microsoft Office to subscription only.  Yet Western civilization is founded upon private property ownership.  Y'all are making permeant renters out of people who have historically supported you and put up with your failures and publications of countless false teachers all so you could keep the business running.  This is just the logical conclusion of the trajectory y'all have been headed in for sometime.  Very sad.  All this proves you care nothing for missions or missionaries in the field.  Meanwhile Blue Letter Bible will send you their entire offline version on CD for free by request.  See the difference?  BLB is a ministry.  Logos is a business and this is a bad business move into socialism.  You can be part of the solution or part of the problem.  It appears you are opting to become part of the problem.  If y'all go down this road I will never again be able to recommend Logos to anyone but will recommend they seek another software provider.  Repent.

Nathan

Is it really going to be as firm as 'buy once, no upgrade'?

We're saying that if we offer a perpetual license, it wouldn't come with regular updates, whereas a subscription would.

Mark

Would you say that those of us who do own Logos 10 feature sets and are able to get a discount on a subscription as a result...

Would you say that if we were offered a perpetual license that would not come with regular updates....that we would be able to keep up with updates by subscribing at a discount (since we purchased the features)?  And if this could be true, then when a new version of a perpetual license came out, we could do the same?

Repent.

Bottom line is...Logos will be leaning heavily into subscriptions because they are thinking long term sustainability for their business. They are choosing to adapt their business model so they can be around for years to come. They have nothing to repent for. I applaud them.