Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

I don't recall seeing any user state that they prefer Logos go out of business....

Frank,

I never said that anyone did. I was referring to the appearance that some are more concerned about changes than sustainability. I truly hope that this is not the case. But whether or not this appearance is the reality, it is true that we each still have the right to our own opinions.

One thing that history has shown though, is that changes are inevitable for any organization that stays in business for any length of time. History is replete with examples of businesses that failed to change when needed and have fallen by the wayside. One of the reasons that Logos is making this change to a more subscription-based model is to help ensure sustainability for the future.

As the business is indeed theirs, they are likely in a better position to know what they need to do to move forward than me, you, or anybody else for that matter. I am glad that they let us know ahead of time and allowed us to share our thoughts.

As I have said before, while I prefer a non-subscription model, their sustainability for future use in my Bible study is far more important to me than the business model in which they use to make it happen.

In other words, their staying in business is more important to me.

Sam, just chatting.

At least your words did not appear magically one letter at a time as a chatbot would.[H]

- As a retired retail executive, 'change' doesn't guarantee survival. Existing customers may balk. New customers may see new opportunities for marginal purchasing. Customers do what customers want.

I certainly agree. No matter how hard any of us try, none of us really know what is going to happen in the future. I was a partner in a computer store some years ago. While things started out great, it became increasingly difficult to figure out the best way to keep solvent. It seemed like we were always just one step behind, and eventually we had to close up.

- Logos has several problems. They used a high-price/periodic-sale policy, which for many years seemed to work well. Unfortunately, folks are now trained for sales. And apparently that market is shrinking.

Simply put, figuring out how to support current customers while finding new customers is beyond my ability. We all have a number of ideas of things that might work; my hope is that whatever they do, it will work.

- The publisher side of the business appears to be unenthused about Logos renting. That's unfortunate. That'd be major.

While renting certainly seems to be an idea that could be beneficial, I suspect there are a number of users that would balk at that as well. That being said, there are a number of works that I could use temporarily, of which I am hesitant to pay the price for purchase.

- That leaves Lexham products and features.  Not a whole lot to work with.

I know that there have been some concerns about the speed at which Lexham products are produced.

Well, I have been waiting since 1946 (OK, I’m not that old) for the NICNT to release 2 Peter and Jude, but who's counting?[;)]

I don't doubt, they can dilly-dally around with Lexham and features. But their primary problem is Logos itself. Its complicatedness self-defines their future. They dug into too deep. The mobiles 'should' have been their door to the next-gen, but instead, they went for more complicatedness.

So now, they say subscriptions. To features. Which is fine. For a product that is inherently self-limited.  Dilly-dallying.

It does seem that the very thing that makes Logos so very beneficial to so many different types of people is the same thing that makes it difficult for others to use with ease.

This is one way in which I think subscriptions could be a benefit. Lower tiers could be created for less formal users with specific layouts created for specific books. Perhaps partnering with other media companies, (such as RightNow media for example) would allow tailor-made layouts for specific studies.

This is a great idea, and it seems like it could work.  I'm assuming that if you exercised your 100% discount, you'd then start back at 0% off with a new subscription.  This approach would allow people to get back in when they feel like there are compelling features drawing them back, and they can get off the train if they need to decrease their spending, without losing the new features.  I think the key to this approach will be separating feature sets from libraries.  

Like others have said, I'm not a fan of subscriptions, but there are some compelling advantages.  For example, a brand-new user can get in for a low monthly price, and avoid the potentially high start-up cost, depending on what books they want.  This could open up Logos to a whole new generation of users who might not have taken the chance otherwise.  

Another exciting possibility is that of church-based subscriptions, whereby a church could provide subscriptions to its members.  This could potentially be another great source of new users, and additionally, churches could train their members on Logos and not have to worry about what level each person may or may not have.

There's a whole new realm of things this could open up!

I've read through like 10 pages of this forum. And I think I see that Logos is heading towards a subscription future for financial reasons. I like Bill Coley's example of the company that develops the RAW image editing software for a subscription model and if I had my preference, it would be this route. Yet, I also remember reading on one of the first few pages of this forum that this would put more work on Logos and make it more complicated in coding. But my take is, if Logos is going to go the Subscription route after having a purchasable license route, then they need to do the work. Stop trying to go the cheap route. Make your product the best.

I am someone who likes to own what I am paying. Subscription is not owning, but theoretically renting. Once I stop paying, a.k.a. renting, I wouldn't get the features anymore. The problem with subscriptions is that every company seems to be going in that direction. If I want to do art, most programs now require a subscription; If I want to have a note-writing/storage application, most of the good ones now are subscriptions (unless you were blessed by being an early customer); if I want to have a fitness tracker these days, that usually requires a subscription. In fact, I own a farm as a ministry, there are now subscriptions for programs that help manage that stuff. My point is, if I pay subscriptions for everything electronic I use whether that be on my tablet, laptop, etc..I am looking at a lot of money. Sure, I can get all the "new features," but I'm not rich. I am a pastor at a small church. I am in ministry not for the money, but for the people. 

I have been using Logos to study God's Word, to create sermons, to create teaching opportunities, to help people know Jesus and live for him better. I want to keep that without worrying about my finances. If Logos goes only subscription for the new features, I foresee it will be a sting to its usefulness in the future. I only got the subscription to Logos Pro because I understand that AI is being outsourced and I understand the money involved in using that at the moment (though I'm sure this price will go up like everything else). I also want to see it use technology to its fullest for the advancement of the Kingdom. But besides that, if Logos can create features that are in-house...they should be able to be purchasable. As your customer, that is what I have gotten in the past and that is what I want now. I do not want to be paying for 1000 subscriptions to live in a technology age, I just want the program. If I want it to do something new, let me buy the updates.

If I've read the entire thread correctly, anyone that currently subscribes to Connect Essentials and does not separately own the Full Feature Set will eventually need to purchase a higher tier of Logos Pro to obtain the same datasets/features they currently enjoy under Connect Essentials. Is that correct? 

It's certainly true that Logos Pro does not include all the features that are currently available in Connect Essentials.

However, there will be a migration path for all our existing subscribers. Several years ago, we announced a migration plan from Logos Now to Connect, which would have forced users to either lose their features or pay double the amount. Rightly, we quickly reverted that decision. We are not going to repeat that mistake this time.

That said, we have many different subscriptions, so setting out the migration path for each one will take a little while. We'll get it done before the new subscriptions launch in the fall.

Thanks Mark. I was a Logos Now subscriber and transitioned to Connect Essentials when that all went down. As a result, I never felt the need to purchase the Full Feature Set as each new version of Logos was released. 

The difficulty for me at present is determining whether it makes sense to purchase the Full Feature Set or just continue with the status quo. I currently have a Connect Essentials subscription through 1/30/2025 and I am planning on signing up for the Logos Pro trial. 

Like Tes earlier in this thread, I am finding it difficult to make an informed and cost conscious decision. Perhaps that isn't possible until the tiers and applicable pricing are better defined.

The problem I’ve always had with Logos is that, for all the money I’ve spent, I don’t really own anything.  Unless I update my program every once in awhile, or pay for a monthly subscription, I can’t access what I’ve purchased.  I spent money on both Biblesoft and QuickVerse and have nothing to show for it.  

I’m not saying Logos is going out of business.  If they did, however, I would be left with nothing.  I know people are saying Logos is not going away.  But statements about them having to go to subscriptions for financial reasons, doesn’t give me great assurance.

I’m not a fan of subscriptions.  Especially for books.  I already purchased them.  Why should I have to spend money each month in order to read them?

The worst scenario is that society will have collapsed to such an extent that a paper bible is all that will be available to those who hold the faith and time for study will be severely limited by the need to scavenge for food.

I can see you've not been doing your apocalyptic homework. Any self-respecting Logosian isn't going to go traipsing off looking for food, instead of running just one more passage guide on that last bit of battery power.

Logos and Verbum (and your books can be read in either), why not expand those to include others geared towards other academic disciplines?

They more-or-less already tried this. It was called NOET and it did not work out for them. The Noet app was a scaled down version of Logos. All of the resources from the old Noet site could (and still can) be used by the regular Logos app.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/182745.aspx 

WOW, I did not get any notice of this issue. I am a very engaged user of Logos 10 with more than 17,000 resources. I only found this thread because someone posted in MP SEMINARS.

I have not changed my email address or anything else on my account. 

I have a lot of catch up but maybe not in time to make an informed decision.

This is very disturbing. I don't want to lose my access to $25,000 worth of investment.

WOW, I did not get any notice of this issue. I am a very engaged user of Logos 10 with more than 17,000 resources. I only found this thread because someone posted in MP SEMINARS.

I have not changed my email address or anything else on my account. 

I have a lot of catch up but maybe not in time to make an informed decision.

This is very disturbing. I don't want to lose my access to $25,000 worth of investment.

Alan: see the post above yours.  Click survey.  See Question 2.  There are 2 posts by Mark Barnes you can read to find out what's up.

You can exit the survey without filling it out by using your browser's 'X.'

My question was more geared toward once the subscription only model is activated (hopefully reconsidered) - it seems to be the equivalent of a Beta for long time users with the large libraries and Feature Sets

I don't believe the situation with subscriptions and beta testing has been answered. It's a good one though. What has been said is that ongoing feature updates will not be like beta testing. They will already have gone through beta testing and be fully functional, just that they will roll out as they are ready rather than be sold as bulk packages. It has also been hinted that the basic book package to come with the cheapest subscription will be very low cost, even "free," to the user. They would accomplish this by including books for which they do not have to pay royalties, i.e. public domain and Lexham Press.