transliteration of the Greek words in the Greek New Testament

1Cor10 31
1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭
edited November 2024 in English Forum

Hi everyone,

Is it possible to see the transliteration of the Greek words in any of the Greek New Testaments. Am going through a Intro course on Greek and I want to see if my pronunciation if correct or not?

Thank you

 

I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

Comments

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 55,570

    I know from experience the dangers of leaning too much on transliteration of unfamiliar alphabets. Is there a reason you don't want to rely on the pronunciation feature?

    The text converter tool will transliterate for you.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas Member Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31 said:

    possible to see the transliteration of the Greek words

    right click at the far left of a Reverse Interlinear Ribbon (click on Aleph-Omega button to open a RI Ribbon) select if you want to see transliteration of the Lemma and/or the form of the word in your text (Manuscript) and/or the root of the lemma.

    Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    Thank you MJ. I think the pronunciation tool is good one word at a time. I don't want to do it one word at a time.

    I was hoping to read a verse by myself, then turn on some visual filter or something that will show me the phonetic spelling (transliteration is probably not the right word I was looking for) to check if my pronunciation is correct. Is such a tool available?  

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31"> possible to see the transliteration of the Greek words

    right click at the far left of a Reverse Interlinear Ribbon (click on Aleph-Omega button to open a RI Ribbon) select if you want to see transliteration of the Lemma and/or the form of the word in your text (Manuscript) and/or the root of the lemma.

    Thank you David for pointing out the reverse interlinear. I turned on "Manuscript" and "Manuscript-Transliterated" and it helps no doubt. But it can also be a pain to some extent because the English words are not in the same order as the Greek words.

    Alternatively, after having turned on the visual filter, I could read in the same order as the Greek NT by following the numbering system that is there. But since the transliteration appears right below the manuscript form, it is hard to keep your eyes only on the Greek word to read for practice.   

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 55,570

    No, transliteration is not phonetic spelling although that seems to be a common misconception in the forums. Logos does not have a phonetic spelling.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • mab
    mab Member Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭

    I would like to second the idea of doing the hard stuff in learning Greek. You can right click on the text if you get stuck or need the info, but when your eyes no longer glaze over the text and you can stumble through a line of Greek it's cool. 

    The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 55,570

    A quick explanation - leaning on the transliteration teaches your mind that the Greek alphabet is a code for the transliteration i.e. the familiar alphabet. Going from the Greek alphabet to sound teaches your mind that the Greek alphabet is an alphabet. Once you've taught your brain it is a code it is very hard to convince it that it is really an alphabet.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    Thank you to both MAB and MJ.

    mab said:

    I would like to second the idea of doing the hard stuff in learning Greek. You can right click on the text if you get stuck or need the info, but when your eyes no longer glaze over the text and you can stumble through a line of Greek it's cool. 


    No intention to half-ass it, MAB. I don't think you'll find too many PhDs who can half-ass anything. We are not wired that way, for good or bad. 

    I am taking a 3-week, 5 days/week, 3 hours/day Intro to Greek class from our local seminary. It is a full-semester class crammed in 3 weeks! Not conducive for picking up a new language, but I'm giving it my all despite my lack of giftedness from God on blind rote memorization, which is needed to be successful. This is my 3rd day and I've already put int more than 25 hours including class time. After class, I come and see the relevant lectures from GK101 (Intro to Biblical Greek) course by John Schwandt to get a second dose. 


    Yeah reading John 1:1 in Greek was cool indeed.

    MJ. Smith said:

    A quick explanation - leaning on the transliteration teaches your mind that the Greek alphabet is a code for the transliteration i.e. the familiar alphabet. Going from the Greek alphabet to sound teaches your mind that the Greek alphabet is an alphabet. Once you've taught your brain it is a code it is very hard to convince it that it is really an alphabet.

    I get what you’re saying. “Don’t try to make it formulaic” is what you’re trying to say. But the problem is I can’t mimic what I don’t get in my head. I have GK091/092 (Interactive Greek Alphabet) course and GK101 (Intro to Biblical Greek) course by John Schwandt. I like John Schwandt, but I don't follow when he says "γ will be more of a gurgling, like in its name (gamma)" or when he says "We combine these two mechanisms—so, letting the air slip out or stopping it—to form four types of sounds. We have two variations of voiced sounds, stops and fricatives; and we have a mirrored pair of unvoiced sounds, again, stops and fricatives."  Maybe, others can relate to this type of explanation and they understand how the alphabet or word would sound. My brain can't process such statements. That is why I was looking for phonetic equivalents so I can learn to pronounce the right way (Learning to pronounce the right way has no practical relevance for a lay person like me, but it is more out of respect to my teacher, who is also one of our pastors at church). Moreover, while going from pronouncing alphabets to words in Greek is not too bad, it would still be cool to get reinforcements through phonetic equivalents.

     

    MJ. Smith said:

    No, transliteration is not phonetic spelling although that seems to be a common misconception in the forums. Logos does not have a phonetic spelling.


    Is there any place (even outside Logos) where I can get phonetic equivalents?

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 55,570

    Not that I know of but you might google phonetics transliteration for each of the two common pronunciation schemes.  If you're like my friends taking summer intensive language classes, you'll end up dreaming in Greek.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Christian Alexander
    Christian Alexander Member Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭

    I agree with MJ and MAB. Learning the hard stuff of a language is key to knowing how to read the text better. 

    See this book.  The Pronunciation of New Testament Greek: Judeo-Palestinian Greek  Phonology and Orthography from Alexander to Islam (Eerdmans Language Resources) by Benjamin Kantor

    https://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Koine-Pronunciation-2012.pdf 

    https://www.polisjerusalem.org/koine-greek-pronunciation-%EF%BB%BF/ 

    https://www.koinegreek.com/

    Does any of this fit what you need/want?

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    MJ. Smith said:

    Not that I know of but you might google phonetics transliteration for each of the two common pronunciation schemes. 

    Nothing much showed up, but that's ok. For what I am trying to achieve, knowing the exact right pronunciation is not necessary. 

    MJ. Smith said:

    If you're like my friends taking summer intensive language classes, you'll end up dreaming in Greek.

    Unfortunately, you're prophetic because I've been spending all of my time on Greek while doing the absolute bare minimum needed on the professional side to keep the chains moving.

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    I agree with MJ and MAB. Learning the hard stuff of a language is key to knowing how to read the text better. 

    See this book.  The Pronunciation of New Testament Greek: Judeo-Palestinian Greek  Phonology and Orthography from Alexander to Islam (Eerdmans Language Resources) by Benjamin Kantor

    https://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Koine-Pronunciation-2012.pdf 

    https://www.polisjerusalem.org/koine-greek-pronunciation-%EF%BB%BF/ 

    https://www.koinegreek.com/

    Does any of this fit what you need/want?

    Thank you Christian. The last link looks promising.

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • Rick Brannan
    Rick Brannan MVP Posts: 258

    1Cor10 31 said:

    Maybe, others can relate to this type of explanation and they understand how the alphabet or word would sound. My brain can't process such statements. That is why I was looking for phonetic equivalents so I can learn to pronounce the right way

    Do you have the Pronunciation tool? There is some documentation within the tool that provides information on pronunciation, including audio. Tools -> Pronunciation. Select "Greek (Koine)" from the drop-down. Then go to the kebab (three vertical dots) and select "Information". You'll see a page that looks like the below. Blue links should provide audio.

    Rick Brannan | Bluesky: rickbrannan.com

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31">Maybe, others can relate to this type of explanation and they understand how the alphabet or word would sound. My brain can't process such statements. That is why I was looking for phonetic equivalents so I can learn to pronounce the right way

    Do you have the Pronunciation tool? There is some documentation within the tool that provides information on pronunciation, including audio. Tools -> Pronunciation. Select "Greek (Koine)" from the drop-down. Then go to the kebab (three vertical dots) and select "Information". You'll see a page that looks like the below. Blue links should provide audio.

    Thank you Rick. I do have the Pronunciation tool, but didn't know the "Information" panel. Very handy indeed. Thank you.

    I was looking for a feature like the "Read Aloud" feature that you see with English Bibles. i guess there is not much demand for such a feature.

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas Member Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31 said:

    I was looking for a feature like the "Read Aloud" feature that you see with English Bibles.

    If you want AUDIO "Read Aloud", I recommend

    John Schwandt. 2009. The Audio Greek New Testament. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

    https://www.logos.com/product/184688/the-greek-audio-new-testament-na27-audio 

    I frequently listen to the original language audio of a text I am preaching to listen for mnemonic devices (repetitive sounds) that may not carry over into English.

    Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31">I was looking for a feature like the "Read Aloud" feature that you see with English Bibles.

    If you want AUDIO "Read Aloud", I recommend

    John Schwandt. 2009. The Audio Greek New Testament. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

    https://www.logos.com/product/184688/the-greek-audio-new-testament-na27-audio 

    I frequently listen to the original language audio of a text I am preaching to listen for mnemonic devices (repetitive sounds) that may not carry over into English.

    This is near perfect for my needs. Thank you so much for pointing this out. As it turns out, I also have this resource (it seems to have come as part of some base package).

    I say "near perfect" and not "perfect" because it looks like I can only move from one chapter to another. There doesn't seem to be a way to specify a passage and have that passage alone read aloud to me. Am I right, David?

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas Member Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31 said:

    There doesn't seem to be a way to specify a passage and have that passage alone read aloud to me. Am I right, David?

    I open my NA28 Resource to whatever verse I want then CTRL-R--the moving blue dot helps with word-by-word.

    Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    1Cor10 31">There doesn't seem to be a way to specify a passage and have that passage alone read aloud to me. Am I right, David?

    I open my NA28 Resource to whatever verse I want then CTRL-R--the moving blue dot helps with word-by-word.

    Thank you so much for continuing to offer help. 

    I don't see the Read Aloud Feature. Please see screenshot below. Should I buy some resource to activate this feature. I have the Full Feature set already.

     

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas Member Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭

    If I recall correctly, there is an NA28 with apparatus, and one without apparatus. I’m away from my computer this afternoon to verify the resource ID of mine (that works). I’ll check back in in the morning, but in the meantime another user/ logos employee may have some advice about which resources work with the audio. 

    Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).

  • 1Cor10 31
    1Cor10 31 Member Posts: 811 ✭✭✭

    If I recall correctly, there is an NA28 with apparatus, and one without apparatus. I’m away from my computer this afternoon to verify the resource ID of mine (that works). I’ll check back in in the morning, but in the meantime another user/ logos employee may have some advice about which resources work with the audio. 

    I typed in na28 in my library and I got the following:

    I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.

  • John Fidel
    John Fidel MVP Posts: 3,481

    If you open NA28 and then click on the three dots (hamburger) as show below do you see read aloud?

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas Member Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭

    These are the NA27 and NA28 that have the speaker icon in my library (notice the Interlinear does NOT)

    Here is the support info for my NA28

    Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).