BUG: Factbook Commentaries - Type
Factbook Mt 24:1-46
Comparison with Passage Guide (Left.side of screenshots)
NIGTC Mt is not included with Apparatus
Different sort order for Devotional
Different sort order for Exegetical, Expositional (too numerous to show)
Bible Notes and Study Bible are not included.
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
Comments
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Also note that series are not grouped for my uses which weakens Mark's case for book vs. priority.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks for these reports, Dave!
Dave Hooton said:NIGTC Mt is not included with Apparatus
This was a resource metadata issue that has been fixed for that book. We have a case to do a more thorough audit of other resources.
Dave Hooton said:Different sort order for Devotional... Exegetical, Expositional
Resources with the same default priority are secondary-sorted in Passage Guide on Rating. If feasible, we'll do the same for Factbook.
Dave Hooton said:Bible Notes and Study Bible are not included.
Straight-up bug. Thanks for the catch.
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Adam Borries (Logos) said:Dave Hooton said:
NIGTC Mt is not included with Apparatus
This was a resource metadata issue that has been fixed for that book.
Meaning that NIGTC is not Apparatus?
Adam Borries (Logos) said:Resources with the same default priority are secondary-sorted in Passage Guide on Rating. If feasible, we'll do the same for Factbook.
Under Exegetical Passage Guide has NICNT-Mt as #2 whilst Factbook has it as #20! Yet it is my #2 prioritized commentary.?
Are you using Logos' "default priority" in Factbook which is much lower than my prioritization, which appears to be used in PG?
Is Rating the same as Book Rating in Books Search?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Meaning that NIGTC is not Apparatus?
No; it is. it was just a matter of casing. Factbook is case-sensitive resource metadata where PG is not. We had it marked as
commentary-purpose:Apparatus,rather thancommentary-purpose:apparatus. as it should have been (and is now).Dave Hooton said:Are you using Logos' "default priority" in Factbook
Both Factbook and Passage Guide should be using user-selected priority first, and default priority order otherwise.
- Highest user (override) priority
- Highest default priority value
- If default priority values tie, secondary sort on:
- Passage Guide: Rating (yes, the same Rating as in Library and search collections).
- Factbook: Currently, it's using resource ID as a tie breaker, which of course isn't very useful.
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Dave Hooton said:
Under Exegetical Passage Guide has NICNT-Mt as #2 whilst Factbook has it as #20! Yet it is my #2 prioritized commentary.?
LLS:NICNT61MT has one of the highest default priorities, and ought to be at or near the top, unless you have prioritized other commentaries above it.
- Are you saying that you have explicitly set it as your #2 commentary in the Library?
- If so, is it the NICNT series, or just this volume?
- What is your #1? Is your #1 commentary respected?
- Is NICNT-Mt mis-ordered only in the Type grouping (Exegetical), or in other groupings as well, like Era?
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Adam Borries (Logos) said:
- Are you saying that you have explicitly set it as your #2 commentary in the Library?
- If so, is it the NICNT series, or just this volume?
- What is your #1? Is your #1 commentary respected?
- Is NICNT-Mt mis-ordered only in the Type grouping (Exegetical), or in other groupings as well, like Era?
- the NICNT series is #2 in Library, not the volume
- My #1 is Bible Knowledge Commenytary (BKC) and it is respected
- NICNT is respected in Era, under Contemporary, but not respected in Book.
Another book similarly not respected in Exegetical is HK New Testament Commentary, prioritzed as a series at #23:
- in PG it is #10 (incl. NICNT-Mt) but it is omitted in Factbook
- many other books are mis-ordered
What makes comprehension difficult in Factbook is not using the naming convention of PG
- using the full Title in place of Abbreviated title to the extent that the Author/Date detail is not visible e.g. LLS:CMMNWTSTMNTVRSB
- abbreviating the Logos series name instead of using the user series name e.g. ACNT (Augsburg Commentary on the New Testament) instead of Augsburg Commentary (user series).
- abbreviating the Abbreviated title e.g. NBC instead of New Bible Commentary
- also, it used the Book citation instead of Article citation
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
in Exegetical HK New Testament Commentary... is omitted in Factbook
I take this to refer to Hendriksen & Kistemaker New Testament Commentary, specifically LLS:29.45.18. It's listed 17th in my Exegetical grouping (I don't have it prioritized), appearing as:
> New Testament Commentary · Matt 24:1-45 Hendriksen, William (1973)Can you check again, just to make it is actually omitted, and not merely appearing as a title you didn't expect?
- If it omitted, is it also missing from any grouping besides "Exegetical"?
- It if is not omitted, can you confirm if is is in the expected order, or not?
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Dave Hooton said:
What makes comprehension difficult in Factbook is not using the naming convention of PG
It is the same naming logic, with the major exception that we aren't getting custom, user-created titles or series names when running online. We made the intention choice to use the web app's apis for this section's results, so that we can return users' cloud resources. The tradeoff is the limitation that the web app doesn't yet have some of the desktop's features; those are supported in the Factbook Commentaries section when running offline.
- Online: Results from Cloud Books.
- Offline: Results from Personal Books; custom user titles and series names
Expected behavior for commentary names in Factbook (as currently designed)
Offline (same as desktop Passage Guide):
User-edited series name > seriesAbbreviation from resource > full series title from resource > user custom short title > short title from resource > full resource title
Online:
User-edited series name > seriesAbbreviation from resource > full series title from resource > user custom short title > short title from resource > full resource title
Possible improvement
Apart from respecting user titles/series (which isn't feasible for this release), a possible short-term improvement we make to the title length, is to prefer short titles. In other words:
seriesAbbreviation > short resource title > full series title > full resource titleOr, perhaps we could always use whichever is shorter.
Thoughts?
Dave Hooton said:New Bible Commentary... used the Book citation instead of Article citation
Ah, on the book vs article author; another good catch. This seems related to your other thread on Author grouping.
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Adam Borries (Logos) said:
I take this to refer to Hendriksen & Kistemaker New Testament Commentary, specifically LLS:29.45.18. It's listed 17th in my Exegetical grouping (I don't have it prioritized), appearing as:
> New Testament Commentary · Matt 24:1-45 Hendriksen, William (1973)Can you check again, just to make it is actually omitted, and not merely appearing as a title you didn't expect?
I changed the Series and Abbrev. Title names because New Testament Commentary and NTC Mt are not definitive. It is listed at #22, but is #10 in PG.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Adam Borries (Logos) said:
Apart from respecting user titles/series (which isn't feasible for this release), a possible short-term improvement we make to the title length, is to prefer short titles. In other words:
seriesAbbreviation > short resource title > full series title > full resource titleOr, perhaps we could always use whichever is shorter.
I set my longest titles to PG rules i.e. custom abbreviated when resource abbrev. is absent or long.
So short resource title would be a compromise, but better than full resource for some titles.
Why is New Testament Commentary not abbreviated to NTC?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Why is New Testament Commentary not abbreviated to NTC?
It looks like an abbreviated series has not been set for that resource/ series, probably because we follow the abbreviation conventions in the SBL Handbook of Style, and that series doesn't appear in that list. We have a case to expand abbreviated series to more resources; I'll add this thread to that case.
Do you have a recommendation for an authoritative source we could use for commentary series abbreviations, to supplement SBL?
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Adam Borries (Logos) said:
Do you have a recommendation for an authoritative source we could use for commentary series abbreviations, to supplement SBL?
No. New Testament Commentary is not sufficiently definitive, similar to using the Title of most commentaries to identify them!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Beta 4 has addressed my concerns as well as the issues. Thank you.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks for the confirmation, Dave.
Some color on the releasee notes:
As mentioned above, the original (and still eventual) design was to use the same apis for Commentaries in Factbook on desktop as it uses on the web and mobile apps. Again, the intent there was mostly to serve users with Cloud Books. But since custom user resource metadata isn't yet used by those apis, we were aware that we wouldn't be be able to display users' titles and series names, which we thought was acceptable. But your reports helped us realized that series names where also affecting priority, which is pretty significant.
The change in beta 4 switches to using local data generation, so it should be 100% parity with Commentaries in Guidebook. When we decide build support for user resource metadata for online apis, we'll revisit this.
Thank you very much for helping us track this down!
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