BUG: Factbook Commentaries - Type

Dave Hooton

Factbook Mt 24:1-46

Comparison with Passage Guide (Left.side of screenshots)

NIGTC Mt is not included with Apparatus

Different sort order for Devotional

Different sort order for Exegetical, Expositional (too numerous to show)

Bible Notes and Study Bible are not included.

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Comments

MJ. Smith

Also note that series are not grouped for my uses which weakens Mark's case for book vs. priority.

Adam Borries (Logos)

Thanks for these reports, Dave!

NIGTC Mt is not included with Apparatus

This was a resource metadata issue that has been fixed for that book. We have a case to do a more thorough audit of other resources.

Different sort order for Devotional... Exegetical, Expositional

Resources with the same default priority are secondary-sorted in Passage Guide on Rating. If feasible, we'll do the same for Factbook.

Bible Notes and Study Bible are not included.

Straight-up bug. Thanks for the catch.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300859#Comment_1300859

NIGTC Mt is not included with Apparatus

This was a resource metadata issue that has been fixed for that book.

Meaning that NIGTC is not Apparatus?

Resources with the same default priority are secondary-sorted in Passage Guide on Rating. If feasible, we'll do the same for Factbook.

Under Exegetical Passage Guide has NICNT-Mt as #2 whilst Factbook has it as #20! Yet it is my #2 prioritized commentary.?

Are you using Logos' "default priority" in Factbook which is much lower than my prioritization, which appears to be used in PG?

Is Rating the same as Book Rating in Books Search?

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300871#Comment_1300871

Meaning that NIGTC is not Apparatus?

No; it is. it was just a matter of casing. Factbook is case-sensitive resource metadata where PG is not. We had it marked as commentary-purpose:Apparatus, rather than commentary-purpose:apparatus. as it should have been (and is now).

Are you using Logos' "default priority" in Factbook

Both Factbook and Passage Guide should be using user-selected priority first, and default priority order otherwise.

Highest user (override) priority
Highest default priority value
If default priority values tie, secondary sort on:

Passage Guide: Rating (yes, the same Rating as in Library and search collections).
Factbook: Currently, it's using resource ID as a tie breaker, which of course isn't very useful.

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300871#Comment_1300871

Under Exegetical Passage Guide has NICNT-Mt as #2 whilst Factbook has it as #20! Yet it is my #2 prioritized commentary.?

LLS:NICNT61MT has one of the highest default priorities, and ought to be at or near the top, unless you have prioritized other commentaries above it.

Are you saying that you have explicitly set it as your #2 commentary in the Library?
If so, is it the NICNT series, or just this volume?
What is your #1? Is your #1 commentary respected?
Is NICNT-Mt mis-ordered only in the Type grouping (Exegetical), or in other groupings as well, like Era?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300885#Comment_1300885

Are you saying that you have explicitly set it as your #2 commentary in the Library?

If so, is it the NICNT series, or just this volume?

What is your #1? Is your #1 commentary respected?

Is NICNT-Mt mis-ordered only in the Type grouping (Exegetical), or in other groupings as well, like Era?

the NICNT series is #2 in Library, not the volume
My #1 is Bible Knowledge Commenytary (BKC) and it is respected
NICNT is respected in Era, under Contemporary, but not respected in Book.

Another book similarly not respected in Exegetical is HK New Testament Commentary, prioritzed as a series at #23:

in PG it is #10 (incl. NICNT-Mt) but it is omitted in Factbook
many other books are mis-ordered

What makes comprehension difficult in Factbook is not using the naming convention of PG

using the full Title in place of Abbreviated title to the extent that the Author/Date detail is not visible e.g. LLS:CMMNWTSTMNTVRSB
abbreviating the Logos series name instead of using the user series name e.g. ACNT (Augsburg Commentary on the New Testament) instead of Augsburg Commentary (user series).
abbreviating the Abbreviated title e.g. NBC instead of New Bible Commentary

also, it used the Book citation instead of Article citation

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300905#Comment_1300905

in Exegetical HK New Testament Commentary... is omitted in Factbook

I take this to refer to Hendriksen & Kistemaker New Testament Commentary, specifically LLS:29.45.18. It's listed 17th in my Exegetical grouping (I don't have it prioritized), appearing as:
> New Testament Commentary · Matt 24:1-45 Hendriksen, William (1973)

Can you check again, just to make it is actually omitted, and not merely appearing as a title you didn't expect?

If it omitted, is it also missing from any grouping besides "Exegetical"?
It if is not omitted, can you confirm if is is in the expected order, or not?

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300905#Comment_1300905

What makes comprehension difficult in Factbook is not using the naming convention of PG

It is the same naming logic, with the major exception that we aren't getting custom, user-created titles or series names when running online. We made the intention choice to use the web app's apis for this section's results, so that we can return users' cloud resources. The tradeoff is the limitation that the web app doesn't yet have some of the desktop's features; those are supported in the Factbook Commentaries section when running offline.

Online: Results from Cloud Books.
Offline: Results from Personal Books; custom user titles and series names

Expected behavior for commentary names in Factbook (as currently designed)

Offline (same as desktop Passage Guide):

User-edited series name > seriesAbbreviation from resource > full series title from resource > user custom short title > short title from resource > full resource title

Online:

User-edited series name > seriesAbbreviation from resource > full series title from resource > user custom short title > short title from resource > full resource title

Possible improvement

Apart from respecting user titles/series (which isn't feasible for this release), a possible short-term improvement we make to the title length, is to prefer short titles. In other words:
seriesAbbreviation > short resource title > full series title > full resource title

Or, perhaps we could always use whichever is shorter.

Thoughts?

New Bible Commentary... used the Book citation instead of Article citation

Ah, on the book vs article author; another good catch. This seems related to your other thread on Author grouping.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1301118#Comment_1301118

I take this to refer to Hendriksen & Kistemaker New Testament Commentary, specifically LLS:29.45.18. It's listed 17th in my Exegetical grouping (I don't have it prioritized), appearing as:
> New Testament Commentary · Matt 24:1-45 Hendriksen, William (1973)

Can you check again, just to make it is actually omitted, and not merely appearing as a title you didn't expect?

I changed the Series and Abbrev. Title names because New Testament Commentary and NTC Mt are not definitive. It is listed at #22, but is #10 in PG.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1301120#Comment_1301120

Apart from respecting user titles/series (which isn't feasible for this release), a possible short-term improvement we make to the title length, is to prefer short titles. In other words:
seriesAbbreviation > short resource title > full series title > full resource title

Or, perhaps we could always use whichever is shorter.

I set my longest titles to PG rules i.e. custom abbreviated when resource abbrev. is absent or long.

So short resource title would be a compromise, but better than full resource for some titles.

Why is New Testament Commentary not abbreviated to NTC?

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1301127#Comment_1301127

Why is New Testament Commentary not abbreviated to NTC?

It looks like an abbreviated series has not been set for that resource/ series, probably because we follow the abbreviation conventions in the SBL Handbook of Style, and that series doesn't appear in that list. We have a case to expand abbreviated series to more resources; I'll add this thread to that case.

Do you have a recommendation for an authoritative source we could use for commentary series abbreviations, to supplement SBL?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1301184#Comment_1301184

Do you have a recommendation for an authoritative source we could use for commentary series abbreviations, to supplement SBL?

No. New Testament Commentary is not sufficiently definitive, similar to using the Title of most commentaries to identify them!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1301214#Comment_1301214

Beta 4 has addressed my concerns as well as the issues. Thank you.

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1302493#Comment_1302493

Thanks for the confirmation, Dave.

Some color on the releasee notes:

As mentioned above, the original (and still eventual) design was to use the same apis for Commentaries in Factbook on desktop as it uses on the web and mobile apps. Again, the intent there was mostly to serve users with Cloud Books. But since custom user resource metadata isn't yet used by those apis, we were aware that we wouldn't be be able to display users' titles and series names, which we thought was acceptable. But your reports helped us realized that series names where also affecting priority, which is pretty significant.

The change in beta 4 switches to using local data generation, so it should be 100% parity with Commentaries in Guidebook. When we decide build support for user resource metadata for online apis, we'll revisit this.

Thank you very much for helping us track this down!