Subscription comparison chart

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

Holy cow!  This makes me feel even better about what I'm paying for.  I didn't realize I had so much - a bit overwhelming.  Good stuff.  Thank you.

I'm guessing the Bible Study Builder feature is in beta or not out yet... If this is what it sounds like, it could be amazing.

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

Bill Anderson said:

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

I've now highlighted new features in blue. Everything that's part of early access or in beta is listed, and at least one feature which hasn't been announced before but should be coming fairly soon. There are some other things we're also building that aren't in the list at all yet.

Thanks for providing what is listed here - any chance it can be updated to include notation of what would be included in the Fallback License?

Thanks Mark, this is an impressive list! For when you get back from vacation lol, at some point, will we be able to tell what features are new to us based on what we have bought? I am really having a hard time figuring out what level makes the most sense to me. Thanks Mark for considering this!

Will there be a similar spreadsheet for Verbum subscriptions and/or german language subscriptions?

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

I'm going on vacation tomorrow, but I'll see what I can do.

Enjoy your vacation Mark.  You very much deserve it!

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

I've now highlighted new features in blue. Everything that's part of early access or in beta is listed, and at least one feature which hasn't been announced before but should be coming fairly soon. There are some other things we're also building that aren't in the list at all yet.

Mark: Thank you putting out this table. This chart is the most helpful thing you've put out in the last month or so to help customers. 

1. Highlighting the new features and the features that are being worked on is super helpful. Uncertainty of what we are paying for could keep people away from a wonderful product. So please continue to update the spreadsheet or in other form to highlight the features that are new being worked on. 

Aaron Hamilton said:

please include an additional column identifying whether or not the feature will be included in the legacy fallback license. 

2. I am going to second Aaron. Please highlight what features will be included in Legacy Fallback License.

3. Relatedly, I would also request a column to indicate whether the feature is Cloud or AI or Neither since only non-cloud/AI features will be included in Legacy Fallback License. The reason I am asking for this is because it will give us a sense for what features you consider cloud (guessing AI feature is straightforward based on feature name, I am assuming). 

Thank you. 

So after lookin at the Gsheet, it seems I some of features under Logos Pro (As I bought Preaching Suite, I actually have Logos starter features by default). So I guess if I upgrade to L11, I'll be downgraded to L11 Free unless I subscribe to Pro. But if I keep my L10 install, I get to use the features I have. Am I getting this right? Tnx

Graham Criddle said:

Under the new model, upgrading is taking out a subscription - to either Premier, Pro or Max. If you do that, you will get any additional features made available in those while retaining the features you currently own.

If you don't take out a subscription then you will continue to own the features you currently have and continue to get updates to the software engine as is currently the case.

And if I may add... (I think I understand this right)... that if you buy some of the books in the subscription plan while you are subscribed to a subscription, then you keep those books also should you quit the subscription. 

For me the subscription is great! I don't loose what I have plus I get all the new features as they come out (and I think the new features will come out in subscription first (after beta of course)).   

And one bonus of subscriptions... you get a whole bunch of books with the subscription. You get to try them, use them, decide if you want them or not. I think that's a huge bonus! 

Graham Criddle said:

Daniel Wurzberg said:

(As I bought Preaching Suite, I actually have Logos starter features by default).

Do you mean that you bought Logos Starter?

If so, you will own all the features included in both Starter and the Preaching Suite

Daniel Wurzberg said:

So I guess if I upgrade to L11, I'll be downgraded to L11 Free unless I subscribe to Pro. But if I keep my L10 install, I get to use the features I have

Under the new model, upgrading is taking out a subscription - to either Premier, Pro or Max. If you do that, you will get any additional features made available in those while retaining the features you currently own.

If you don't take out a subscription then you will continue to own the features you currently have and continue to get updates to the software engine as is currently the case.

Does that mean there is no plan in the fall to provide a traditional purchase option for Logos 11?  Some sort of subscription is the only option for Logos 11 features?

Frank Sauer said:

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier. Then, begin converting more seminaries to package subscriptions. The pastors can tag along with 'Pro'. 

But regarding BetMGM, I seemed to have purchased all the L10 features. At least now there's none I don't own. The experience flashed by over maybe 2 minutes. I'm sure the L11 features will be similar.

Frank Sauer said:

DMB said:

Frank Sauer said:

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier. Then, begin converting more seminaries to package subscriptions. The pastors can tag along with 'Pro'. 

But regarding BetMGM, I seemed to have purchased all the L10 features. At least now there's none I don't own. The experience flashed by over maybe 2 minutes. I'm sure the L11 features will be similar.

I will admit that I get a little more than you may from the L10 full feature set, but have little confidence that L11 has anything close that you will be able to own... I'm torn between Logos just slow rolling the release of what is going to be considered Fallback eligible and what is not or if they are taking so long because they are embarrassed that it is currently instant light dark mode because all the emphasis is on AI related projects thus far - oh and they don't know what they will be able to offer in two years..... Still believe that there should be some form of refund/prorated refund for customers that pay for two years and look at what they get to keep with complete regret because it is not worth the cost.... Doubt it would be offered, because they and the supporters would argue that you received the benefits of all the AI stuff - even if you don't want or use it.... Notice when asked what if we don't care about the extra books that you don't get to keep, or the AI features - it was ignored and never responded to, other than you won't receive the subscription benefits - even though it was clearly stated that wasn't cared about - we only want to pay for features that we could own after two years.....

They can say you won't be forced into a subscription, but it is EXACTLY what their goal is....

Frank,

Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised at the end of 2 years.  We definitely need to keep providing feedback and be respectfully vocal when needed.  After all, without the vocal faction, we would not even have a fallback option.  I do have some concern that the desktop features may be minimal as the are not the focus and it's not just AI being excluded from the fallback license.  For instance, is the newly designed Help section going to be excluded.  That would definitely be a poor choice on their part.  

I've been in he IT field too long and am pretty good at reading playbooks.  I believe that we who have purchased the features already are still in the majority and honestly don't see a whole new wave of customer coming onboard as a result of their model change.  That still gives us leverage whether they like it or not.  If, at the end of two years, all I see is fluff, then I can simply take my Logos 10 Full Features and any new ones and opt out. I'm in for the 2 years but I definitely expect something at the end of the two years.  

They are obviously focused heavily on their subscription model and if they try to do things like force people to be subscribed just to buy packages, that will definitely backfire.  I still hope the numbers show them over time that they need to keep the permanent license option and offer it as a standalone alternative option as well as something that can be part of a subscription.  Time will tell.  Meanwhile, let's keep watching and providing feedback to help guide them.

Someone help a brother out please... I'm too old, and brain damaged (five strokes, and counting) to decipher whether I'll retain what I have right now or lose some/all functionality after Faithlife transitions to the new business model. Someone? Anyone?  Thanks in advance

This is great and larger than I imagined. I hope a cleaned up version can be put on the website in the future for people deciding between the 3. It would also be nice to know what came in the L10 Full Feature Set with some type of note on there. I only subscribed to Pro but I feel like I had some of the items that were in Max from the FFS. I could be wrong though.

Berechiah said:

Do you get to keep the books also after the end of the 2 years? 

If you mean the books which are specifically part of the subscription, as of right now, unless you have actually purchased those prior to the end of your subscription, then no. We have been told that those books are not part of the fall-back license. Only features are so covered.

I believe so. Tho, I think It's better to buy legacy libraries, and get most of those books for a better price. 

I find this whole situation funny a bit, as I never thought that I "need" full feature upgrade. But now that I might get a better discount for the sub model, I might cash out and buy the "old L100 full feature" so that I can pay less for the new in subscription. lol 

DMB said:

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier.

I not at all sure the subscription plan will be successful.  But I admit I am capable of being wrong about that. 

Students?  From my student days, it would be extremely difficult to afford subscriptions.  The "subscriptions" for rent, food, utilities, & tuition would make adding a Logos subscription impractical.  And what % of Logos users are "top tier" now?