Official: Here's what's included/excluded from the Legacy Fallback License

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I think this may be a stupid question, but will still ask. [:)]

I'm currently a Pro subscriber. If I keep the subscription for two years, I'll get the LFL. Logos Pro includes the Logos Research Commentaries. Would this series be included in my LFL?

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

We do not have plans to make LFL a purchaseable product.

Mark, although it's not in the plans now, at least consider selling the non-cloud features after a period in which the subscription has already benefited subscribers with new features, but now they are “old” features. The following example makes the idea more understandable:

In 2026, when everyone who has subscribed receives the eligible LFL features, there could be a “feature pack” from the year 2025 for purchase by those who haven't subscribed at a prorated value that more or less corresponds to a subscription to those non-cloud features. These non-cloud features are no longer new and have already been paid for with the subscription.

This would keep subscribers like me who like new features fresh, as well as allowing the less enthusiastic basic user (there are many) to add improvements to the software engine and features from time to time. There could be a lag of a year or two for these improvements to be purchased by non-subscribers.

I keep wondering how Logos will manage and differentiate all the various levels of functionality that users have with the new subscription model.

I see that there is now an attempt to establish a common baseline for everyone with the Full Feature Set of Logos 10. But we know that not everyone will buy it. And many users in the future will come with zero features, paying the full subscription price. With the previous purchasing and dynamic pricing model, it was "easy" to calculate the differences and charge a fair price for each user. But how will this be handled with the subscription model?

Every two years, new features will be added to the subscriptions so that subscribers receive all the features Logos has accumulated over the last 30 years and going forward. Today, the Max subscription includes the features of FFS-Logos 10 + LFL (v.1). In two years, the Max subscription will include the features of FFS-Logos 10 + LFL (v.1) + LFL (v.2), and so on.

Imagine two years from now (2026), two users. Both have FFS-Logos10. But one did not subscribe and did not receive LFL-1 (2025-2026); the other subscribed for two years and received LFL-1 (2025-2026). Will both pay the same Max subscription price in 2027-2028?

Multiply these differences over the next 30 years of Logos. How will these differences in the features of different user accounts be differentiated and compensated for in subscription prices?

This seems like a huge complication to me! There are two possibilities: either subscriptions will become increasingly expensive for new and old users who didn’t receive successive LFLs, making subscriptions unviable over the years; or continuous subscribers will end up paying again for what they already received.

I am just a mere Logos user, and there are certainly smarter minds than mine working at Faithlife, but I, a mere mortal, can only conceive of two possibilities: The first is that the subscription will have a dynamic pricing component based on the features inherited from Logos 1 to Logos 10 and the successive LFLs. The second is that an occasional cumulative package of old (non-cloud) features will be sold so that those who wish to subscribe will have a common initial baseline for subscription levels. Like an entry fee!

Quick Question: Is there a deadline that L10 users need to sign up for the new subscriptions to lock in a LFL? Thanks!

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

Nathan Parker said:

Quick Question: Is there a deadline that L10 users need to sign up for the new subscriptions to lock in a LFL? Thanks!

Not yet. We might impose one in the future, but we'll give plenty of notice if we do.

Perfect. Thanks!

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

As a reminder, the LFL will be granted to subscribers after two years of continual subscription as a kind of "safety net" if you find you're no longer able to subscribe. That means you can be confident that you'll be able to use many Logos features long into the future. Perks and most books are not included in the LFL.

If you already own any of these features, their presence on this list does NOT mean they will be taken away from you. It just means that people without these features will likely not have them granted to them via LFL.

Mark ... 

Thank you.

I was one of the moderately vocal "concerned citizens" when subscriptions were first announced ... I've been with y'all 30+ years and $32k+ with 16k+ books later, I was concerned about perpetual features, and a bit about AI.

I just want to let you know that now all the decisions have been made and info is out there with pricing, I am *VERY SATISFIED* with the solution.  I'm upgrading my Max from 1 year to 2 as soon as the sales dept gets that order code sorted out.

THANK YOU for dealing with the worried grumblers like me.  You dun gud!

On Sept.11, 2024, Mark Barnes wrote:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

After many, many, requests, I'm finally able to give more details on what is likely to be included and excluded from the Legacy Fallback License (LFL). I'm sorry it's taken so long.

As a reminder, the LFL will be granted to subscribers after two years of continual subscription as a kind of "safety net" if you find you're no longer able to subscribe. That means you can be confident that you'll be able to use many Logos features long into the future. Perks and most books are not included in the LFL.

Mark went on to write:

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

The first LFL will not be issued until October 2026, and many more features will be added between now and then. This list only deals with current features (including early access features). If possible, we'll try to identify whether future features will likely be eligible for the LFL when they are released.

In my case, I became an "Early Access" subscriber on April 14, 2024. So two years would take me to April 13, 2026.

But then Mark says that "The first LFL will not be issued until October 2026." In my case, 6 months later.

So which is it? After two years of continual subscription, or after two years from October 2024?

Peter G

I’ve asked about this too. 
my understanding is that since the subscriptions weren’t “official” nor at their final price levels and categories until Aug-Oct-ish, Octover is being used for that fallback determination date - keep in mind that what one falls back TO is based on what level of subscription one has maintained - and there were no “levels” in early access initially. 

The ADVANTAGE of having maintained a continuous subscription from the early days is that any PURCHASES during that time “count towards” the initial 5% off certificate they will be first issuing next Feb-Mar(?). 

Update:

I emailed Logos Customer Support with the following questions. Their reply follows below.

I asked:

1. My subscription, starting on 14 April 2024, continues unbroken to this day.
2. What happens, if, on 15 April 2026, I cancel my subscription? (That would be over two years continuous subscription, as required.)
3. Would my installation revert to a bare-metal Logos install on that day?

1. If so, what would happen in October 2026 when FallBack Licenses are issued? Would my eligible features then be restored?
2. What will happen to my installation during the 6 months (April-October 2026) in that situation?

Logos Customer Support replied:

1 - The software would revert back to what has been paid for on the account. 

 2- A fallback license would be applied to the account with the qualifying features at that time. We do not have a list of features that will be available at that time. 

 3 - Same answer to #1. 

So now we know?? WHEN WOULD THE FALLBACK LICENSE be applied? April or October? What happens between times?