Why no Talmud?

As far as I can tell, Logos carries two English translations of the Talmud (Rodkinson and Neusner) but no original Talmud. This seems to me to be a rather ridiculous oversight, and yet I'm having trouble myself even identifying the edition and printing that I want Logos to take up. Can anyone help me identifying a standard and available version that Logos might consider? And can Logos please pick up an original version of the Talmud?

Thanks!

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DAL

How about a link to the “Original Talmud” and who the author is. Not everyone knows there’s an original version like you do. Post links and post a request on the feedback website, that way you can provide a solution instead of just a complaint about it.

Thanks!

DAL

Fabian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319569#Comment_1319569

How about a link to the “Original Talmud” and who the author is. Not everyone knows there’s an original version like you do. Post links and post a request on the feedback website, that way you can provide a solution instead of just a complaint about it.

Thanks!

DAL

In my opinion you are rude. He asked politely, but your answer is the one I label it as "Logos advocates". Yell down all what could stand on the feet of Logos.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319569#Comment_1319569

Not everyone knows there’s an original version like you do.

Are you telling me that Logos/Verbum users don't recognize that a translator as author implies an original in another language? Fortunately, the all search puts an answer at one's fingertips whether or not you have the smart search as it often appears as a headword in Bible dictionaries.

[quote]

The Talmud is a comprehensive collection of Jewish wisdom, law, and commentary compiled between approximately 250-700 C.E.[1][2][3]. It consists of two main parts: the Mishnah, which is a codification of oral legal teachings, and the Gemara, which provides commentary and interpretation on the Mishnah[2][3]. The Hebrew word "talmud" means "study" or "learning," reflecting its role as a repository of Jewish knowledge[1][4]. The Talmud exists in two versions: the Palestinian (also known as Jerusalem) Talmud and the more extensive Babylonian Talmud, with the latter being the most widely used and studied by religious Jews[3][5]. This work covers a vast array of subjects, including philosophy, history, astronomy, dietary laws, and scientific debates, demonstrating the Jewish scholars' deep thirst for learning and understanding[1]. The Talmud serves not only as a guide to following Jewish law but also as a basis for spiritual formation, playing a crucial role in shaping Jewish life and culture[1][2][3].

[1] Ronald F. Youngblood, F. F. Bruce, and R. K. Harrison, Thomas Nelson Publishers, eds., Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson, Inc., 1995).
[2] Allen C. Myers, The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1987), 982.
[3] JPS Guide: The Jewish Bible (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society, 2008), 242.
[4] Stephenson Humphries-Brooks, “Talmud,” in Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary, ed. Chad Brand et al. (Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers, 2003), 1555.
[5] Karin Hedner Zetterholm, Jewish Interpretation of the Bible: Ancient and Contemporary (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2012), 191.

While I agree that many Logos users would stop at the Talmud being some sort of basic Jewish text, I would expect most to be able to date it to not long after the diaspora and a significant number to be able to identify it as somehow related to the argument over the role of oral teaching tradition is Judaism and Christianity. In other words, I would include it among terms like Peshitta, Vulgate, Septuagint, Talmud, Tanakh ... that are common knowledge rather than things I'd have to define. But years on the forum have taught me that there is so much diversity on the forums that the whole concept of "common knowledge" breaks down. A recent example was the use of "carnal Christian" to which I gave a blank stare, not event being able to make an intelligent guess as to its meaning in context. So, give the OP a break and just look it up which is what I do ... which admittedly sometimes leaves me still confused as the underlying theology is foreign (incomprehensible even) to me.

MJ. Smith

This seems to me to be a rather ridiculous oversight,

The Noé Edition Koren Talmud Bavli (42-volume set) | Logos has gained less than a handful of votes in 2+ years despite being promoted by Rosie That should explain why there is no Talmud in Logos - lack of demand. As to why the demographics of the Logosians is so disinterested in such a basic document, you are at a disadvantage. Europeans generally are gobsmacked at how anti-intellectual American society as a whole is. PS. The Koren Talmud is a standard, available edition so you needn't hunt. It's outside my expertise but I would suspect that the Vilna Talmud and Steinsaltz Edition would also be good choices for the Babylonian Talmud. I can't even hazard a guess for the Jerusalem Talmud.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319570#Comment_1319570

How about a link to the “Original Talmud” and who the author is. Not everyone knows there’s an original version like you do. Post links and post a request on the feedback website, that way you can provide a solution instead of just a complaint about it.

Thanks!

DAL

In my opinion

Thank you very much for your opinion 👌

DAL

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319576#Comment_1319576

According to this, there was no digital critical text of the Talmud until 2022 - https://cris.haifa.ac.il/en/publications/talmud-yerushalmi-digital-critical-edition

Here is their project: https://www.talmudyerushalmi.com/

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319576#Comment_1319576

Thank you, MJ. I did find that one, and I completely understand why the such editions are not part of Logos. I wouldn't pay the $1,600 for it either... not for a body of literature that was published in full well over 1,200 years ago and is most definitely in the public domain

That's why I came here to ask for help. I know this stuff is public domain somewhere... I can't find it on the internet.

*edit* I now see that the price for the paperback edition is closer to $600, and the digital version full set is just over $300 (on the Israeli website) so that's quite different from what I said. The hardcover editions are what I had seen, and this one from Noe is $1,800 for the full set.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319569#Comment_1319569

How about a link to the “Original Talmud” and who the author is. Not everyone knows there’s an original version like you do. Post links and post a request on the feedback website, that way you can provide a solution instead of just a complaint about it.

Thanks!

DAL

I used the phrase "ridiculous oversight" which I understand might be taken as conveying disrespect. If that's how it came off to you I regret that usage. I intended rather to convey the disbelief I still feel on the subject: it would seem a ridiculous oversight except for the fact that I cannot find a proper edition of it myself.

As to your response, if you would care to re-read my post I think you will see why I didn't "Post links and post a request on the feedback website" just yet.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319639#Comment_1319639

I appreciate the response. A critical edition would be lovely! Although if a normal edition runs for $1,600 I don't think I'll be looking at a critical edition any time soon, even after it comes out. I just want the standard, public domain version that everyone reads in Yeshiva. I know there's a PDF out there somewhere on the internet.

Doug Mangum (Lexham)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320812#Comment_1320812

I use Sefaria.org since there is no Aramaic/Hebrew version of the Talmud in Logos.

https://www.sefaria.org/texts/Talmud

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323671#Comment_1323671

Thanks. I also use Sepharia, and they have a great app, but the English translation is terrible, and it's still hard for me to look stuff up because the numbering systems are different from one another.

Searching in Hebrew I've found some publications that are downloadable. But I couldn't find the publication info and I'm still looking for a version that is definitely public domain and also might form a good basis for a Logos book.

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319639#Comment_1319639

This maybe so, but there were other digital editions of the Talmud in Hebrew/Aramaic. For example, Soncino Press has long had a digital version of the Talmud, the Bar Ilan Responsa Project, Art Scroll Schottenstein 73 volumes, and Accordance Software all has had a digital Talmud (and Mishnah).

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/225932/why-no-talmud

The standard edition of the Talmud Bavli is the ש"ס וילנא (Vilna Shas) there is also the Venice Talmud. Concerning the Vilna Shas numerous digital version of this text already exist. I agree with you that It would be nice to be able to the original language texts of the Mishnah, Tosefta, Talmud, Mishneh Torah, Shulchan Aruch, Rishonim, and the Acharonim at one's fingertips in Logos Bible Software.

Fabian

Where can I vote for it?

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1344271#Comment_1344271

Here:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/244776/morphologically-tagged-ש-ס-וילנא-vilna-shas#latest

Mark Allison

Wait. Logos doesn't have a Hebrew Talmud? But they have a Hebrew Mishnah, right?

Doug Mangum (Lexham)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1351067#Comment_1351067

I don't think we have any original language Mishnah either. Talmud is Hebrew for Mishnah and typically Aramaic for the Gemara (commentary on Mishnah). Logos does have some Midrash volumes that include both original language and translation like Lauterbach's Mekhilta.

Mark Allison

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1351068#Comment_1351068

Thanks for the info Doug. I know a lot of scholars considering switching from Accordance and a Talmud and Mishnah would be important for them. Hopefully this is on Logos's radar.

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/244777/morphologically-tagged-%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A0%D7%94-mishnah