Logos 2025 Libraries

It would have been a good thing if they were available now, to avoid the confusion, but barring that, I wish there were more details about how they will be handled in the FAQ.   All the FAQ says now is that they're coming.

Hi Celt, 

I've included the new information about the denominational library launch & discounts to the subscription FAQ page.

Thank you! I've seen it there, but it seems someone edited it out or reverted the page to an old version, since it is no longer there.

As upsetting as it is, they're not coming out until next year. 

I find this library to be highly overgeneralized, largely as a result.

Does anyone have a link for denominational package?

Can I buy today with a 30% discount and then get a 30% discount on the first Verbum library purchase and an additional 30% discount on the first Denomination library purchase

Those seem more like tiers, they mostly stack, with the last two branching off.

Why did the price of the Logos 7 Legacy Libraries go up?

Wow.  You have to be a subscriber to purchase a library?  There's something seriously wrong with this. I have no need for a subscription,  but I still like to purchase books.  It seems like Logos is trying to force people to subscribe.

So it would seem.

Why did the price of the Logos 7 Legacy Libraries go up?

Not sure if this is the (only) answer but Logos put all the legacy libraries on sale leading up to today's launch.

Why did the price of the Logos 7 Legacy Libraries go up?

Did the price go up, or is it that they're no longer on sale?

Rick, Mark indicated you have to have a subscription to purchase a package, but the free trial or a one month subscription will suffice.

I get that you're trying to make this more appealing, but I'm not about to sign up for a free trial that I fully intend to cancel just to get access to another offer - that doesn't feel honest, and my conscience simply won't let me do it. FaithLife can decide (has decided) whether they'll sell me a package separately. That's their call, and they've said "no." I'm not going to game the system to get around it.

Sean, I agree that this is not a good way as many may subscribe just to purchase a package. Perhaps, it will open up once the website traffic settles down.

Seems like Logos deems this to be a good way to catch non-subscribers to subscribe ...despite the previously given impression that books and libraries were not linked to subscriptions (which solely concerned features).

Now it turns out that Logos is offering the equivalent of previous "base packages" (renamed "libraries"). These "libraries" when purchased do consist of books and features with the only difference seemingly that the features part is now on rental basis only. The books part can't be purchased independently.   During the whole time of many months of discussion here in the forum, I must have been asleep or dreaming or simply been ignorant to have the impression that we had been assured by Logos folks that one needed not to be a subscriber in order to be able to purchase books to add to our library.

Did I fall for clever marketing trickery?

Wow.  You have to be a subscriber to purchase a library?  There's something seriously wrong with this. I have no need for a subscription,  but I still like to purchase books.  It seems like Logos is trying to force people to subscribe.

It has "always" been the case (at least since Logos 5) that you needed to have the current feature set to buy the current library, so Logos hasn't changed that and is not forcing people into subscriptions. They are still nudging people into buying the latest features instead of only using the free software or keeping with their initial package purchase.

However, with subscriptions it's much easier to deal with this than it used to be. Just subscribe for one month to the lowest tier (it may even be free for trial at times, but will be extremely affordable otherwise). 

Now it turns out that Logos is offering the equivalent of previous "base packages" (renamed "libraries"). These "libraries" when purchased do consist of books and features with the only difference seemingly that the features part is now on rental basis only. The books part can't be purchased independently.   During the whole time of many months of discussion here in the forum, I must have been asleep or dreaming or simply been ignorant to have the impression that we had been assured by Logos folks that one needed not to be a subscriber in order to be able to purchase books to add to our library.

It was stated in various places - such as https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224861/1312151.aspx#1312151 

"libraries" when purchased do consist of books and features with the only difference seemingly that the features part is now on rental basis only. The books part can't be purchased independently. 

No. The libraries only consist of books. They are independent of the features. Even if there is some correspondence in the description of the subscription levels and the new three tracks of libraries, they are not combined or anything.

During the whole time of many months of discussion here in the forum, I must have been asleep or dreaming or simply been ignorant to have the impression that we had been assured by Logos folks that one needed not to be a subscriber in order to be able to purchase books to add to our library.

 

I think it has been said more than once in the forums, but it may be easy to overlook that. 

Ronald, you can use the free trial or just subscribe for a month. It was explained to me that purchase of a library package has always required the purchase of a feature set.

Did I fall for clever marketing trickery?

Words are so tricky.  Look at legal contracts.  They use incredibly complex language to close the door on exceptions, to express exactly what is included and what isn't.

I find most things most people say most of the time are generalizations...to which there are always exceptions.  I include myself in this.

Ex: Canadians like hockey.  I am Canadian and am pretty neutral towards the game.  But the generalization is true.

Ronald, you can use the free trial or just subscribe for a month...

John, you keep saying this, but it would be blatantly gaming the system. Sure, it would be something that folks like me who don't want an ongoing subscription could do to get around the rules, but is it really what you want to advocate?

... It was explained to me that purchase of a library package has always required the purchase of a feature set.

But is this explanation valid and even true?  I remember seeing different prices on certain base packages with the explanation given as one price including books and features and the other price including just the books ...

Anyhow, generally one did purchase a base package which included two integral parts - features and books (not a library package with a required feature set, nor a feature set with required books). Also, did legacy libraries require purchasing a feature set when purchased?

It is possible to simply put the subscription in your cart to and then review libraries from there. You are not purchasing anything until you confirm.

It is possible to simply put the subscription in your cart to and then review libraries from there. You are not purchasing anything until you confirm.

This is true. You can add a subscription to your cart in order to compare the varioius libraries. If you'd like to peruse each library individually you can explore all the new libraries by through this faceted search. 

... It was explained to me that purchase of a library package has always required the purchase of a feature set.

But is this explanation valid and even true?  I remember seeing different prices on certain base packages with the explanation given as one price including books and features and the other price including just the books ...

When it was first mentioned by a Logos employee that purchase of a current library had always required the purchase of a feature set, I was all set to refute that statement and I went to my purchase history for proof. What I found there was that every time I purchased a current library it was under one of three circumstances: purchased together with a feature set, purchased after I had already bought a feature set, or purchased while I had a LN/FC subscription. I had to admit then that I was wrong - you did need a feature set (owned or via subscription) to purchase a current library.

Is there a comparison chart made between the 4 libraries (Leader, Preacher, Researcher, Standard), so that you can see at a glance, what the differences are?

And is there a comparison chart made between the different levels, such as gold, diamond, platinum, etc.? I know there is one on the subscription page, but you have to slowly move down to see the different books. Surely there is something better than that!

I think each of these packages are explained very well here:

https://www.youtube.com/@PastorTanner/videos

Logos put packages together that they thought would match the various levels of subscriptions. Premier = Leader; Pro = Preacher and Max = Research as each subscription is directed to a particular audience. Of course you get whatever you want to match with your subscription.

As alway, the Standard packages are much less targeted. I personally like Standard Gold as it has some commentaries I would like in my library.

Thank you, Taylor, but I followed the link and the information is still the same.  It simply says:

When will denominational libraries be available for purchase?

2025 denominational libraries will be available in Q1 of 2025.

I think to be useful it should talk about how the discounts will be handled and if something will be lost if you wait for the denominational libraries to come out.

What is the difference between 1) Leader, 2) Preacher, 3) Researcher, and 4) Standard? I had assumed that that if I bought 4) Standard, I would get the other books in the other libraries. However, that is not the case AND I actually pay more at Standard and get less books! I don't understand that one. Can someone please clarify the differences?

It is simply three more tracks of libraries. The naming is meant to give some indication in which direction Logos was leaning when they put those tracks together, but as always it is just the list of unowned books you get that will make a specific library worth buying.

Also, if there a comparison chart made between the 4 libraries, so that you can see at a glance, what the difference is?

At the moment I don't think so - I expect there will be a comparison page which allows that in early 2025 when the denominational libraries go live. What matters: The cart will automatically treat multiple libraries dynamically (so I decided on a larger package from one of the streams and put smaller libraries fom the other streams, which then became much more affordable due to overlap).

I did see the difference in the 4 libraries and so I went back and removed that question, but thanks to those who answered before I could edit it! [:)]

However, I would still like to see a comparison chart between the 4 libraries, as well as a comparison chart between the different levels of libraries (Gold, Platinum, Diamond).

I did see the difference in the 4 libraries and so I went back and removed that question, but thanks to those who answered before I could edit it!

However, I would still like to see a comparison chart between the 4 libraries, as well as a comparison chart between the different levels of libraries (Gold, Platinum, Diamond).

I agree as there is some overlap and it would be good to see the resources side by side. Give them some time and they may have this available.

Hi Celt, 

Sorry about that, looks like my update to the FAQ was reverted. I re-added the update to the FAQ.

Ronald, you can use the free trial or just subscribe for a month...

John, you keep saying this, but it would be blatantly gaming the system. Sure, it would be something that folks like me who don't want an ongoing subscription could do to get around the rules, but is it really what you want to advocate?

EastTN,

I do understand your point of view but please consider the following.

I would agree with you IF this were a loophole that Logos had not caught or considered or didn't want used. However since it is they themselves that suggest this is an acceptable/viable method/route to being able to purchase a library without "actually" subscribing, then then I (me, myself) don't think that this would be considered gaming the system.

Just my 2 cents. None the less you still need to follow your own conscience.

Hi Celt, 

Sorry about that, looks like my update to the FAQ was reverted. I re-added the update to the FAQ.

Thanks for that! I made a screenshot, just in case:

Thanks Taylor.  It's great now.

I would recommend that, for people like me who love the denominational libraries, that you maybe make a comment next to the 2025 libraries that are being so emphasized with the launch today.  Like right below or next to any titles or announcements about the 2025 Libraries should be a comment that says (And watch for our denominational libraries coming early next year!).

Like, for example, at the top of this page:  https://www.logos.com/configure/libraries

For me, the denominational libraries are a big deal.   I was eagerly looking for them with the launch today and disappointed when I couldn't find them anywhere.

Thanks again for the FAQ change.   😁

Giving 30% for each would help your early purchasers not feel like they are giving up something by going early and help those who will be purchasing big sets in all three better budget their purchases.

Hi Chris, If you are interested in purchasing a library today, you won't be excluded from receiving a denominational discount when those libraries launch in Q1. 

Thanks for making this happen Taylor! It made the decision to purchase a library today versus waiting a no-brainer for me personally.

... However since it is they themselves that suggest this is an acceptable/viable method/route to being able to purchase a library without "actually" subscribing, then then I (me, myself) don't think that this would be considered gaming the system.

So then, Logos ("they themselves") are suggesting how to purchase a library without "actually" subscribing ?  Now, pray tell, what kind of a game on their part would that be? Why not simply offering the advertised libraries (the various 2025 collection of books) to those customers who otherwise qualify to use the suggested acceptable method/route of free trial,etc?   These libraries obviously do not contain features else there would not be the suggestion of this suggested peculiar method/route ...

Ronald, you can use the free trial or just subscribe for a month...

John, you keep saying this, but it would be blatantly gaming the system. Sure, it would be something that folks like me who don't want an ongoing subscription could do to get around the rules, but is it really what you want to advocate?

It is not my suggestion, but Mark Barnes. He has stated it several time in several posts. I am just relaying the suggestion he made to those that are asking. If it is "gaming the system" or somehow unethical then why would he even suggest it?

Just clarifying... this is not my suggestion, I am passing on a suggestion from a Logos representative.

So then, Logos ("they themselves") are suggesting how to purchase a library without "actually" subscribing ?  Now, pray tell, what kind of a game on their part would that be?

Probably the idea is that most people just subscribe and then look for the libraries. Also, those who decide to go for a free trial or a one-month subscription may find the new features compelling enough to continue the subscription afterwards.

Why not simply offering libraries (a collection of books) to those customers who otherwise qualify to use the suggested acceptable method/route of free trial,etc?

No idea as to the why/why not. It has been like that for many years and may serve as an incentive to sell fetures/subscriptions to people who are more interested in the libraries.

No idea as to the why/why not.

My 2¢

I assume that the software development, which is what keeps the company in business, comes from the features. 

Ronald, you can use the free trial or just subscribe for a month...

John, you keep saying this, but it would be blatantly gaming the system. Sure, it would be something that folks like me who don't want an ongoing subscription could do to get around the rules, but is it really what you want to advocate?

It is not my suggestion, but Mark Barnes. He has stated it several time in several posts. I am just relaying the suggestion he made to those that are asking. If it is "gaming the system" or somehow unethical then why would he even suggest it?

Just clarifying... this is not my suggestion, I am passing on a suggestion from a Logos representative.

Thanks for clarifying that. I don't know why Mark would suggest it. Perhaps they're assuming that once someone signs up for a subscription, most won't unsubscribe. Or maybe they've heard the feedback in the forums and are looking for a simple way to walk it back without losing face.

At any rate, I'm of an age where it reminds me of those old record club ads that you used to see in the back of magazines. It doesn't strike me as a good look.

I understand your questioning the reasoning, however, I just want to help fellow users find their way through the maze.

EastTN,

Here is Adam Palmer's comment confirming my statements:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/226152.aspx

EastTN,

Here is Adam Palmer's comment confirming my statements:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/226152.aspx

They do seem to be opening the door for it. Perhaps they've realized that not everyone is going to subscribe. I'll have to decide whether I'm personally comfortable with it, and whether I trust that it will be reasonably easy to unsubscribe.

I unsubscribed from a trial as a test.  It worked, simple and easy--and actually ended. I called CS to be sure I was running no risks doing so.  Use a second account if you want to be sure. 

whether I trust that it will be reasonably easy to unsubscribe.

I believe that it will... plus, the FTC's "click to cancel" laws will be going into effect soon:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ftc-click-to-cancel-subscription-new-rule/ 

Perhaps they feel that customers should try it for a month and see if they like it and find the new features and the books provided useful. 

If you are interested in purchasing a library today, you won't be excluded from receiving a denominational discount when those libraries launch in Q1.

What if you are primarily interested in Verbum libraries. If you buy a standard package today, will you be able to get 30% on a Verbum package in November?

Just not sure if Verbum falls under the banner of denominational because of the release date difference—Verbum in Nov, denominational in Q1 '25.

EastTN,

Here is Adam Palmer's comment confirming my statements:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/226152.aspx

They do seem to be opening the door for it. Perhaps they've realized that not everyone is going to subscribe. I'll have to decide whether I'm personally comfortable with it, and whether I trust that it will be reasonably easy to unsubscribe.

EastTN, here's a screenshot from my subscription page after I clicked on "Manage Billing" under my Pro subscription. It gave me these options:

So, cancelation does appear to be quite easy.

Hi Mattillo, 

We are still offering this courses deal with your first 2025 Silver (or higher) library purchase. 

Good Evening Taylor

I purchased my sets and got the code for the one free course. I didn't see a get additional 2 courses for $99... Will that not come back for this year's sales?

It has "always" been the case (at least since Logos 5) that you needed to have the current feature set to buy the current library, so Logos hasn't changed that and is not forcing people into subscriptions. They are still nudging people into buying the latest features instead of only using the free software or keeping with their initial package purchase.

I understand your point and you're correct.  I guess the difference for me is that I was actually purchasing the features, but now I'm just renting them.  However, they did make it easy to purchase the libraries by signing up for the free trial.     

If you are interested in purchasing a library today, you won't be excluded from receiving a denominational discount when those libraries launch in Q1.

What if you are primarily interested in Verbum libraries. If you buy a standard package today, will you be able to get 30% on a Verbum package in November?

Just not sure if Verbum falls under the banner of denominational because of the release date difference—Verbum in Nov, denominational in Q1 '25.

Verbum will not be released in Q1, they'll be out much sooner!  Stay tuned in the coming weeks!

So how do we view the packages to decide if we want to subscribe or not to be able to buy them?  Right now I'm getting an error message saying only subscribers can see base packages, which I'm sure can't be correct?  I thought they had previously said you had to be a subscriber to purchase them, but now you have to be a subscriber to even SEE them and what they contain?

My thoughts exactly. A company that wants to force me to subscribe or be a second class customer is a company that doesn’t want my money anymore. And apparently the pro subscription is only $5/month more for a brand new customer. That’s not much of a loyalty discount.

As it turns out, it really doesn’t matter whether I wanted to see the new packages, As their website crashes every time I try to load it anyway. Probably because I’m not a subscriber.

I purchased on the German website a 2025 Library and now see only a 15% discount on the US website. Is this correct? If I want to purchase a Library from the US website as well, do I need to wait for Q1 2025 to get the 30%?

Thank you all who have confirmed that unsubscribing is easy and reliable - that's good to know. I still feel a bit ethically uncomfortable with "subscribing" just to access another deal, then immediately cancelling once I've taken advantage of it. But that may just be me.