FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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A quick note on the missing L4 copy option:
- Within Logos (e.g. Notes) both formats (URL and L4) work in exactly the same way.
- In other apps, he advantage of the L4 option (compared to Copy as URL) is that you can click on the link and Logos opens straightaway without first opening a browser.
- The disadvantage is that most apps don’t recognise it as a link, and even if you tell the other app that it is a valid link, some apps block clicking on it because they think it’s a security risk. This is especially a problem on Mac.
The solution to this is to register the bit.ly domain with Windows and MacOS, so that the URL link will function in exactly the same way as the L4 link – that is, it will open Logos without first having to open a browser. We’re hoping to do this work relatively soon, which should mean that the inconvenience of opening the web browser when you click on a link doesn’t last for too long.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
The disadvantage is that most apps don’t recognise it as a link, and even if you tell the other app that it is a valid link, some apps block clicking on it because they think it’s a security risk. This is especially a problem on Mac.
Mark, I use a whack of apps this way... and I am using a Mac.
This list has a bunch of them...
https://hookproductivity.com/what-mac-apps-are-compatible-with-hook-app
Regardless, if you force me to use a browser, then I have to be an on active internet connection. Currently none of my other apps work this way and this would limit me when I travel and do research.
I guess my point is, we have had the L4 linking for many years, can we work together to find solutions? My feedback is that this is way too short of notice.
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Ali Pope said:Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
As others have commented this is not ideal for those who much prefer to do as much searching as possible within the actual text itself.
I admit it is not something I tend to do but I have seen, particularly over the last few weeks, in a range of forum discussions that a number of people really value this capability.
One thing I would use Search Fields for was to filter the text to show where particular words appear in different highlights. With Search Field support this was fairly easy - without it I need to know to use syntax such as searchterm IN highlight:"Highlighter Pens/Green Highlighter"
This is, in my view, taking away useful functionality.
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I was experimenting with using morph searches in the new inline search and noted that the picker doesn't update the search string as you choose morph options
It does update the search string, and run the search correctly, when the Search button is clicked - but it should update the string as options are selected.
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Graham Criddle said:
As others have commented this is not ideal for those who much prefer to do as much searching as possible within the actual text itself.
And some of those users are Accordance users, who value working in the text as much as possible. (and I would argue to a degree BibleWorks) If we remove this, it makes the transition to Logos that much more foreign to them.
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Ali Pope said:Graham Criddle said:
2) I'm not getting any Visual Filters shown for the ESV - and I do have some Visual Filters that apply to this translation (is it possible that some background information is being built and this will appear in time?)
I'm unable to reproduce this. The VF documents are showing up as expected for me. I'll have our QA team take a look.
Thanks Ali
It is quite strange.
I can't reproduce it on my MacBook Pro but I do see it - but not consistently - on my Windows 11 system.
When I am seeing the problem on Windows 11, after I have turned the visual filters on they are activated (in that the results of them show in the text) but in the dropdown I am still told that I don't have any VFs defined for the book I am in. And then, after toggling them off / on a few times it all starts working properly.
One detail - when I am experiencing this problem on Windows, the Previous / Next buttons do not show on the toolbar. When everything is working properly, they do appear
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Apologies! I misspoke in my previous reply. The HTML, WIKI and RL were removed from the toolbar because of the low amount of usage. L4 was removed because of other plans we tentatively have for future development. Even though they are removed, any existing L4 links will still continue to work. That being said, we hear you all on the L4 links and are having discussions around this.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
The solution to this is to register the bit.ly domain with Windows and MacOS, so that the URL link will function in exactly the same way as the L4 link – that is, it will open Logos without first having to open a browser. We’re hoping to do this work relatively soon, which should mean that the inconvenience of opening the web browser when you click on a link doesn’t last for too long.
What Mark didn't mention is that this work is already done and shipped on macOS. If I turn off my internet connection, and paste a ref.ly link to say, Books search in the Search panel into the macOS Notes app, I can click on that link and it will open Logos at the correct location without opening a browser or requiring an internet connection.
Making this work on Windows requires a more sophisticated solution that we haven't implemented yet, but we are eager to complete.
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Ali Pope said:
That being said, we hear you all on the L4 links and are having discussions around this.
Just wanted to say that it's refreshing to hear developers asking for feedback and taking it into account. Thank you.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
Are you guys able to tell remotely how much I use L4 linking?
If you mean "clicking on a logos4:XYZ URL in some other app", then no; that all happens offline on your computer.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
I am using a Mac. ... if you force me to use a browser, then I have to be an on active internet connection
Based on what Nick wrote, you won't need to use a browser or be online:
Nick Mueller said:What Mark didn't mention is that this work is already done and shipped on macOS. If I turn off my internet connection, and paste a ref.ly link to say, Books search in the Search panel into the macOS Notes app, I can click on that link and it will open Logos at the correct location without opening a browser or requiring an internet connection.
Can you confirm that that works for you?
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Was equivalent resources simply removed or where the defined relationships folded into parallel resources?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ali Pope said:Frank Sauer said:
I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings
We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.
Hopefully that changes - a question in relation to this answer arises... If I don't subscribe, will I be able to keep the traditional toolbar or is this change going to be forced on all users?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Dave Hooton said:
Seeing that functionality was not removed, I think this should be restored
In fact, if one is doing an object-oriented design, it should be easier to leave it in than to remove it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Donovan R. Palmer said:Ali Pope said:
We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
Are you guys able to tell remotely how much I use L4 linking?
I used L4 today as well as earlier this week. I am a bit shocked at this news. I use it in the program, not the desktop app. I surely hope you have NO plans to remove it from the program.
When I create a sermon or Bible study notes using personal book building, I use L4 to link to resources I have in logos for refererence if I need the reference in the future. I don't use L4 often. But I use it and it would be a HUGE step backwards if you got rid of this option.
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Mark said:
I don't use L4 often. But I use it and it would be a HUGE step backwards if you got rid of this option.
Especially when the replacement functionality is not ready.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark said:
When I create a sermon or Bible study notes using personal book building, I use L4 to link to resources I have in logos for refererence if I need the reference in the future. I don't use L4 often. But I use it and it would be a HUGE step backwards if you got rid of this option.
Use the "Copy link" button on the Share toolbar to copy a link that can be used in personal book building or other applications. It will link to exactly the same place as a L4 link.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Use the "Copy link" button on the Share toolbar to copy a link that can be used in personal book building or other applications. It will link to exactly the same place as a L4 link.
It is helpful to see that there will be some linking facility going forward and it will work offline.
However, at least from a MacOS worldview, the questions I am raising is in regard to parity with standard MacOS deep linking functionality. My hope was to see the capability of L4 links developed and enhanced, and I am not sure that Ref.ly is really that. (though I am grateful for any kind of retention of linking)
In order to not repeat a post, here's a link to the post that I just made some of these points: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224536/1309975.aspx#1309975
Look, I am not an expert in this area. I only stepped up my input because this is a golden opportunity for Logos to review it's position on this. Thank you in advance for listening and for considering our points of view on this feature.
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So great! I love having it all on the bar. I was comfortable with it on the three dots at the end, but this is a great enhancement of something I did not know would help. Way to go!
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Jonathan Huber said:
Just wanted to say that it's refreshing to hear developers asking for feedback and taking it into account. Thank you.
Good on ya for asking; please act on what you hear.
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Please add shortcuts. As a non-English speaking user, the translation panel is my daily (!) companion and it would be nice to be able to open and close it as quickly as possible.
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Frank Sauer said:
If I don't subscribe, will I be able to keep the traditional toolbar or is this change going to be forced on all users?
Yes, the traditional toolbar will be available for non-subscribers on the desktop app.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Use the "Copy link" button on the Share toolbar to copy a link that can be used in personal book building or other applications. It will link to exactly the same place as a L4 link.
I just opened a book on the web app. Under Share, there are only two options (copy and create slides). The copy link shows for Bibles, but not for resources. Are you going to make this available for resources as well?
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MJ. Smith said:
Was equivalent resources simply removed or where the defined relationships folded into parallel resources?
Yes, we've removed equivalent resources as Mark alluded to in an older forum post.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Favorites added on Mobile aren't showing up on Desktop beta (mac version). Is that expected or a bug? Mobile favorites set on one mobile device (iPhone) are showing on another mobile device (iPad).
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Mobile usually gets updated after the Beta is over and a stable version is released, so I would expect to see mobile to lag behind a little bit.
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