FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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Nick Mueller said:
As Eli alluded to, we have some work to do internally to improve our ability to add and reliably keep track of keyboard shortcuts. But we hear you and understand that keyboard shortcuts are even more valuable now for power users with the dynamic toolbar in place.
Thanks Nick. I was just about to post a rant thread that for the first time in 9 years as a user I now have to memorize short-cut keys in my middle age. But I will refrain. Visible tool-tips will be very helpful. Are the interlinear functions the only ones getting tool-tips or are you putting them everywhere that they are relevant?
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Nick Mueller said:
we hear you and understand that keyboard shortcuts are even more valuable now for power users with the dynamic toolbar in place
Thanks, but I hope brainstorming is continuing for another solution as well. Moving the mouse to that tiny oval after clicking a button to turn it on is not only inefficient for power users. It's inefficient for every user.
Please understand that I appreciate the team's work on this toolbar. I'm one who (almost) loves it. But this is a sore spot that I really hope gets fixed. Yes, it's most apparent with the interlinear. But I dislike the cumbersome on/off on all of the buttons to which it applies.
At the very least, if no other solution can be found, please at least extend the on/off clickable zone to encompass the entire top part of the drop-down menu (e.g. where "interlinear options" is written) so that making that extra click doesn't take so long.
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I am reading in the Expositor's Greek Testament, and the author cites a passage from Eusebius in Greek. Yes, I have Eusebius in English, but Logos is supposed to be for scholars. Not all scholars are fluent in Greek outside the Koine. But Logos can't translate it. But it could have been classical Greek. i have a book somewhere on Logos that refers to modern Greek to help understand a word in the Bible.
I think Logos should translate Greek too. Hey, translating was your idea.
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Where do I go for the Greek Interlinear view I had available in Logos 10?
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James Tanner said:
Where do I go for the Greek Interlinear view I had available in Logos 10?
Click View and then click "interlinear." or press ctrl+shift+r (r for reverse interlinear) on Windows or cmd+shift+r on Mac.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Larry Craig said:
I think Logos should translate Greek too.
If you can provide them with a link to a site that translates classical and koine Greek, I'm sure they would look into adding it. The engines they currently use translate only modern Greek.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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- Please save the state of the toolbar for each opened resource when saving a layout.
- Or alternatively save the state of the toolbar within the resource itself.
- Or provide a program setting to have it collapsed by default.
As mentioned by others, the new toolbar is more clear but quite cluttered, using a lot of real estate. I like it, but would like to keep it collapsed by default so I can focus on my resources, with less visual clutter.
Many thanks !!
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Famille Thevoz said:
- Please save the state of the toolbar for each opened resource when saving a layout.
- Or alternatively save the state of the toolbar within the resource itself.
- Or provide a program setting to have it collapsed by default.
As mentioned by others, the new toolbar is more clear but quite cluttered, using a lot of real estate. I like it, but would like to keep it collapsed by default so I can focus on my resources, with less visual clutter.
Many thanks !!
[Y]
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I like the options that are available, but honestly i like the layout that was there before. It took me a while to find the options that I used to know right where they were, and searching through the different tabs. I used to be able with one click to turn on interlinear, other resources, factbooks, etc. Now it takes going through the different tabs, a click on the option and then turn on/off the feature. This feels a little more clunky and not as fast. I would prefer being able to just click the on the feature to turn it on/off and the dropdown arrow next to it if i need to change some options.
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Larry Craig said:
I am reading in the Expositor's Greek Testament, and the author cites a passage from Eusebius in Greek. Yes, I have Eusebius in English, but Logos is supposed to be for scholars. Not all scholars are fluent in Greek outside the Koine. But Logos can't translate it. But it could have been classical Greek. i have a book somewhere on Logos that refers to modern Greek to help understand a word in the Bible. I think Logos should translate Greek too. Hey, translating was your idea.
ChatGPT is able to do this very efficiently. Specify to it that it is classical Greek or Koine and it will translate very efficiently. I've encountered translation errors on DeepL, but never on ChatGPT. When I think the GPT has translated too freely, I specify that I want a more exact or literal translation.
A suggestion for Faithlife would be to leave DeepL for those who have bought Logos 10 and are not subscribers, and provide a more intelligent and customizable translator for those who are subscribers (as I said, GPT does this very well). This would be another improvement offered in the subscription.____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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BibleWorks had a fully customizable tool ribbon, using icons, at the top of its screen which allowed the user to prioritize any of the program's functions while leaving unused functions invisible (though they were still accessible through drop-down menus).
Such "ribbon" functionality would be a far better option than the Dynamic Toolbar, particularly if:
*All Logos functions/utilities were assigned unique icons
*The ribbon could be customized for each screen layout.
Looking forward to any toolbar efficiency improvement ASAP.
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Where is the parallel resource button?
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To display the Interlinear view now requires two mouse clicks: one on the Interlinear button on the tool, and then another in the popup window to move the Interlinear Options slider to the right. Similarly to turn off the interlinear view and return to a non-interlinear view requires two more mouse clicks: on the Interlinear button to expose the popup window and another on the Interlinear Options slider to move it to the left. Recommend this feature be somehow modified to enable the interlinear view to be activated/deactivated with just one mouse click. Thanks.
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Nick Mueller said:
This will function alongside the existing shortcut Ctrl+Shift+R / Cmd+Shift+R to toggle the Reverse Interlinear Pane and will likely land in version 38.
Thanks for sharing. Shortcuts can certainly reduce difficulties and resistance to the new Toolbar.
Now this shortcut option raises another question for me. Why a more complex shortcut with three keys for commonly used functions and simpler shortcuts with two keys for less commonly used functions? For example:
- Currently CTRL+R (two keys) activates Reading.
- And CTRL+Shift+R (three keys) activates the Reverse Interlinear Panel.
I would prefer two-key shortcuts to be assigned to more frequently used tools and three-key shortcuts to less frequently used tools.
I suppose telemetry should indicate which tool is used most and this should be taken into account when deciding whether to assign 2- or 3-key shortcuts. Probably 1-key shortcuts (F1, F2 etc).
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Kiyah said:Famille Thevoz said:
- Please save the state of the toolbar for each opened resource when saving a layout.
- Or alternatively save the state of the toolbar within the resource itself.
- Or provide a program setting to have it collapsed by default.
As mentioned by others, the new toolbar is more clear but quite cluttered, using a lot of real estate. I like it, but would like to keep it collapsed by default so I can focus on my resources, with less visual clutter.
Many thanks !!
The user experience concerning secondary toolbar(s) in resource windows begins with your screen size. If I'm using Logos on my 27" monitor the re-appearing secondary toolbars are still annoying but not nearly as much as when I'm mobile and working from my 14" laptop screen. Then those secondary toolbars really get in the way. And re-hiding them every time that I fire up Logos on my laptop is frustrating.
Can you give the user the same kind of option that exists in MS Word? In the Show Ribbon (aka secondary toolbar in Logos) Menu, the user can pick "Show Tabs Only" or "Always Show Ribbon." For my purposes and layouts, and especially on my laptop, the equivalent of "Show Tabs Only" would be perfect. I regain significant screen space, and if I need a certain option or tool, I can click on the appropriate menu (Home, Search, Notes, etc) and quickly find what I need. After that the secondary toolbar disappears again, and I'm back to work.
But another user may prefer the "Always Show Ribbon (secondary toolbar)" option. Choice is best.
Please consider adding this option. Thanks!
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Where is the parallel resources button in L2025? I used it often to quickly access a parallel resource, such as another Bible version or commentary. I hope this button will return soon. Thanks.
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I typed the query "What can you tell me about the origin of the Nicene Creed?" from the search button on the new toolbar and got a return (AI-generated? I'm not sure.) referencing Institutes of the Christian Religion but not the book Ecumenical Councils which details the council where that creed was written. Perhaps I did something wrong to not activate the AI LLM function which, I would expect, would have found and returned the info from the Ecumenical Councils book. If I failed to access the AI function in my query, then I guess my feedback is how to do that isn't intuitively obvious from the user interface. Thanks.
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C.J. (Johan) Barth said:
Where is the parallel resources button in L2025? I used it often to quickly access a parallel resource, such as another Bible version or commentary. I hope this button will return soon. Thanks.
It's now done via the Bible cover image:
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Don Stuart said:
I typed the query "What can you tell me about the origin of the Nicene Creed?" from the search button on the new toolbar and got a return (AI-generated? I'm not sure.) referencing Institutes of the Christian Religion but not the book Ecumenical Councils which details the council where that creed was written.
Hi Don
What kind of search did you run? What it an "All" search or a "Books" search?
In any case, when I ran that query I got this in the first sentence of the response (Synopsis):
"The Nicene Creed originated at the first Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D., convened by Emperor Constantine to address church divisions related to the Arian controversy"
Don Stuart said:Perhaps I did something wrong to not activate the AI LLM function which, I would expect, would have found and returned the info from the Ecumenical Councils book. If I failed to access the AI function in my query, then I guess my feedback is how to do that isn't intuitively obvious from the user interface. Thanks.
If you have subscribed to Logos Premium/Pro/Max you do not need to activate any AI function. It will already be active once your software has updated.
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Thank you very much!
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I'd like to leave you with some new suggestions for REFINING the Dynamic Toolbar:
1) Add icons to the main menus (Home, Search etc).
2) When the open tab is narrow, hide all the titles and leave only the icons visible.
3) Center the tools in the secondary bar with the title of the primary menu instead of aligning them to the left.I'll explain the suggestions now with screenshots.
1) ICONS IN THE MAIN MENUS
The secondary toolbar has icons, they could be added to the main one to maintain consistency. But this would be even more useful in the following suggestion.
2) HIDE ALL TITLES
When the width of a tab is narrowed, the menus to the right of the dynamic Toolbar are hidden and nested in the “More” menu. I have an ultrawide monitor, and it often doesn't bother me. But most users don't have one, and I myself often have to use only my 15-inch laptop. And even with 15 inches, when I use three parallel tabs, the behavior of the menus and tools is not efficient. See (15” notebook):
This would be unnecessary or reduced if, instead of nesting the main menus inside “More”, the titles were hidden and only the icons remained. Interestingly, this already happens with the secondary Toolbar, which shows that this is already partially configured in the software, see:
Hiding titles from the main Toolbar (top or left) has been present since Logos 10, so it's not against Logos' “policy” to optionally hide titles and it doesn't hinder new users.
3) CENTRALIZE THE TOOLS IN THE SECONDARY TOOLBAR
As many people have already pointed out, while the dynamic toolbar has increased the number of clicks, it has also reduced the number of clicks to a smaller scroll area. This could be improved if the titles of the tools in the secondary toolbar were centralized with the title of the primary toolbar menu.In the case of the Home, Search, Note and Formatting menus, this is irrelevant, because even when aligned to the left, the tools in the secondary bar are already naturally “almost” centered with the menu. Even so, it is still possible to align them more towards the center of the main menu.
But in the case of the View, Tools and Share menus, the mouse movement is greater...
... and if they were centered, the mouse movement would be more efficient.
These would be very welcome and useful refinements, I think.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Aaron Hamilton said:
At the very least, if no other solution can be found, please at least extend the on/off clickable zone to encompass the entire top part of the drop-down menu (e.g. where "interlinear options" is written) so that making that extra click doesn't take so long.
Another possibility would be to leave the enable/disable button out next to the title.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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I love that there are so many good ideas on this thread. This one ranks up there. Well done!Anderson Abreu said:Another possibility would be to leave the enable/disable button out next to the title.
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The Interlinear is a big deal. At least fix that one. The ideas above are good.
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GaoLu said:
The Interlinear is a big deal. At least fix that one. The ideas above are good.
I think the majority of complaints could be fixed with this and the Parallel Resource tab. Those are the two I click on and off as I study.
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I'll 2nd the idea to utilize Mac's menu bar for some of this. I think it would be great for Logos to utilize the menu bar a lot more.
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I agree with cutting down the number of steps. Logos 10 was 1 click to toggle Interlinear on/off. Now it is 3. Can a hotkey be added to go back to an on/off toggle for Interlinear? I am not much of a mouseketeer.
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I prefer not to use the Mac menu bar because the toolbar is connected to a panel. Moving it to the menu bar would make it confusing as to what panel one was modifying and also requires the user to move to the top of the screen whenever the user wants to make a change. That seems tedious to me.
i'm not sure if this suggestion has been made, but i'd appreciate a single, easily, and quickly accessible button or keyboard shortcut that would disable all visual filters. My idea is that it would work as a toggle that would turn back on the exact visual filters I originally had active. ... If this already exists, let me know.
Mobile (at leas ont iPad and iPhone) has essentially this feature, and it's quite useful.0 -
The Insights Tool will not fill out. It shows, but I get no information in the insights. I did previously, but it is not working today. Any ideas?
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In Insights I got a "something went wrong. Try again." I tried again. Now I have related passages and cross-references, but it isn't resources commentaries and encyclopedias. Any ideas?
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That's a valid point. As I have been interacting with the toolbar some more, I can see how that would be a hangup if it's interacted with via the Mac menu bar. I'm curious if some other simplifying feature could be implemented. Things are getting crowded.
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At first this change brought some panic. But I am starting to see the value in it and really like the text description of the menu headings, though maybe an option for symbols being a preference would be worth considering.
The function I had the most difficulty finding was the parallel resource. It was very obvious, but I'm used to using the // symbol on the resource tool bar. I went digging in the "add parallel text" menu and couldn't figure it out. Maybe in that menu you could add a "show parallel resources" button that opens/highlights where this functionality is.
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It's a little off putting not to have some indicator that the selected tab is the one chosen to have hyperlinks sent to, other than a check mark on the panel menu.
Perhaps a red circle around the "x" used to close the tab?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
It's a little off putting not to have some indicator that the selected panel is the one chosen to have hyperlinks sent to, other than a check mark on the panel menu.
Perhaps a red circle around the "x" used to close the tab?
When I select send hyperlinks here I get a little target on the Tab of the Bible to indicate the panel that links will to open in
👁️ 👁️
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I could not see the icon with the Bible pane being one of several panes. But it was visible when I pressed F11 to put the Bible pane in full screen.
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Oh, thanks. That's where that target went to. So, my objection has a finer point. When one has several tabs open the target isn't viewable. Please address this issue.Antony Brennan said:Beloved Amodeo said:It's a little off putting not to have some indicator that the selected panel is the one chosen to have hyperlinks sent to, other than a check mark on the panel menu.
Perhaps a red circle around the "x" used to close the tab?
When I select send hyperlinks here I get a little target on the Tab of the Bible to indicate the panel that links will to open in
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3 1TB SSD
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Rick G. said:
but I'm used to using the // symbol on the resource tool bar
The funny thing about that is I'm the guy who originally suggested the // icon (because it's the geometry symbol for parallel lines, of course!) and it's been one of the icons that has be reported time and time again as being mysterious and counterintuitive to new folks. (Along with the "three circles stacked like cannon balls" for visual filters.) Once you learn it, it becomes one more hieroglyph that's stuck in your brain, but until then it's a total mystery.
Anyway, we're definitely seeing a pattern with people not discovering the book cover or not associating it with switching out the resource. That, and the number of clicks to toggle interlinear. Other interesting feedback on this thread to be sure, but those seem like the top two pain points so far.
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Tom Vidal said:
i'd appreciate a single, easily, and quickly accessible button or keyboard shortcut that would disable all visual filters
I've wanted this myself more than a few times.
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Eli Evans (Logos) said:Rick G. said:
but I'm used to using the // symbol on the resource tool bar
The funny thing about that is I'm the guy who originally suggested the // icon (because it's the geometry symbol for parallel lines, of course!) and it's been one of the icons that has be reported time and time again as being mysterious and counterintuitive to new folks. (Along with the "three circles stacked like cannon balls" for visual filters.) Once you learn it, it becomes one more hieroglyph that's stuck in your brain, but until then it's a total mystery.
Anyway, we're definitely seeing a pattern with people not discovering the book cover or not associating it with switching out the resource.
Probably should have provided this feedback earlier, but I felt like there was a missed opportunity with the blue New button and the toolbar. Before pressing it, I thought the button was going to provide a quick 4 to 6 step highlighted tour of the new toolbar. This tutorial should start with a big arrow pointing to the book cover and down arrow especially since it has generated the most questions in the forums since the beta launch.
Windows 11 & macOS 15 (Logos Pro) | iOS 18 (Logos Mobile Beta)
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So appreciate your heart Eli. Amazing! The new Dynamic Toolbar is a major set back to me. Multiple clicks are now required to do things that were previously done in one click. If there is anyway I can revert to the previous toolbar please let me know. I would gladly pay to get rid of the Dynamic Toolbar. Thank you.0
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Utilizing the Mac's menu bar is the right answer for sure! I too vote for this. This would also allow Mac users to create their own custom keyboard shortcuts in the Mac OS.
I strongly dislike the Dynamic Toolbar - it's a mess. What used to be done in one click now takes several clicks. I never write on forums - but this Dynamic Toolbar is so bad that it has driven me to beg Logos to fix.
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Now on my dashboard I have to constantly erase help tiles and selected bible tiles, there should be a way of hiding these.
My once tidy dashboard with just my reading plans and custom layouts is now tainted with junk....
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Please bring back a way to toggle on and off the parallel text. I use this constantly to open Hebrew/Greek text parallel to the passage I'm studying. In the prior version, the parallel text button was always visible and could be clicked on and off in one step. Now it takes 4 steps: go to the view tab, click on add parallel text, toggle on/off parallel text, and click out of dropdown to close the dropdown.
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mark preston said:
Now on my dashboard I have to constantly erase help tiles and selected bible tiles, there should be a way of hiding these.
My once tidy dashboard with just my reading plans and custom layouts is now tainted with junk....
I'm also not happy with this (as I mention here) and I hope Logos deals swiftly with this intrusion.
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As I keep reading the posts in relation to the frustration for many users with this new "Dynamic" Toolbar - I continue to wonder why Logos is so resistant to just providing it as an option....
At a minimum provide it as an option until all the issues and inefficiencies are dealt with to a point that users see it as a plus.
It is obviously possible, as Mark posted video proof that a choice of toolbars is possible - why ignore the customer or make the use of Logos so frustrating for those who want to support the company and subscribe... (Not to mention the loss of some customers that have no desire to make their use of Logos less efficient for the sake of improved look)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Everyone gets to be a beta tester this way!
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GaoLu said:
Everyone gets to be a beta tester this way!
That's true in some ways.... Also get to pay a subscription fee for it [:P]
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I am surprised at the dislike of the new toolbar. Not taking away from those who don't like it, but I think it's a huge step forward. I've been using in beta for many weeks and once I got past my old muscle memory, I loved it.
Love it.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
I am surprised at the dislike of the new toolbar. Not taking away from those who don't like it, but I think it's a huge step forward. I've been using in beta for many weeks and once I got past my old muscle memory, I loved it.
Love it.
And this is not surprising - I'm sure many will love it - just as many will not....
That is the main reason other companies keep a "Classic" option when making such changes to UI toolbars....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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