Logos Upgrade - No Subscription or online
Hi Everyone (Including Logos),
My logos 9 is misbehaving, so I decided to come here and upgrade. I do not want a subscription and I normally live in a place with bad to no internet.
What are my options? I feel like Logos has always made this as confusing as possible.
If there are no options. I just want to blast Logos for being anti-consumer. The subscription motivation for most things is based on a repeatable money source, not serving the customer. Sure there are a couple of features that need constant refreshing so a server can be involved or are too big to exist on a computers, but you could easily separate those out to a premium subscription package... which is what I thought Logos Now was... of course the rules change and marketing is unclear, so what do I know.
Logos! Don't be anti-consumer, don't forget who you serve. Don't be like other companies who get too big for the people they serve.
Wayne
Comments
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Ice Deep said:
Hi Everyone (Including Logos),
My logos 9 is misbehaving, so I decided to come here and upgrade. I do not want a subscription and I normally live in a place with bad to no internet.
What are my options?
simply update to the latest version (Logos 37.1) - it's free! - and look whether this fixes your issues. If you want to buy and own some of the Logos 10 features, there's less than a week time to get those (search for Verbum 10 in the store), but that's fully optional.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Ice Deep said:
The subscription motivation for most things is based on a repeatable money source, not serving the customer.
Staying in business is the best way to "serve the customer."
Ice Deep said:I feel like Logos has always made this as confusing as possible.
It has been confusing, but thankfully they have made it less so. You are using "Logos 9," but the software has always been free (and still is). In the past, you would purchase features. Now, you subscribe. The features you have already purchased, however, are still free to use.
As Mick mentioned, you should download the newest version of the engine.
If you have any troubles with that, please let us know!
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Update to the latest and greatest free Logos software. Upgrade per Mick if you want (I advise you to). Start a free trial subscription to see if you can live with or without it. Breathe easy. Wait a year, and the whole thing won't seem complicated at all. Hopefully.
I was an adamant anti-subscriber. Still am. Almost rabid. I made my case, stood my ground, defended my cause, and lost. Well, maybe not lost. I went ahead and subscribed for two long, full years. Apologies to my current dear anti-subscriber friends. I was one of you and still am, but alas, I subscribed! The roof didn't cave in, though I heard great cracking noises. The bank account is still intact. And you know what? I am glad I subscribed. I like it.0 -
I'll say it again: the 5% off total cost of products is amazing! I was able to purchase a course for 97% off! Because the course was roughly $200 (very rough estimate, as I'm not taking the time to check), the added 5% off would have slashed about $10 off the price. That alone pays for the pro membership for that month. There is a misconception that only big spenders can have their subscription pay for itself. That's simply not true. The subscription savings are the real deal.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
There is a misconception that only big spenders can have their subscription pay for itself. That's simply not true. The subscription savings are the real deal.
Sure, it all depends. Back when I was building my library, concentrating on discounts was the key. And it paid off, grandly.
But after 'thinking' about the whole thing, I agree with 1CO (our resident Logosian financial economist) ... the piper has to be paid, at some point. Bob seemed to do a lot of re-investing (arguing the profits were just barely). But the PE's will get their due. Just a matter of 'who' pays.
Yesterday, I sidled up to Amazon, saving wildly over Logos. I was 'honestly' surprised. Why was the Logos price so far out of line? So I started looking at 'nearby' Logos books as well (not to mention the Logos.com engine that just can't).
Seems to me, the stable has to be re-valued at some point. Offering a series of discounts to some subscribers has to be made up somewhere. I doubt the subscriber marginal increase is that significant.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Yesterday, I sidled up to Amazon, saving wildly over Logos.
The struggle is real. Sales are key.
DMB said:I doubt the subscriber marginal increase is that significant
Another possibility is that subscriber discounts lead to increased sales. After all, the more you spend, the more you save! (At least until the wallet is empty. Then one wonders where all the savings ran off to.)
I always appreciate your thoughts [:)]
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DMB said:
I agree with 1CO (our resident Logosian financial economist)
... the piper has to be paid, at some point. Bob seemed to do a lot of re-investing (arguing the profits were just barely). But the PE's will get their due. Just a matter of 'who' pays.....Offering a series of discounts to some subscribers has to be made up somewhere. I doubt the subscriber marginal increase is that significant.
How can I disagree with DMB who agrees with me! People have immense respect for Bob, the founder of Logos. If there was a win-win system, don't we think that he would have implemented it? If we are not in a win-win world, then Private Equity owners are not interested in lining your pockets at their expense.
In another post, I mentioned that the 2025 Libraries have so much bloat than prior libraries that we are effectively paying more for the resources we are interested within those libraries. In this one, I will show that this 5% additional saving is also a myth using one category of an example: I will show that Logos has increased the prices of the Legacy libraries.
I got the screenshots of my price for certain legacy libraries I was interested in before subscription (sometime in the week before subscription started). 'Cos I know the playbook of Private Equity based on the research that has been done on private equity, my friends. I know they are going to increase the price. So I also got screenshots of the same library after subscription (sometimes in the first 7 days).
Look for 2 things in the screenshots below: Dynamic Collection Value and Dynamic Price (price before 25% discount) so that we can first do a apples-to-apples comparison.
The Dynamic Collection Value remains the same in all cases implying the library contents has not changed and the pricing of the individual resources has not changed.
The Dynamic Price has gone up in every instance that I looked. What explains this behavior/behaviour (for our non-US friends)? Other than they have jacked up the price bcos of the 5% peace offering to woo subscribers!
In the following example, the price has gone up from $10.24 to $12.78. (The Dynamic Sale Price has also gone up even after the 5% discount from $8.19 to $9.58)
Logos 8 Lutheran Silver (before subscription)
Logos 8 Luther Silver (after subscription)
In the following example, the price has gone up from $17.39 to $21.72 (The Dynamic Sale Price has also gone up even after the 5% discount from $13.91 to $16.29)
Logos 7 Standard Silver (before subscription)
Logos 7 Standard Silver (after subscription)
Sure, there are also cases where the Dynamic Price has not increased by 5%, so the additional 5% reduces the price compared to earlier. See below an example like that.
Note the Dynamic Price has increased from $306.12 to $320.99, but the Dynamic Sale Price, which factors in the additional 5% has gone down has gone down from $244.90 to $240.74 (thus favoring customers).
Logos 8 Reformed Platinum (before subscription)
Logos 8 Reformed Platinum (after subscription)
Smart Logosians will point that we get an additional 5% cash back. Yes, in some cases, we will get resources a bit cheaper after the 5% cash back. The point I am making is that prices are going to continue to go up because Private Equity owners are looking for their return on investment. This is not Bob's world anymore. Feel free to cling on to Bob's world if it helps you sleep at night. Alternatively, we should stop being an ostrich and learn from research that people have done on Private Equity. Its your choice.
Prices are going to continue going up and the profitability knob will be turned ever so slightly continuously until they see profitability turn down because they've jacked up their prices too much. Bob's world was not about maximizing profit. Private Equity's world is the opposite.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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1Cor10 31 said:
I will show that this 5% additional saving is also a myth using one category of an example: I will show that Logos has increased the prices of the Legacy libraries.
Your post contains helpful insight that I consider to be perfectly valid. But it presents neither the only perspective nor the whole picture. The choice that Logos customers have regarding the 5% savings on resources is clear: subscribe and get it, or don't subscribe and don't get it. There's nothing theoretical about that. Either the 5% leaves your pocket or it doesn't. Sure, one could just throw up hands in frustration and find a different store to do business with. But as long as one is purchasing resources from Logos, the 5% discount is a reality that should play into any logical thinker's decision.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
But it presents neither the only perspective nor the whole picture.
Yes ... it's the old JC Penney problem. The sale price (from an increased regular price), or just the regular (lower) price.
Over the years, Logos has worked its way into a buy-on-sale (or now 5% off! if you give us more money sale) to where the regular catalog is a question mark. I hadn't seen 1CO's examples in such stark detail. If I don't subscribe I'm paying inflated prices! Maybe just not pay.
But I'd argue, the long-term damper is buy or not (period). I still think a good Logos library can be had at fairly limited investment. The logic for more-more to feed a search engine .... meh.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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