Make the ESV Reverse Interlinear available for purchase outside of the base packages
Please! Pretty Please!!!
Comments
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I vote for this, too. The most basic package that also contains these Interlinear resources has tons of stuff I already have and don't want to pay to duplicate. The next package up contains tons of stuff I will never use. The Scholar's library, which is the one closest to what I really would be willing to pay money for and also contains the interlinear resources is so very expensive that I despair of ever having enough money to purchase it.
Please make the ESV Reverse Interlinear available for purchase outside of the base packages.
Esther
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EstherJones said:
I vote for this, too. The most basic package that also contains these Interlinear resources has tons of stuff I already have and don't want to pay to duplicate. The next package up contains tons of stuff I will never use. The Scholar's library, which is the one closest to what I really would be willing to pay money for and also contains the interlinear resources is so very expensive that I despair of ever having enough money to purchase it.
Please make the ESV Reverse Interlinear available for purchase outside of the base packages.
Esther
I read your other post and don't wish to be unkind. I understand that not everyone is going to be, or even should be, a scholar of the biblical text. I do, however, have extremely strong feelings regarding such items as interlinears and Strong's numbers. If you don't know Greek or Hebrew, looking at an interlinear or at the glosses in Strong's isn't really going to improve your understanding one iota. I would recommend that you skip the interlinears and Strongs and instead opt for some good commentaries. Otherwise, all that will happen is that you will say, "Oh, that's what the word looks like that is translated . . ." What have you really gained?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I think Esther and Richard have a point of view that is valid. Although I have the Scholar's gold package and have it, a friend of mine would really benefit from having the ESV reverse interlinear and she cannot afford the expense to upgrade and would simply like to include this resource and use it as she chooses.
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JoanKorte said:
I think Esther and Richard have a point of view that is valid. Although I have the Scholar's gold package and have it, a friend of mine would really benefit from having the ESV reverse interlinear and she cannot afford the expense to upgrade and would simply like to include this resource and use it as she chooses.
Again, why? Does she know the language? If not, is she going to learn anything other than what the word LOOKS LIKE? If she wants a translation, look at a translation; look at 100 translations if that helps. But why look at the form of the letters in the original? Simply so you'll know what they look like? For a gloss? You get that in the translation. If you want to understand the original words, that takes WORK, more work than the average layman is willing to expend. Get some good commentaries. Not commentaries which all state your own understanding, but commentaries which disagree with one another. Demand of them that they support their position, but beware of "outliers" which are positions which are radically different from all others. Outliers can end up being correct, but the burden of proof lies especially heavy on them.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George, I value your scholarship tremendously and love your sense of humor, too. What I am trying to do is to find points to agree with others who post on this forum. Particularly those who seem new to me. It is my way of encouraging them. So, "Why?" (and I do not want to turn this into any type of debate, at all) their point of view is valid to me because it is their point of view. IMHO.
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I must agree with George here. An Interlinear is one of the very worst Bible study tools ever invented. It makes the student imagine that he/she can read Greek or Hebrew when in actuality all they are doing is reading the English gloss and looking at the Hebrew or Greek characters.
Jack
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JackCaviness said:
An Interlinear is one of the very worst Bible study tools ever invented. It makes the student imagine that he/she can read Greek or Hebrew when in actuality all they are doing is reading the English gloss and looking at the Hebrew or Greek characters.
A regular interlinear perhaps, but the reverse interlinear doesn't provide an English gloss, rather it's an actual translation as the primary text with the associated Greek words along side. So the point there isn't to pretend you're reading Greek (or whatever), but to provide an easy way to access original language resources from an English translation--the underlying Greek can be keylinked to BDAG or TDNT. Of course, if one thinks that original language resources shouldn't be used without formal training then one would still find the reverse interlinear invalid. But that view would also invalidate much of what Logos has to offer.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:JackCaviness said:
An Interlinear is one of the very worst Bible study tools ever invented. It makes the student imagine that he/she can read Greek or Hebrew when in actuality all they are doing is reading the English gloss and looking at the Hebrew or Greek characters.
A regular interlinear perhaps, but the reverse interlinear doesn't provide an English gloss, rather it's an actual translation as the primary text with the associated Greek words along side. So the point there isn't to pretend you're reading Greek (or whatever), but to provide an easy way to access original language resources from an English translation--the underlying Greek can be keylinked to BDAG or TDNT. Of course, if one thinks that original language resources shouldn't be used without formal training then one would still find the reverse interlinear invalid. But that view would also invalidate much of what Logos has to offer.
"Gloss" is a term used to designate whatever word is used to translate a term from another language. This is opposed to a definition which is a more extended account of its meaning. ALL translations have glosses. In fact, translations generally are a whole series of glosses.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
"Gloss" is a term used to designate whatever word is used to translate a term from another language. This is opposed to a definition which is a more extended account of its meaning. ALL translations have glosses. In fact, translations generally are a whole series of glosses.
Perhaps in a strict sense, but in the context of this discussion, the contrast is between using a real translation in the reverse interlinear and reading the wooden, non-contextual "glosses" in non-English word order found in a regular interlinear. That's was my point.
(Besides, isn't it a bit simplistic to think of translations as just a series of glosses when there isn't a 1:1 word correspondence and they are translating idioms and thoughts as well as words.)
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:
(Besides, isn't it a bit simplistic to think of translations as just a series of glosses when there isn't a 1:1 word correspondence and they are translating idioms and thoughts as well as words.)
Perhaps slightly, but only slightly. People still go on and on and on and ... about Strong's numbers when all they give you are the glosses used in the AV [AKA: KJV]. Regardless of the form it takes sg/pl, nom/obj, pres/past it's still the same word even though it gets prettied up in the translation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Get some good commentaries. Not commentaries which all state your own understanding,
Why should one defend their reason for requiring a particular purchase, or having something unbundled? Or have to spend large amounts of money because it suits someone else's method of working? A few good lexicons is far better value than expensive commentary sets. I value the NET Bible notes esp. for Hebrew and a few other translations, together with lexicons and interlinears to grasp the understanding of a particular passage. The recent NICOTine debate was interesting, and I bet I could find as much diversity or conformity in several inexpensive lexicons!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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George Somsel said:
Regardless of the form it takes sg/pl, nom/obj, pres/past it's still the same word even though it gets prettied up in the translation.
So, in your view, there's no difference between reading an actual translation and reading the "gloss" line in a standard interlinear?
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Dave Hooton said:George Somsel said:
Get some good commentaries. Not commentaries which all state your own understanding,
Why should one defend their reason for requiring a particular purchase, or having something unbundled? Or have to spend large amounts of money because it suits someone else's method of working? A few good lexicons is far better value than expensive commentary sets. I value the NET Bible notes esp. for Hebrew and a few other translations, together with lexicons and interlinears to grasp the understanding of a particular passage. The recent NICOTine debate was interesting, and I bet I could find as much diversity or conformity in several inexpensive lexicons!
Lexica are good if they deal adequately with words, and normally I might suggest them; however, it is not true that simply because a gloss appears in a lexicon that it is the proper understanding of a Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic word in the particular context in which it is found. I'm reminded of a version [Amplified?] which as a series of different words which might be used so the reader can more or less construct his own translation. This is inviting disaster. I remember a joke when I was in grad school regarding Arabic having 4 meanings for every word: Normal, opposite, sexual reference and something about a camel. This is a tad exaggerated, but every language has a number of different usages for most words. Unless you are willing to take the time to really examine the lexicon entry (or perhaps use the reference browser to see if the passage you are studying is listed in the entry and how it is classified) you're basically throwing darts at the board. This is why I suggested a commentary. If it is a decent commentary, the author has some knowledge of how the words are used.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Todd Phillips said:George Somsel said:
Regardless of the form it takes sg/pl, nom/obj, pres/past it's still the same word even though it gets prettied up in the translation.
So, in your view, there's no difference between reading an actual translation and reading the "gloss" line in a standard interlinear?
Compare for yourself
6 Jacob’s well was there; so Jesus, wearied as he was from his journey, was sitting beside the well. It was about the sixth hour.
6 • Jacob’s well was there; so Jesus, wearied as δὲ2 ‹τοῦ5 Ἰακώβ6› πηγὴ4 ἦν1 ἐκεῖ3 οὖν8 ‹ὁ7 Ἰησοῦς9› κεκοπιακὼς10 ← δέ ὁ Ἰακώβ πηγή εἰμί ἐκεῖ οὖν ὁ Ἰησοῦς κοπιάω C RGSM, NGSM NNSF VF3SIIA D C RNSM, NNSM VPNSMRA 1161 3588, 2384 4077 1510 1563 3767 3588, 2424 2872 he was from his journey, was sitting beside ← ← ἐκ11 → ‹τῆς12 ὁδοιπορίας13› → ἐκαθέζετο14 ‹οὕτως15 ἐπὶ16› ἐκ ὁ ὁδοιπορία καθέζομαι οὕτως ἐπί EG RGSF, NGSF VF3SIID D, ED 1537 3588, 3597 2516 3779, 1909 the well. It was about the sixth hour. τῇ17 πηγῇ18 → ἦν20 ὡς21 → ἕκτη22 ὥρα19 ὁ πηγή εἰμί ὡς ἕκτος ὥρα RDSF NDSF VF3SIIA T MNSF NNSF 3588 4077 1510 5613 1623 5610 Schwandt, J., & Collins, C. J. (2006; 2006). The ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament (Jn 4:6). Logos Research Systems, Inc.Do you see any difference? As the margarine ad says, "No dif-fê-rence."george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Compare for yourself
6 Jacob’s well was there; so Jesus, wearied as he was from his journey, was sitting beside the well. It was about the sixth hour.
The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Jn 4:6). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.6 • Jacob’s well was there; so Jesus, wearied as δὲ2 ‹τοῦ5 Ἰακώβ6› πηγὴ4 ἦν1 ἐκεῖ3 οὖν8 ‹ὁ7 Ἰησοῦς9› κεκοπιακὼς10 ← δέ ὁ Ἰακώβ πηγή εἰμί ἐκεῖ οὖν ὁ Ἰησοῦς κοπιάω C RGSM, NGSM NNSF VF3SIIA D C RNSM, NNSM VPNSMRA 1161 3588, 2384 4077 1510 1563 3767 3588, 2424 2872 he was from his journey, was sitting beside ← ← ἐκ11 → ‹τῆς12 ὁδοιπορίας13› → ἐκαθέζετο14 ‹οὕτως15 ἐπὶ16› ἐκ ὁ ὁδοιπορία καθέζομαι οὕτως ἐπί EG RGSF, NGSF VF3SIID D, ED 1537 3588, 3597 2516 3779, 1909 the well. It was about the sixth hour. τῇ17 πηγῇ18 → ἦν20 ὡς21 → ἕκτη22 ὥρα19 ὁ πηγή εἰμί ὡς ἕκτος ὥρα RDSF NDSF VF3SIIA T MNSF NNSF 3588 4077 1510 5613 1623 5610 Schwandt, J., & Collins, C. J. (2006; 2006). The ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament (Jn 4:6). Logos Research Systems, Inc.Do you see any difference? As the margarine ad says, "No dif-fê-rence."
<!--
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-->So that's the Greek word John used for
"sitting". Now it all makes sense...[;)]"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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George;
The reason I so wanted the reverse interlinears was due in large part to the fact that in working with the video tutorials that particular reference is used several times as an example...so in my mind it looks as if it's one of the reference resources everyone who uses Logos must use constantly. Heck, I wanna know what I'm missing!
Maybe it's really not for me, but because of it's prominence in the tutorials, I wanted the chance to get it. And here's another question: why in the world is almost every other important resource included in my program except THAT (out of the basic package)? That's actually a question that supports your argument: whoever made the list of references I bought realized a person like me wouldn't be benefited by that--but then, if that's so, why is it used to illustrate, for instance, key-linking in the video tutorials?
I appreciate and will always appreciate your (or anyone's) effort to educate me. I also appreciate those who defended my point of view: I do have a right to it, even if it is an uneducated one.
Looking at the examples here in this thread makes me wonder if indeed it is something on which I'd like to spend my money. So perhaps bundling it is wiser than I originally realized.
Still, I would like to point out that if I had had the chance to purchase those, then realized that they were of no use to me unless I studied the original languages myself, it might have spurred me on to greater efforts in that direction. And surely that's a good thing.
Esther
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George Somsel said:
Get some good commentaries. Not commentaries which all state your own understanding,
Why should one defend their reason for requiring a particular purchase, or having something unbundled? Or have to spend large amounts of money because it suits someone else's method of working? A few good lexicons is far better value than expensive commentary sets. I value the NET Bible notes esp. for Hebrew and a few other translations, together with lexicons and interlinears to grasp the understanding of a particular passage. The recent NICOTine debate was interesting, and I bet I could find as much diversity or conformity in several inexpensive lexicons!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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EstherJones said:
Still, I would like to point out that if I had had the chance to purchase those, then realized that they were of no use to me unless I studied the original languages myself, it might have spurred me on to greater efforts in that direction. And surely that's a good thing.
Esther
I would agree that having an impetus to learn the original languages is a good thing, but I should point out that it is a lengthy path which involves much work if one is to attain any proficiency. If one doesn't gain at least a certain level of proficiency then the effort may not be totally wasted, but it isn't all that productive.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or touch not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.Alexander Pope
An Essay on Criticismgeorge
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Dave Hooton said:George Somsel said:
Get some good commentaries. Not commentaries which all state your own understanding,
Why should one defend their reason for requiring a particular purchase, or having something unbundled? Or have to spend large amounts of money because it suits someone else's method of working? A few good lexicons is far better value than expensive commentary sets. I value the NET Bible notes esp. for Hebrew and a few other translations, together with lexicons and interlinears to grasp the understanding of a particular passage. The recent NICOTine debate was interesting, and I bet I could find as much diversity or conformity in several inexpensive lexicons!
In inexpensive lexica? Probably. There are a limited number of lexica which are worth having:
1. BDAG or Louw-Nida for NT (You really ought to have BDAG whether you have Louw-Nida or not)
2. HALOT or BDB for OT
3. LSJ to supplement #1
4. Targum Lexicon for peanut butter sandwiches [:D]
5. Lust for some LXX use
6. Glosses for the Qumran sectarian ManuscriptsWith anything else, you're wasting your time. [It would be nice to have Jastrow -- I have it in many PDF files]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Compare for yourself
Perhaps I wasn't clear. When I said standard interlinear I meant something like the NA27 Interlinear:
6 ἦν δὲ ἐκεῖ πηγὴ τοῦ Ἰακώβ . ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς κεκοπιακὼς ἐκ τῆς was but there spring of the Jacob The then Jesus having labored from the ὁδοιπορίας ἐκαθέζετο οὕτως ἐπὶ τῇ πηγῇ · ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη . walking travel he was sitting thusly on the spring hour was as sixth I was originally pointing out the difference between a standard interlinear(Greek as primary text) and a reverse interlinear (ESV translation as primary text).MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:George Somsel said:
Compare for yourself
Perhaps I wasn't clear. When I said standard interlinear I meant something like the NA27 Interlinear:
6 ἦν δὲ ἐκεῖ πηγὴ τοῦ Ἰακώβ . ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς κεκοπιακὼς ἐκ τῆς was but there spring of the Jacob The then Jesus having labored from the ὁδοιπορίας ἐκαθέζετο οὕτως ἐπὶ τῇ πηγῇ · ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη . walking travel he was sitting thusly on the spring hour was as sixth I was originally pointing out the difference between a standard interlinear(Greek as primary text) and a reverse interlinear (ESV translation as primary text).I don't see that that changes anything. The same words are there except they are placed in the order of the Greek words. What is the difference whether you say "To town he went" or "He went to town"? (Not intended as an actual example)
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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The Lexham Greek-English interlinear is nice. I don't have BDAG, but I have Louw-Nida, Anlex, Strongs, and another semantic domain lexicon. I purchased the Lexham on Pre-pub and enjoy it, although I am weak in the Greek language. The Greek is morphologically tagged and can be keylinked to your favorite lexicon. It was cheaper than NA27. The English translation is a fresh one according to the preface and the Greek if I'm not mistaken is from UBS 4, similar to NA27.
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6 ἦν δὲ ἐκεῖ πηγὴ τοῦ Ἰακώβ . ὁ ēn de ekei pēgē tou Iakōb ho was4 and1 there5 well3 — Jacob’s2 — εἰμί δέ ἐκεῖ πηγή ὁ Ἰακώβ ὁ eimi de ekei pēgē ho Iakōb ho VIAI3S CLN BP NNSF DGSM XP DNSM to be and there spring, well the Jacob the 85.1 89.87 83.2 7.57 92.24 93.157 92.24 2258 1161 1563 4077 3588 2384 3588
οὖν Ἰησοῦς κεκοπιακὼς ἐκ τῆς
oun Iēsous kekopiakōs ek tēs so Jesus [because he] had become tireda from the οὖν Ἰησοῦς κοπιάω ἐκ ὁ oun Iēsous kopiaō ek ho CLI NNSM VRAP-SNM P DGSF then, so Jesus to become weary, to become tired from the 89.50 93.169 23.78 89.25 92.24 3767 2424 2872 1537 3588 ὁδοιπορίας ἐκαθέζετο οὕτως ἐπὶ τῇ πηγῇ · hodoiporias ekathezeto houtōs epi tē pēgē journey sat down thus at the well ὁδοιπορία καθέζομαι οὕτως ἐπί ὁ πηγή hodoiporia kathezomai houtōs epi ho pēgē NGSF VIUI3S B P DDSF NDSF journey to sit down thus at, near the spring, well 15.20 17.12 61.9 83.23 92.24 7.57 3597 2516 3779 1909 3588 4077 ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη hōra ēn hōs hektē hour4 it was1 about2 the sixth3 ὥρα εἰμί ὡς ἕκτος hōra eimi hōs hektos NNSF VIAI3S CAM JNSF hour to be about, approximately sixth 67.199 13.1 78.42 60.53 5610 2258 5613 1623
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6 ἦν δὲ ἐκεῖ πηγὴ τοῦ Ἰακώβ . ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς was4 and1 there5 well3 — Jacob’s2 — so Jesus κεκοπιακὼς ἐκ τῆς ὁδοιπορίας [because he] had become tireda from the journey ἐκαθέζετο οὕτως ἐπὶ τῇ πηγῇ · ὥρα ἦν ὡς sat down thus at the well hour4 it was1 about2 ἕκτη . the sixth3 Previous reply showed the same verse, although not formatted as nice as on the Logos screen, with Greek manuscript, transliterated, English literal, Lemma, Lemma transliteration, morphology, English lexical, Louw-Nida #, and Strongs number. This post is just Greek manuscript and English Literal. In the view section of Logos you can promote where you want this information and you can subtract the stuff you don't want.Greek Only View:6 ἦν δὲ ἐκεῖ πηγὴ τοῦ Ἰακώβ. ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς κεκοπιακὼς ἐκ τῆς ὁδοιπορίας ἐκαθέζετο οὕτως ἐπὶ τῇ πηγῇ· ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη.0 -
George Somsel said:EstherJones said:
Still, I would like to point out that if I had had the chance to purchase those, then realized that they were of no use to me unless I studied the original languages myself, it might have spurred me on to greater efforts in that direction. And surely that's a good thing.
Esther
I would agree that having an impetus to learn the original languages is a good thing, but I should point out that it is a lengthy path which involves much work if one is to attain any proficiency. If one doesn't gain at least a certain level of proficiency then the effort may not be totally wasted, but it isn't all that productive.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or touch not the Pierian spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.Alexander Pope
An Essay on CriticismI notice your quotes both in this post and in your signature line--they are not scripture, nor based on scripture, but rather of famous men, maybe even fathers of the faith. That is all well and good, but what does God have to say about the pursuit of knowledge?
If you'll indulge this uneducated lay person, I'd like to encourage you to look up the following scriptures (and heck, why not use your Logos while you are at it?):
2 Peter 1:5
2 Peter 3:18
Proverbs 8:10
Philippians 1:9
So a pursuit of knowledge, even if my life ends before I truly acquire it, is scripturally a good thing (it may be dangerous to learn only a little bit, but the pursuit of it keeps me out of the bars and nightclubs!).
Scripture also enjoins a right and gracious use of same--God grant that we all seek His wisdom in the pursuit and use of the knowledge He allows us to attain.
I won't waste any more of your valuable time with my pursuit, however. I have learned what I needed to know from this thread.
Esther
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I believe we are told by Jesus to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. So then, if we feel compeled to learn some Greek to increase our understanding, even if it is just using the exegetical guide in Logos, is that not showing love of God by trying to learn more about Him, resulting in jopeful increased closeness to Him?
Brian Whalen
http://www.mcnazarene.com
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EstherJones said:
If you'll indulge this uneducated lay person, I'd like to encourage you to look up the following scriptures (and heck, why not use your Logos while you are at it?):
...
So a pursuit of knowledge, even if my life ends before I truly acquire it, is scripturally a good thing (it may be dangerous to learn only a little bit, but the pursuit of it keeps me out of the bars and nightclubs!).
Scripture also enjoins a right and gracious use of same--God grant that we all seek His wisdom in the pursuit and use of the knowledge He allows us to attain.
I won't waste any more of your valuable time with my pursuit, however. I have learned what I needed to know from this thread.
Esther
I would never encourage anyone to avoid learning. I only intend that you should understand that learning a language such as Greek or Hebrew is not a 6 month exercise for 3 days a week. True understanding of a language takes time and practice. If you're up to it, go for it.
Don't ever feel that you are wasting my time. If I feel I am wasting it, I won't reply.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Unless you are willing to take the time to really examine the lexicon entry (or perhaps use the reference browser to see if the passage you are studying is listed in the entry and how it is classified) you're basically throwing darts at the board. This is why I suggested a commentary. If it is a decent commentary, the author has some knowledge of how the words are used.
Agreed. Whatever route one takes will take time - and I use Active Bible Reference to highlight a contextual definition. The LGNTI offers a context-sensitive Louw-Nida number and gloss so I can match the LN number to one of the definitions in DBL Greek and compare glosses. LGNTI also offers lexical/grammatical notes.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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By reading some of the post they do not know what the interlinear does. Click on the english word and any Hebrew/ Greek Dictionary you have in your library can be accessed in seconds. IT IS NOT JUST A INTERLINEAR, it is instant access to all or the dictionaries one chooses to use. I got my reverse interlinear attending a LOGOS TRAINING CAMP. THE CAMP WAS WELL WORTH THE MONEY. The reverse linterlinear made it worth twice the cost
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Gay Ulrich said:
By reading some of the post they do not know what the interlinear does. Click on the english word and any Hebrew/ Greek Dictionary you have in your library can be accessed in seconds. IT IS NOT JUST A INTERLINEAR, it is instant access to all or the dictionaries one chooses to use. I got my reverse interlinear attending a LOGOS TRAINING CAMP. THE CAMP WAS WELL WORTH THE MONEY. The reverse interlinear made it worth twice the cost
Yes, I agree. I use the reverse interlinear just for the initial orientation about the used word in the original text (I know I could do that going directly to NA27). I just use it instead of old way of using KJV with Strong numbers (sorry George for mentioning here this name [:)]) I never do any (translation, exegetical, hermeneutical) conclusions by looking just at the reverse interlinear or even by looking at NA27 interlinear and the literal translation. It just helps me and makes it easier (not so much in Greek i know better, but in Hebrew I am still learning) to get very quickly to the particular word and then by clicking at it to BDAG/HALOT and tons of other resources.
And still, I never do a conclusion about the key issue I want to address in preaching/teaching in that moment. I always go further to the commentaries (WBC, UBS Handbooks, NIGTC etc.) So, I use interlinears (more N27 interlinear then other) but I am not naive to just grab the result from there and go say to people, that is how it should be translated. It is very natural to understand the problem for people like us here in our part of Europe if you live in multi-lingual territory and you just have to use 4-5 languages all the time.You know how tricky the translation can be [:)]
Bohuslav
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