Eminem & the Roman Catholic Church

Milkman
Milkman Member Posts: 4,880 ✭✭✭
in English Forum

In 2009 Eminem's song "We Made You" sold over 167,000 downloads.

Now I know we're not all if not all of us Eminem groupies but I want to play off his title - We Made You and tweak it to, "Who Made You?" and apply it to the RCC.

I'm slowly doing a deep dive into the relationship between the RCC and the events leading up to Luther and then maybe afterwards.

So here's my question and my apologies if I've offended anyone with my association between the Rapper and the RCC. It's a Canadian thing to be sorry, so "they" say.

I'm looking for bipartisan resources whether in Logos or otherwise, that track the beginning and development of the Church of Rome up to the 17th C.

mm.

NOT to be confused with eMineM 🤣

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  • Heidi Carson
    Heidi Carson Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 3 ✭
    edited January 17 Answer ✓

    Have you read "quenching the Spirit"? If i understand your query correctly - and my memory serves me well - I think what you're looking for is in there.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Quenching-Spirit-Discover-Charasmatic-controversy/dp/0884194329

  • Heidi Carson
    Heidi Carson Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 3 ✭
    edited January 17

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 4,880 ✭✭✭

    @Heidi. Nope, not yet, but thanks for the lead😁

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,107
    edited January 17

    Sorry but I can't find any resources that are specific enough as the Reformation did not take place throughout the whole Catholic Church but rather in locations where certain aberrations in doctrine had been recurrent for centuries and certain social changes were occurring. I would look at theologians who sympathized with the proto-Protestants but did not break from the church e.g. Erasmus of Rotterdam, Johann Reuchlin, Johannes von Staupitz, Jacques Lefèvre d'Etaples (Faber Stapulensis), Johann Geiler von Kaysersberg, Lorenzo Valla. . . and James Hitchcock's History of the Catholic Church: From the Apostolic Age to the Third Millennium. I would also read Denzinger's Enchiridion Symbolorum: A Compendium of Creeds, Definitions and Declarations of the Catholic Church (old edition is in Verbum) excerpts from the time prior to and during the reformation to track down relevant documents

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 4,880 ✭✭✭
    edited January 17

    You know maybe I've asked in a muddled way. I suppose I should have asked this.

    Why was the RCC the "established" church since the 1st C? Who made it so? Weren't there any other options? Was the Roman Church put on earth by God and first headed by old St. Pete? If the pre-Reformers and Reformers balked so much against the Roman church would that tell us that somethings were not kosher? Also, what made these anti-RC people so miffed at them that they gave their lives for? Very confusing. I just want to figure it all before I meet ole Pete at those pearly gates 😉

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,107

    @Jason Stone (Logos)

    @Milkman

    Where did Milkman's response go? Where can I see it to figure out why it disappeared?

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,107
    edited January 18

    @Milkman

    Why was the RCC the "established" church since the 1st C? 

    First, it is NOT the Roman (rite) Catholic Church that was the established church since the first century. It was the Orthodox-Catholic Church - which split into a schism (not heresy) over primarily cultural and personality issues in the 11th century. It was/is the "established" church as it is the only church that can show a continuous lineage and teaching back to the apostles. There are a number of churches that have been labeled "heretical" rather than "schismatic" that ecumenical discussions have called the label into question which is why I usually speak of the ACELO churches rather than the Catholic Church.

    Second, I refuse to direct you to resources that would fulfill what you are requesting as you request it.

    • If you read church history, it should be church history not a Catholic apologetics book.
    • If you want to understand the reformation, you must do so in a broader perspective e.g. (a) Why did the fall of the Roman empire set the Latin Church off on a different path of development than the Byzantine and Syriac Churches? (b) why were the Germanic states often "problem churches"? (c ) what was the effect on theology of a new understanding of the individual in humanism? (d) what was the reason some reformers became political pawns? … and so on. This is not my primary interest, so my knowledge of resources is weak. A start for raising and answering these questions:

    https://www.logos.com/product/311079/rebel-in-the-ranks-martin-luther-the-reformation-and-the-conflicts-that-continue-to-shape-our-world

    https://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Reformation-Religious-Revolution-Secularized/dp/0674088050/ref%3Dsr_1_1?

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Jason Stone (Logos)
    Jason Stone (Logos) Administrator, Community Manager, Logos Employee Posts: 686
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354141#Comment_1354141

    @MJ. Smith @Milkman, can you speak to the content of the post(s) that is missing? Maybe then I could do more advanced searching. There is nothing being held in Spam or Reported content.

    Sr. Community Manager at Logos.

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,107
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354319#Comment_1354319

    It was visible up until the Milkman post "You know maybe I've asked in a muddled way. I suppose I should have asked this." at which point it disappeared for many hours - at least 8 hours before I went to bed. I had a notice for that post but was unable to navigate to the thread through the notice.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Br Damien-Joseph OSB
    Br Damien-Joseph OSB Member Posts: 223 ✭✭✭

    To the OP:

    This book may only get you the first ten out of the seventeen centuries you are looking for, but John Anthony McGuckin's The Path of Christianity: The First Thousand Years (InterVarsity Press, 2017). I don't know if Logos has it, since I'm on my mobile device, and don't recall Logos' skewed catalog carrying McGuckin before. 😉 🤣

  • NB.Mick
    NB.Mick MVP Posts: 16,071
    edited January 23
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354867#Comment_1354867

    you mean this, right? https://www.logos.com/product/148377/the-path-of-christianity-the-first-thousand-years?queryId=b4662731085b293732f64fcd355ddc66

    EDIT: There's quite a number of this author's works in Logos: https://www.logos.com/search?filters=author-87698_Author&sortBy=PriceLow&limit=60&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=all&useFuzzySearch=false&viewMode=list

    Have joy in the Lord! Smile

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