Microsoft is discontinuing support for Windows 10 on October 14, 2025
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See also Europe, where there's no monopoly on pop culture in technology, and Apple has a comparably low market share.
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But we all know what's up. Apple competes at the most richest of all companies in the world because their average order value is higher than their competitors. As in people overpay for the same thing. Considering worse options and compatibility, worse things. This is the result of excellent marketing and brand loyalty. I'm convinced that iTunes and the iPod saved Apple from obscurity. Apple maintains their longstanding leadership in the music industry; being known as the hardware and software moderator; the go to place for all things music; production and consumption. Even to this day they maintain their lead I think, at least with reputation and licensing.
Another distinction: At a University the Health Sciences tends heavily toward the Mac; the rest of campus is primarily PC.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The endless debate between Apple and PC will never end. I started with PC with Windows 3.1. Windows 11 to me is like a wannabe Mac. Win XP was the last for me. In business I still have a PC but for personal use I discovered the world of Mac. I also find the value of my phone, laptop, and now watch being unified. To each their own.
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I have a laptop with Windows 10 and had not intended to upgrade quite yet (it doesn't qualify for Windows 11) since it still works well. If I don't get another computer with Windows 11, are you saying that I will no longer be able to use a Logos subscription?
I hadn't planned on spending $$$ on a new laptop this year and will need to reconsider the subscription if I need a new computer to run it.
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It's silly to think Apple computers are anything less than robust computers being used with serious applications in business, scientific, software development, media production, and personal uses. I have used both for many years, professionally as well as personally.
As a Verbum on Mac user, I can also say it runs like a champ - fast - very fast in fact, and functionally identical to Logos/Verbum on a Windows platform.
I put this together this weekend, for one due to the inaccurate comments, but also because a number of people seem to be contemplating a move away from a Windows 10 computer and are entertaining both Windows and Mac because they are not tied to Windows as a next step. I have sources for every statement in here, if anyone wants additional information:
Hardware Performance (Apple Silicon vs. Intel/AMD) – The latest M4 Max chip continues Apple’s dominance in efficiency, offering better performance per watt than Intel and AMD processors found in Windows PCs. For instance, in the Cinebench 2024 Multi-Core benchmark, the M4 Max achieves a score of 1,756, outperforming the Intel Core i9-13980HX, which scores 1,495. In another example, the M3 Max chip in the MacBook Pro delivers similar multi-core performance to Intel’s 13th-gen i9-13980HX, yet it consumes nearly 70% less power under load - resulting in less heat, less (or no) throttling, less battery use, and less wear-and-tear on electronics lifetime. Despite this higher performance, the M4 Max operates with a lower thermal design power (TDP), contributing to cooler and quieter operation and longer battery life in MacBooks compared to many high-performance Windows laptops. Additionally, Apple’s unified memory architecture (UMA) allows the CPU, GPU, and Neural Engine to access the same memory pool, reducing bottlenecks, whereas Windows machines often face memory bandwidth limitations due to separate components like the CPU, GPU and supporting electronics. Macs just have a better architecture.
Software Optimization – Macs are optimized specifically for Apple’s hardware, and third-party software is approved only after complying with a rigorous requirements spec ensuring better efficiency, less compatibility issues, proper software/algorithm standards, and fewer system slowdowns compared to Windows PCs. Windows computers include a wide variety of third-party components which are not a homogeneous hardware/software solution. Many professional apps—like Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro—are exclusive to macOS, while Adobe’s Creative Suite, DaVinci Resolve, and Xcode are often better optimized for Macs.
Security & Stability – macOS is built on a Unix-based architecture with built-in security features like Gatekeeper, XProtect, and FileVault encryption, greatly reducing vulnerability to malware. In contrast, Windows is more frequently targeted by viruses and often requires third-party antivirus software. Macs also avoid issues like driver conflicts with forced Windows updates that disrupt workflows.
Longevity & Value – Macs typically receive software updates for 7–8 years or more, while many Windows PCs become obsolete sooner due to fragmented manufacturer support. The oldest Apple computer model currently supported to run macOS Sequoia (current version of MacOS) is the iMac Pro, which was released in December 2017. Because Windows 11 has strict system requirements, including TPM 2.0, Secure Boot, and a supported CPU, most if not all PCs released in December 2017 or earlier do not meet these requirements and hence are already obsolete. One article I read estimated 50% of the Windows PC installed base today does not support Windows 11 requirements. Apple’s tight integration between hardware and software ensures that even older Macs maintain performance over time, whereas Windows PCs tend to slow down due to bloatware, registry errors, and inefficient system processes.
User Experience – Macs feature high-quality materials, Retina displays, and precise trackpads that often surpass similarly priced Windows machines. For example, the MacBook Pro’s Liquid Retina XDR display stands out with its higher peak brightness and advanced mini-LED technology, providing superior HDR performance and color accuracy specs. Comparing brightness specs of laptops displays also shows a huge difference. While there are high-end standalone monitors users can buy that are comparable to Macbook Pro laptop displays, the MacBook Pro has sustained and peak brightness of 1000/1600 nits; some examples of better Windows laptop displays, the Asus Zenbook 14X OLED (Q420) is rated at 400/600 nits, and the Dell XPS 13 9350 is rated at 377/513 nits. The macOS UI is also more consistent, while Windows frequently undergoes drastic UI changes (e.g., Windows 8, 10, 11), leading to compatibility issues and usability frustrations.
Ecosystem benefits - Work is much more efficient than with Windows when text messages, photos, reminders, calendar, and other utilities are natively integrated and shared between all of my devices and computers. Edits and updates are instantly available across all devices/computers. While solutions exist in many of these areas on Windows PCs, they are clearly an 'add on' requiring some technical skill, time, and sometimes money. I know this from experience trying to get my wife's Windows laptop organized efficiently with these types of data.
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@Magistra Time is running out for the use of Windows 10 with Logos. Perhaps Logos will extend compatibility for a short time beyond their normal processes as suggested in this thread. I would budget for a replacement laptop at or soon after Windows 10 is out of support. Depending upon your Logos library size you might only need a basic Mac M1, 8Gb, 256. Pick one up new or used at a steep discount.
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I hadn't planned on spending $$$ on a new laptop this year and will need to reconsider the subscription if I need a new computer to run it.
Well October is still a long way off. And when Logos does drop support, it doesn’t mean it stops working on your computer. It just means it might stop updating at some point in time.
But keeping up to date with the latest version of Logos isn’t mandatory.
And it is always possible Microsoft might cave by then and extend support.
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That is interesting. Health sciences prefer mac. Maybe there is something there about how people perceive things; that people who like health things more gravitate to the mac.
Ya, you supported my statement. With less American pop culture dominating the main stream, people choose Windows. Apart from the horrible electric eye, that is the obvious choice.
Macs do have comparable specs. The common person doesn't use these specs to their potential. But they still remind us of these numbers to help soothe the extra thousand dollars they spent for the same result of the benefits they have from using a computer. By that I mean the same result + the Apple logo on their device. So they have a powerful machine running almost idle to perform their daily tasks. Buying a super car to do the speed limit in the city. Buying a yacht not because they care about how nice it is, but because they like being that guy in their social circle that takes them for boat parties.
Apple requirements are stringent. Ya half of the problem with Macs is half the software doesn't work with it. So you spend more to get a worse thing because without the software what do you have.
Macs cannot "retain performance". That's impossible. When a better computer is made, the old one is obsolete, no matter the brand. This is the same math about Microsoft's 365. You could spend more to keep the Office stand alone forever, but after three years the monthly cost is the same as paying for the new standalone Office bundle anyway.
Macs have "superior" retina display and higher peak brightness? Do you really stare at the brightest light possible? I can't suffer anything that's not dark mode anymore, it's annoying. And the colors; I don't think I've ever noticed the 0.005% difference in the various claims of better colour. What is the point of that difference? Are you a professional colour grader for Paramount Pictures? This is similar to the 48kHz vs 44.1kHz sample rate debate with music.
Work is more efficient? You want to run some speed tests against me? Because the point of my post was about customization. That I have nine helper apps running on my taskbar right now for efficiency. None of which I could use on the Mac. And a Corsair macro mouse and keyboard, which can be used for either OS. I've built profiles for basically every app I use, for efficiency sake; and the best MIDI hardware integration with FL Studio in the world. I would love to see someone do with their "Final Cut Pro" what I can do with FL Studio + Bome's MTP (Maybe not Davinci Resolve, but that is free anyway). Adobe is yet another assembly of overly priced scam artistry, but that's a tale for another time.
Windows slows down due to bloatware? Haha that's exactly my point. That we have the compatibility with the tools and the know how to deal with these things. While a Mac user says the computer gets slower cause all these things that I have no control over. I agree, you have no control over it, because a Mac is a large overly priced smartphone. You go to Stack Exchange, Github, IFTTT, Geeks For Geeks, Wolfram Alpha, Power User, etc. what do you find there? Mac users? Mac users are primarily concerned with other things in life; they just want their computer to work. Us Windows users are computer enthusiasts.
This is one of the reasons AI has had such strong uptake. The market couldn't care less what's under the hood. They just want to get from point A to point B. Also why trap music and gangster rap compete at the top of the charts, being the worst music humanly possible. The normies don't care about the quality of the music; they just want to have fun and be cool with their friends.
This isn't the hill I want to die on; I was just making some points; I have bigger fish to worry about. But I have nothing to be ashamed about, choosing the best products for my personal requirements.
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Thank you for a very nice post discussing Mac vs Windows issues.
I would add that the two most frequently heard arguments for sticking with Windows no longer apply.
- I know Windows already. It would be too hard to learn MacOS. - a very valid point as there is a large learning curve moving from one to the other. But with Windows 11 Microsoft has made it a large learning curve for Windows 10 users as well. The new interface looks a lot like (surprise) MacOS
- Apple products are too expensive. - this used to be a valid point. But in today’s market not so much. Yes you can find cheap Windows machines with inferior hardware. But that is not a Fair comparison.
2 - I know Windows already. It would be too hard to learn MacOS. - a very valid point as there is a large learning curve moving from one to the other. But with Windows 11 Microsoft has made it a large learning curve for Windows 10 users as well. The new interface looks a lot like (surprise) MacOS
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Well October is still a long way off.
True, but prices will skyrocket when October approaches, probably earlier than later.
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Everyone has a right to an opinion. The nice thing about opinions is a person doesn't have to justify them with any facts, they just are their opinion. Good luck on your next hill looking for your next fish! :-)
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Along the line of @Kevin Houghtaling 's recommendation of a low-cost Mac that could run Logos well, @Magistra , are you familiar with the Apple refurbished store? They take trade ins, completely refurbish them and offer a 1-year limited warranty. They also offer a 14 day return window, no questions asked. So, if you decided to go that route, you have 2 weeks to see how happy you are with desktop Logos running on it. Yu can even purchase AppleCare for the computer, protecting the laptop against damage, loss, failure, theft, etc. depending on the plan chosen.
Plus, you are buying direct from Apple - you can have it shipped or pick it up at a nearby store.
I say all that because I found a laptop on the site with slightly better specs than what @Kevin Houghtaling mentioned, for only $929.
It has a 15.3" display (2880-by-1864 native resolution with support for 1 billion colors), 8GB memory, 256GB SSD, and it's an M2-based Macbook Air - very portable if you want to take it somewhere - it only weighs 3.3 pounds! The battery is great - 15 hours of web browsing, 18 hours of video playback. Sound is very good, it has a 6-speaker sound system, WiFi, and more. It's a very current model, only released June 2023. And by past history, this computer will be fully supported by Apple's MacOS (and thereby for Logos too) until at least 2031, most likely. It has the same architecture as the latest and greatest computer, no hardware/design showstoppers to inhibit compatibility in the near future.
Check it out on the refurbished site here or look around at other models. The Apple Refurbished Store is great, I know many who have purchased from there and been very happy.
I am not sure where you live, but this might be a possibility for you. There are choices that won't break the bank if you want to go in that direction.
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Maybe there is something there about how people perceive things; that people who like health things more gravitate to the mac.
Sort of … the reason is the need for graphics
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thank you for the advice and ideas for upgrading.
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@NetworkGeek
February 18The Apple Refurbished Store is great, I know many who have purchased from there and been very happy.For those who qualify, id.me has discounts for Military, Nurses, First Responders, Teachers, Government Employees, Medical Professionals, & Students that includes Apple 10% Off for Military & Veterans ⇒ reduce refurbished price.
The id.me shopping discounts also include many Windows computers.
@NetworkGeek
February 17Hardware Performance (Apple Silicon vs. Intel/AMD) – The latest M4 Max chip continues Apple’s dominance in efficiency, offering better performance per watt than Intel and AMD processors found in Windows PCs. For instance, in the Cinebench 2024 Multi-Core benchmark, the M4 Max achieves a score of 1,756, outperforming the Intel Core i9-13980HX, which scores 1,495. In another example, the M3 Max chip in the MacBook Pro delivers similar multi-core performance to Intel’s 13th-gen i9-13980HX, yet it consumes nearly 70% less power under load - resulting in less heat, less (or no) throttling, less battery use, and less wear-and-tear on electronics lifetime. Despite this higher performance, the M4 Max operates with a lower thermal design power (TDP), contributing to cooler and quieter operation and longer battery life in MacBooks compared to many high-performance Windows laptops. Additionally, Apple’s unified memory architecture (UMA) allows the CPU, GPU, and Neural Engine to access the same memory pool, reducing bottlenecks, whereas Windows machines often face memory bandwidth limitations due to separate components like the CPU, GPU and supporting electronics. Macs just have a better architecture.GeekBench has benchmark browsers for Mac & other Processors
3926 = fastest single core Mac is MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2024) Apple M4 Max @ 4.5 GHz (14 CPU Cores, 32 GPU Cores)
3134 = fastest single core processor is an Intel Core i9-13900KS (that is 20% slower for single threaded tasks)
Multicore benchmarks show 23053 for Mac, which is 6 % faster than 21659 for the 13th Generation Intel Core i9-13900KS (the fastest 14th Generation Intel Core i9 benchmark of 20694 is 5 % slower than the fastest 13th Generation Intel Core i9)
Keep Smiling 😊
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I have an 8-year-old laptop with a 256GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. Fortunately for me the i7-7700HQ processor allowed me to upgrade to Windows 11. Even after seven years Logos still runs very fast on my device. The only issue that I have with it is that the SSD is too small. Most of the time when I am in my office at church I just use the web app because it gives me access to all the resources in my library instead of only a selection in the Windows version – even though the downloaded resources on my laptop would still count as a large theological library.
I had been saving up money last year to buy a new laptop but I never seemed to find a suitable device. In the end I decided I did not need a new laptop after all. Even during the years that this laptop was my main computing device I used it either in my study at home or in my office at church. At home I have a desktop PC (AMD Ryzen 7 3700 8-core, 32 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD) which I now use as my main device for studying the Bible and writing my sermons.
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3134 = fastest single core processor is an Intel Core i9-13900KS (that is 20% slower for single threaded tasks)
Why even consider buying a processor that has known stability problems which Intel has not sufficiently fixed?
The Core i9-13900KS has been reported to have voltage issues, primarily related to potentially high voltage requests from the CPU itself, leading to instability problems like crashes and blue screens of death, with many users experiencing this issue due to a microcode algorithm error that needs to be addressed with a BIOS update from Intel; this is considered a known issue with the 13th and 14th generation Intel CPUs, and users should check for available updates to mitigate the problem. https://www.google.com/search?q=Core+i9-13900KS+voltage+problems
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I just came across an interesting YouTube video how to run Win 11 on incompatible PCs. It's in German, so I won't bother pasting the link. This is not about the workaround to disable the compatibility checks, which Microsoft disabled in the last Windows update.
There's a "light" Windows 11 edition that doesn't have any of those ridiculous requirements called Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC. It's supposed to run on devices like ATMs, advertising screens, ticket machines etc. but it can also run on ordinary PCs. In fact, system requirements are lower than for Win 10.
There are a few downsides:
- Upgrading from Win 10 is not supported. The computer needs to be wiped and installed from scratch.
- Only available in English
- No preinstalled features except four or five very basic ones (browser, paint, snipping tool…)
- No support for Windows Store and Windows Store apps
- Official licenses only available to enterprise customers, but there's a "gray" market on eBay…
- Doesn't receive any feature updates. Just security updates.
On the other hand, this Windows edition is a lot less bloated, has very low requirements, and will be supported for at least 10 years.
If you want to try it, don't forget to back up your documents and any license keys for software and apps that you'd need to re-install.
Windows 11 IoT trial is available here:
Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
After 90 days, you can activate it with a cheap license from eBay.
I'll do a couple of tests, and will post an update in a few weeks.
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There's a "light" Windows 11 edition
Great idea. This could work for anyone that is not concerned about the Enterprise license. There is also an “unofficial” stripped down Windows 11 installer available called Tiny11 that gives similar results, but uses a normal license and still gets all updates.
Tiny11 is a streamlined version of Windows 11 that's designed to run on older or less powerful computers. It's based on Windows 11 Pro and is intended to be more user-friendly than a standard Windows installation. Features
Uses less space than a standard Windows installation
Can be upgraded from Windows 10
Can be installed on unsupported devices
Includes fewer screens and no mouse cursor during the OOBE process
The Start menu only includes Settings and File Explorer
Removes features like Microsoft account steps, license agreement, and PIN
Windows store can be installed, but requires use of the command line. Not recommended to the less technically capable, as Microsoft does not support it. But Logos will not know the difference.
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Wow. I would be shocked if Logos supports this, if a user has a problem. This is not Windows 11 "light", Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC is an OEM version for 'Internet of Things' devices, not end user computers. OEMs are organizations that are building some sort of device and they want to embed Windows 11 in it.
Moreover, you notice how it says you run it in eval for 90 days then activate it?
Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC is not available through retail or standard volume licensing. Instead, it requires:
- A valid license obtained through an authorized Microsoft IoT distributor or OEM.
- A Volume License Key (VLK) or an OEM Activation 3.0 (OA3) Digital Product Key.
So how will you get a licrnse to run it past 90 days?
Notice also the fine print says it's compatible with Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC, but nowhere does it say it's compatible with Windows 11 Retail?
And end-user won't be able to get a valid license to activate it.
No license - no support - unlikely Logos supports it - using it for the wrong purpose. Not a wise idea.
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