Sermon Builder is awful, please revert it back.

Josh Bernard · 2025-02-26T02:30:50+00:00

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Logos support, we appreciate all the work you are doing. But it's quite obvious that the changes to sermon builder are not going smoothly. Please make an immediate patch to bring us back to before the last change. This is our lively hood and responsibility to feed our congregation. You are causing us more problems, and more time.

I appeal to you as fellow workers for the kingdom to do something ASAP about this. The forum is filled with people just having bugs, to disliking the new layout and formatting. I understand it's usually a loud minority of people who complain. But every pastor I know has logos and everyone I've been able to ask does not like the changes. I even have a pastor on staff who just started using the sermon editor and asked me why it did things the way it does (things you could work around or didn't happen in the last version.)

Please please reconsider these changes, add a legacy sermon builder, or just simply allow us to go back in logos versions.

Sincerely, a Pastor who doesn't have time to mess with this.

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Comments

Jonathan Bradley

Josh,

What are the issues that you are having with sermon builder that make you feel it is awful? Please read my disclaimer below.

I ask this with some level of ignorance, partly due to the fact that I have not read all of the latest forum posts on Sermon Builder issues since v.40 dropped, and secondly due to the fact that for what I use sermon builder for, or maybe how I use sermon build would be a better way of putting it, v.40 seems to bring it back to the same functionality it had before v.39 seemed to cause all sorts of problems.

Josh Bernard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1359973#Comment_1359973

It is slower. I type fast. If I am teaching on John 1:1-14 I type John 1:1-14 and press enter. I expect my reference to be there. Now you have to delay for 1-2 seconds before hitting enter.
When you want to open a resource you are using it now requires 2 clicks in stead on 1 click. Just let me click once to enter the resource, let me right click for the other options. Adding more steps is NEVER the right option in programming.
Formatting is much worse for one verse per line formatting. It is, for some reason, double spaced. Which means as I'm preaching it takes several page turns to get through a text instead of it all fitting nicely.
Worst of all, to quote a commentary or whatever it may be, you have to paste into wordpad or a word document, then copy it back into sermon builder. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to not properly cite a source you quote, it's at the very least immoral. The old version you could simply paste after any text and it would properly cite your resource.
There are other issues that other users have, there are several posts in the "update forums posts", in the feedback section, and other forum from other users.

The biggest thing is changing work flows. We can argue about formatting, but you changed the formatting and it caused the work flow to change in relation to how fast we can work. It's now objectively and measurably slower for ALL users. This is completely unacceptable for any product let alone one that many of us have sunk thousands of dollars. The only things most many users have spent more money on than logos is housing and transportation.

Josh Bernard

Just found #6: Hebrew text is half the size it should be/was. So you have to choose between huge English letters or too small to read Hebrew letters.

Joey Midgett

7) The copy and pasting of outlines from a sermon outline resource, you first have to copy into Word then back into Sermon Editor to be in a workable format to edit

8) when editing outline from problem 7, when you place your cursor in the middle of a line or anywhere to say edit a word to a word you like better, once you start to type, it pastes the whole line over again and then that becomes undeletable and you have to jump through time consuming hoops to get rid of it and try to start again.

Joey Midgett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/246890/sermon-builder-is-awful-please-revert-it-back

Josh, I would advise you to change the title to say "Bug" in it to get the attention of the Faithlife staff.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1359999#Comment_1359999

Actually, in the new forums it is a tag of bug that gets their attention.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

@Josh Bernard — I'm sorry for the trouble you're having. I've asked someone from the sermons team to follow up here.

Jerry Bush

The delay when entering a Bible reference is driving me crazy (driving me mad for you, Mark) 😀

Josh Bernard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1359999#Comment_1359999

The trouble is I don't think any of these are bugs, I think they are design changes and we can't be ok with with this.

Doc B

«I'm pretty sure it's illegal to not properly cite a source you quote, it's at the very least immoral.»

@Josh Bernard no, it is not illegal (at least, in the US). Yes, it is unethical.

I don't use the SB as much as you, but the changes to the original-language font size is problemmatic when I do. Hopefully these issues will be fixed SRTL.

MJ. Smith

@Doc B What does SRTL stand for? it appears to be a synonym for ASAP?

Josh Bernard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1360078#Comment_1360078

Sooner rather than later

Savanna Lineberger

@Josh Bernard @Joey Midgett Thank you both for providing us with a list of these issues, and I am sorry to hear you and others are still having trouble with sermon builder. I have confirmed we have cases for the following bugs:

Delay in passage blocks appearing when typing quickly
Extra spacing when formatted to one verse per line
Hebrew text sizing
Editing text that has been pasted into a sermon creating formatting issues, inserting extra characters, pasting in additional words- Paste without formatting (leading to an inability to paste plain text accompanied by the resource reference)

@Joey Midgett I also took a look at the behavior noted in your post about pasting a sermon outline into a sermon doc. I do see the difference in the current behavior compared to previous versions, and will work with the team to see what we can do to improve that specific area. For now, a possible workaround that might help get you unstuck, is selecting the text style dropdown and selecting "Normal" from the list. I know this is far from ideal, but will hopefully save you time in the short term.

I have been looking into another issue noted and would appreciate some clarification so I can ensure the team is fixing the correct problems:
"When you want to open a resource you are using it now requires 2 clicks in stead on 1 click. Just let me click once to enter the resource, let me right click for the other options. Adding more steps is NEVER the right option in programming."
I have not yet been able to reproduce this specific issue. Are you encountering this when clicking on a resource title in a passage block? Or in a different situation?

Thank you all again for continuing to provide us this feedback, I will continue to monitor this post for any additional issues and make sure the team sees these cases.

Joey Midgett

@Savanna Lineberger Thanks for looking into these issues.

Brian Price

@Savanna Lineberger Please fix the copy and paste function in Sermon Builder. The ability to create formatted Bible reference slides instead of just general content slides has been removed.

If you build your sermons in MS Word with verses that were copied and pasted from Logos and then send the entire document to Sermon Builder, you no longer have the option to create slides for the imported verses. You can only create a content slide which does not export to Proclaim with the correct formatting (Proclaim will not recognize it as a "Bible" slide, but a "Content" slide)

I used to be able to simple click near the biblical reference and choose to create a "Bible" slide, then Sermon Builder would automatically create formatted slides for me to export to Proclaim. Since this is no longer an option, I cannot use Sermon Builder at all and have to physically create each slide in Proclaim. This is a HUGE drain on my time as a pastor, please help!

Mattillo

To add to this, today when I right clicked an image from a commentary and sent it to sermon builder it is cut off on the edges. I tried changing the resolution but without success.

Screenshot 2025-02-27 at 16.22.03.png

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1360078#Comment_1360078

"sooner rather than later"…no Oklahoma fans were harmed in the making of this acronym.

Josh Bernard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1360143#Comment_1360143

It's the Bible Verse References. Say I have

John 1:1 ESV

John 1:1 LEB

John 1:1 NKJV

It's much more fluid if we can single click to open the reference. That's how it used to be. Now you get the menu I linked below. This is inconsistent with how a commentary, for example, open with a single click.

You used to be able to control how passages formatted. You could double-click into a passage and it allowed for single click access through links the links.

This allowed consistency for when you're teaching that all links opened the same. I remember watching Dr. Heiser using this feature a lot when teaching and going to references.

Now that verses are in there new auto-format and you can't remove that format. Clicking on the link, then clicking on the option in the menu makes it just that much more cumbersome and the ability to mess something up in the middle of talking.

Maybe we can at least get a ctrl+click to be able to open it in one click as it used to be?

That's the best I can explain it without having an old version of logos and recording a video for what I mean.

TL;DR I wish we had a way so that opening links in Sermon Manager was consistent between Bible passages and commentaries.

Savanna Lineberger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1360150#Comment_1360150

Thank you, Brian. I verified we have a case to bring this functionality back as well.

Savanna Lineberger

@Mattillo thank you for your report, I will take a look at this issue as well. And thank you @Josh Bernard for the additional information, that helps me see the problem better and I will take another look at it.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1360435#Comment_1360435

Good Afternoon Savanna

Any updates on this issue?

Savanna Lineberger

@Mattillo we have a case created for this issue, but we we do not yet have a fix in place. I did notice that the clipping only seemed to occur in the slide view tab, not when exporting to another application. Is this your experience? Or are you seeing it clipped when exporting as well?

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361021#Comment_1361021

Exporting to PPT did render the slide without the crop.

Claude Brown Jr

Save as sermon is not creating slides from passage list, and not allowing creation from content?

Savanna Lineberger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361081#Comment_1361081

Hi @Claude Brown Jr we are aware of these issues and have a case being actively worked on to correct the passage list issue. I will report back here when we have a fix in place for this.

Savanna Lineberger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361048#Comment_1361048

Thanks you for confirming @Mattillo. I confirmed we have a case for the clipping issue and will work on getting a fix.

Savanna Lineberger

I wanted to make sure to keep everyone up to date on the fixes for these issues. We have pending fixes for the text editing bug that was resulting in extra characters being added and wonky formatting. This fix will be shipped to beta soon.

We are continuing to work through the other issues noted in this thread, I will continue to update here as fixes are in place. Thank you all again for your continued feedback!

Jerry Bush

Thank you for the update, Savanna!

I turned a bug into a feature: Before, when I typed out a verse and hit enter, it of course brought the verse in. But sometimes I only want a reference to the verse in my notes and not the entire verse. So now, if I want it to bring the verse in, I wait half a second or so and hit enter. If I only want the reference, I hit enter immediately. Works for me!

Pastor Don Carpenter

One other sermon builder issue I find is when I create a header, the slides often have the text of the header superimposed with the same text in a title format on the same slide. I have to go and correct each slide by hand… annoying.

Savanna Lineberger

Thank you @Pastor Don Carpenter I will take a look at that issue.

Pastor Don Carpenter

Pastor Don Carpenter

Pastor Don Carpenter

For some reason in some slide formats, when I simply type a reference and wait to hit enter, once I do all or some of these boxes are checked by default causing the mess I posted above.

ds. P.J. Kotze

Although occasional delays slow down our typing speed, it remains far more efficient than writing by hand. We become so accustomed to the privilege of speed that we rarely pause to reflect on it. Thanks for the spiritually relevant bugs.

Claude Brown Jr

Still not working. So much for subscription value.