shouldn't footnotes cite the page the book the quotation is from?

Now how can we do serious work here if we cannot properly cite our sources?

What style are you using? Most styles now include separate formats for eBooks without page numbers.

I looked up the book in the sales catalogue and it is typed Media.

There is both an audio version and an ebook version in the Logos catalogue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361828#Comment_1361828

the book is listed (at least) twice in the catalog. One clearly says audio at the top and it is typed media. The other says ebook and I own that.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361827#Comment_1361827

I don't know what you mean by style that I am using.

The format of reference, footnotes, Bibliographies etc. differ depending upon what style you are using - for most people it's usually the style required by the last school they attended:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361838#Comment_1361838

I haven't checked that in at least 10 years. What difference would that make? Don't all styles use page numbers? But I am using the Chicago Manual of Style.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361839#Comment_1361839

Chicago style does include page numbers, but not all citation styles do.
Here are examples of citation styles that do not require page numbers for all citations.(Thi list was AI generated, so take with a grain of salt)

APA Style: Page numbers are required for direct quotes but not for paraphrasing. In paraphrased citations, only the author and year are typically needed.
MLA Style: Page numbers are required for direct quotes and specific references, but if you are discussing an entire work or summarizing its main ideas, page numbers are not necessary.
Harvard Style: Similar to APA, page numbers are required for direct quotes but not for paraphrasing or general references to a work.
IEEE Style: This style uses numbered citations in the text, and page numbers are not typically included unless referencing a specific part of a source.
Turabian Style: Like Chicago style, it requires page numbers for direct quotes but may not require them for general references.

I imagine that whatever style you have Logos set to is citing correctly, it is just a style you may not be used to.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361843#Comment_1361843

thank you. this is the first time this has been a problem. I am unable to find any page numbers in the book. It's a scholarly book, not a novel. Page numbers are important. Logos should know this.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361844#Comment_1361844

Not a problem, I know how frustrating it is when technology does not do what you need it to.
Here is another AI generated answer that may help you find page numbers.
I don't know why the book would not have page numbers, but apparently, not all electronic books do.

Open the Book: Launch the Logos app and open the book you want to view.
Enable Page Numbers: If the book has page numbers, you may need to enable them. Look for a settings icon (often represented by a gear) in the reading pane. Click on it and check for an option related to displaying page numbers.
Use the Table of Contents: Some books have a table of contents that includes page numbers. You can access this from the sidebar or the menu.
Check the Info Panel: Click on the "Info" icon (usually represented by an "i" or a book icon) to see details about the book, which may include page numbers.
Search for Specific Pages: If you know the content you are looking for, you can use the search function to find specific sections, which may help you locate the corresponding page numbers.
Consult the Print Edition: If the digital version does not display page numbers, you can refer to the print edition of the book for accurate page references.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361844#Comment_1361844

I have page numbers enabled in my Logos, and here is how you do it.
Go to the book, find formatting, then markers, and you should see a page numbers mark to check.

Hope this helps.

Screen Shot 2025-03-10 at 9.00.24 AM.png

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361843#Comment_1361843

Sorry but you asked the wrong question. The correct questions asks how styles handle electronic resources without page numbers.

The handling of electronic books without page numbers varies across citation styles. Here’s how the Chicago Manual of Style and other major citation styles address this issue:
Chicago Style
Alternative Locators: For e-books without fixed page numbers, Chicago recommends using alternative locators such as chapter numbers, section headings, or descriptive phrases that follow the organizational structure of the text. For example: chapter 3 or “Introduction” section1 3 7.
Avoid E-Reader Location Numbers: Chicago advises against using location numbers generated by e-readers (e.g., Kindle), as these can vary depending on user settings. If necessary, include the total number of locations for context (e.g., loc. 45 of 1028)1 3.
Format Example:Note: Author, Title (City: Publisher, Year), chapter or section heading.Bibliography: Author. Title. City: Publisher, Year. Format or URL1.
APA Style
Paragraph Numbers and Headings: APA suggests using paragraph numbers (e.g., para. 3) or a combination of headings and paragraph numbers (e.g., Introduction section, para. 5). If the heading is too long, an abbreviated version in quotation marks is acceptable (e.g., “Future of Libraries,” para. 1)2 4 6.
Avoid Location Numbers: Like Chicago, APA discourages citing location numbers from e-readers due to their lack of consistency4 6.
Format Example:In-text citation for a quotation: (Author, Year, "Heading," para. X).
MLA Style
Chapter and Section Locators: MLA recommends citing chapter or section numbers when no page numbers are available. Descriptive phrases or headings can also be used to guide readers3.
Format Example:In-text citation: (Author, Chapter X).
Summary of Key Differences
Style
Preferred Locators
Avoided Locators
Chicago
Chapter/section headings, descriptive phrases
E-reader location numbers
APA
Paragraph numbers, headings + paragraph numbers
E-reader location numbers
MLA
Chapter/section numbers, descriptive phrases
E-reader location numbers
Each style emphasizes providing enough detail to help readers locate the cited material without relying on inconsistent e-reader location data.
Citations:
https://www.easybib.com/guides/citation-guides/chicago-turabian/how-to-cite-e-book-chicago-turabian/
https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/66462/in-text-citation-of-ebook-with-no-page-numbers
https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/17825/how-to-cite-kindle-books-ebooks-when-no-fixed-page-numbers-are-available
https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/citations/quotations/no-page-numbers
https://www.scribbr.com/frequently-asked-questions/no-page-numbers-chicago/
https://askus.library.wwu.edu/faq/116395
https://libguides.westsoundacademy.org/chicago-citation/e-book
https://columbiacollege-ca.libguides.com/apa/booksandebooks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361846#Comment_1361846

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361848#Comment_1361848

wow, it can take all that? I noticed the book has an index. With page numbers. This is a one-time citation in a piece that may never get into print. I'm not going to spend any more time on this. I will call Logos in the morning. I think this is their problem. You want to publish books and you exist to make our Bible work more productive? Include page numbers in your scholarly books.

MJ, thank you so much. You are always incredibly helpful.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361847#Comment_1361847

charlie, thank you

No, none of that is working. I will call Logos in the morning.

@Larry Craig

You want to publish books and you exist to make our Bible work more productive? Include page numbers in your scholarly books.

It isn't that simple. It is the publisher who determines whether or not page numbers are included in the file sent Logos. If Logos were to add them, they would be meaningless as references except to others using Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361872#Comment_1361872

hmm. But like I said, the index of the book has page numbers cited. OK, it's not simple. But you go into the business of book publishing for a scholarly audience, you work harder. I think this is something that they should try to fix.

thanks again

I think this is something that they should try to fix.

Academics are fixing it by making standards for electronic books without page numbers since 2010 or so.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361877#Comment_1361877

OK, but this book has page numbers. The index shows it. I'll reread your fix, but I still think the onus is on Logos here. This book will be used often by scholars, and they shouldn't all have to go scramble for a fix that shouldn't have been needed in the first place.

Graham Criddle

OK, but this book has page numbers. The index shows it.

So are you seeing page numbes in the body of the book?

The post from Charlie above shows how to enable those.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361904#Comment_1361904

Yes, I tried all those. There are no options to view or turn on page numbers. There is a paged view where I can see the pages as printed, but there are no page numbers on them. Yet the index shows page numbers for the various topics.

Andrew Batishko

This book is an Ebook edition. That means it's automatically converted to the Logos format based on the Ebook file sent by the publisher. The file the publisher sent to Logos does not contain page number markings, and therefore the Logos book also does not contain page number markings.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361923#Comment_1361923

The book has an index which shows page numbers, so the book had page numbers at one point. If I were at Logos, I would ask the publisher to resend the book with the page numbers. The book is a scholarly book that will be used extensively by academics as they become familiar with it. Logos exists to make our work more productive. We need to be able to cite this book by page numbers and to be able to find things by page numbers. We can do neither right now. Thank you.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1361925#Comment_1361925

I hope this doesn’t come across rude, but I think you were educated on scholarly best practices a long time ago(as was I) and are being a little unwilling to adapt to the best practices of today.

It is not uncommon today to have scholarly books without page numbers. That is going to only become more and more common as e-books continue to be the norm. We can’t continue to do things as they were when we were younger, scholarship adapts over time.
This can be frustrating, but we have to always be willing to learn how to do our works in the most current best practices.

I will add that it is likely not as easy as calling up the author or publisher and asking for a different version. I’m sure the world of electronic resources is more complicated than that. I’m not in the field, so I can only assume.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362101#Comment_1362101

I am long out of the academic world. Master's degree 30 years ago. No academic or church employment since. MJ mentioned about the acceptance of footnotes without page numbers and what to cite instead. As for the book in question, it has an index with page numbers. So the publisher has a version of the book with page numbers. I told Logos I think they should ask for the version with them. If you don't ask, you most likely won't get it. If you ask, who knows?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362102#Comment_1362102

definitely doesn’t hurt to ask, and it may even happen, who knows.

My ultimate recommendation however is to forget about page numbers and cite the book without them, since that is fully accepted and widely acknowledged as current best practice.

Francis

@Larry Craig does the book show a reference box with a page number (make sure you are in the body of the book, not liminal pages)?

Some books "ebook edition" do not include page numbers, like this one:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362109#Comment_1362109

Francis

That probably means that this ebook edition is not paginated.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362126#Comment_1362126

The book has an index with page numbers. The book has page numbers. Why they were omitted in the copy sent to Logos, I don't know. Logos should ask for a copy with them

Francis

Are you saying that the Logos version has an index with page numbers? If so, are the page numbers clickable or they're just plain text?

In the latter case, the index may just be a reproduction of the index of the print edition (like a photocopy). However, a digital book needs to have page markers encoded if it is to have digital pages. Some digital books have pages (e.g., a PDF ebook), some don't (e.g., an ePub ebook). I suspect that your Logos ebook does not have pages. Logos customer service can confirm whether what's the case for this title specifically.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362128#Comment_1362128

they are hyperlinks. click on the link, it goes to the page

@Andrew Batishko said

This book is an Ebook edition. That means it's automatically converted to the Logos format based on the Ebook file sent by the publisher. The file the publisher sent to Logos does not contain page number markings, and therefore the Logos book also does not contain page number markings.

I don't know how more definitive we can get short of driving to Bellingham and examining the file sent to Logos in its raw form.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362127#Comment_1362127

they were omitted because that is how E-books work. E-books are better than PDFs in that you can alter the font type and size. The downside here, is you can’t have page numbers.
That is not really a problem though. Because the benefit of having an e-book file outweighs the benefit of having page numbers, I don’t think they are going to ask for a more restrictive file.

Why do you want page numbers so badly when you no longer need them to properly cite a book?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362145#Comment_1362145

Oh, I don't know. Every other of the 30,000 books in my library has them. I am reading a long list of books that I put in my favorites to keep track of them. It always puts the page number when I do that. Most times when I try to update the reading, it just puts a second post. Without page numbers, I won't know which is which. Sometimes I open one of these books, and I know that I have already read this section. It's nice to be able to note the page number when I save my reading. If I want to do a reading plan, it only allows me to do sections of unknown pages. The fact that this book has an index with page numbers tells me this book had them, and they must have got lost in the shuffle somewhere. Just ask the publisher if they could send a book with pages.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362156#Comment_1362156

That is interesting, I have never had an issue with the app or program not syncing to the right page. To me, that’s the issue I would be trying to fix.
As far as page numbers goes, I’m sorry for not being much help. I have been reading e-pub books for years, so have gotten used to not having page numbers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1362157#Comment_1362157

It's often trying to find the right page. That's why they have page numbers in the first place.

Aaron Hamilton

Oh, I don't know. Every other of the 30,000 books in my library has them.

@Larry Craig I expect if you were to specifically look through other ebooks in your library, you would find this book to be in good company. It is standard practice for ebooks to lose page numbers. Where page numbers are included on digital devices, they are often misleading and not reflective of the original resource due to differences in screen size and font.

The fact that this book has an index with page numbers tells me this book had them, and they must have got lost in the shuffle somewhere. Just ask the publisher if they could send a book with pages.

They did get lost in the shuffle while converting the resource into an ebook, as is often the case. Personally, I agree with you and am bothered by missing page numbers. I expect publishers could go the extra mile and include (optional) embedded real page numbers that match the original resource. However, while I wish this were the industry norm, it is not.

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/247328/shouldnt-footnotes-cite-the-page-the-book-the-quotation-is-from

My quick-and-dirty method for finding page numbers in Logos books (and copying them to a bibliography) is this:

First, I create a dummy Clippings file (the one I use is called 'Trash'). That way, if it gets full of trash, it's not a problem.

Next, in the book I'm citing, I create a clipping (for the Clippings 'Trash'). I then mouse over the lower right corner of the just-created clipping to see the bibliographic info. If the Logos book has a page number, it will be in the bibliographic info, which I then copy and insert into my document.

All done.