I am just not getting it

Teaching at its best!  Thanks, Don.

Rosie,

Keep in mind that I'm also a Greek newbie...so take this with a grain of salt...

Probably the John 3:16 / nominative wasn't the best example in which to flex the ol' Greek muscles...but there are times when there are some wild differences in translation and this stuff comes in handy...

I love it, myself....I just wish I could retain it better.

MJ - u lost me on that one.

Rosie Perera said:

True, but if we have the English translation (presumably done by experts who know this stuff about nominative and accusative), perhaps Sam was asking "what good does it do me, a Logos user, to know this stuff? How does this help me get more out of my Bible study in Logos than I could have by just reading the English Bible and the commentaries?"

If you can rely on the English text, then you don't need to learn any
Greek at all! The purpose of the videos is to slowly wean us off the English texts. By the end of the videos, I'd expect users to be able to translate* the Greek New Testament using just Logos and hovering over each word. Unlike 'true' Greek students, we won't be able to parse verbs (because we won't have learned the paradigms), and we won't have very much vocabulary at all. But Logos provides glosses (tiny definitions) and parsing information on hover. If we're to do this, we'll need to know what Logos means when it tells us ἠγάπησεν is an aorist, active, indicative third person singular verb meaning 'to love'.

Teaching us that, is a major point of these videos, so I'd pay particular attention to things like case, form, mood, etc. I'd also keep a copy of the Pocket Dictionary for the Study of New Testament Greek to hand. [:)]

* Before anyone points it out, I'm quite aware that languages are complex beasts. Even if (e.g.) you know that a noun is dative, you won't necessarily know whether it's a dative of advantage, of agency, of association, of cause, of possession or of place. But that's not the point. The videos are designed to significantly improve our ability, not to turn all of us into world-beaters.

Mark Barnes said:

If you're going to get the most out of the videos, you're going to need to go through them fairly slowly. A lot of people are rushing through them once, then going back and working their way through them more carefully. That seems wise to me. It's a shame that exercises aren't included in the videos. But at the end of a video, I'd spend some time (I'm talking hours not minutes) working through some examples of my own, to help everything sink in. Don't view this as a waste of time - not only will you be remembering what you've learned, but you'll actually be handling the Bible text. Give yourself a passage that you're going to be teaching on soon, or one that has struck you recently, and apply that chapters lessons to that text. Any time you're not clear about something, replay the video.

Fully agree, I'd also recommend...(this is slightly weird) to say things out loud to yourself, repeat them back, reinforce them...

When he mentions a particular instance of certain grammatical form....go looking for others....etc.

It's a long road ESPECIALLY doing it on your own....but it's amazingly rewarding no matter what level you are at...as Mounce says: "At our stage we aren't likely to be able to challenge Daniel Wallace...but we CAN understand technical commentaries enough to follow the arguments and make better decisions"

SAM WEST said:

erry I think I could make it if Dr Heiser and Johnny had given me a more down to earth examples.

SAM WEST said:

he quality of Johnny’s videos are not much at least on my computer.

Terry Poperszky said:

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised that the videos will encourage some to go on and  take traditional language courses.

They certainly have. Watching these has only heightened my desire to learn Koine Greek and Hebrew!

That's my goal after retirement (if it ever gets here) to attend some sort of language learning institution.

MJ. Smith said:

SAM WEST said:

I very thick headed

I take this to mean either you are not very adept at learning languages or that you are insecure in your ability to learn languages. I'm absolutely impossible when it comes to spoken languages - the 2nd student in 35 years of teaching that a French prof gave up on. Luckily, I'm good at grammar and syntax so dead languages are my forte - the deader the better. If it's living I treat it as dead.

However, each small bit you do pick up will help you understand commentaries and notes. You don't need to pick it all up the first time through. People learn in different ways - sometimes you need to be "further along" when something taught earlier finally makes sense. Sometimes you need to see example after example before you say "oh, I understand". Don't expect more of yourself than your style of learning permits and value what you do get.

Footnote: I was one of the few students who passed all parts of the language proficiency exam on my first try, which cause the professor to tell me she couldn't figure out how I had managed to do it. The secret: when I didn't understand the whole sentence, I took the parts I did know and made my best guess. The more talented students only answered when they knew the answer. Moral: the bits you do understand are helpful.

I bring you a quotation straight out of one of the resources recently added by Logos: "131 Christians Everyone Should Know".  G.K.Chesterton provided a relevant  quotation: “Anything worth doing is worth doing badly.”

I refer to this as the antidote for perfectionism.  One must subscribe to it fully order to learn a language.  If you wait until you do it well, you will not get out of the gate!

Mark Barnes said:

If you can rely on the English text, then you don't need to learn any
Greek at all! The purpose of the videos is to slowly wean us off the English texts.

My 2 years of Greek in college were about 30 years ago, so I am brushing the rust off my few remaining neurons and getting reacquainted with the language. The beauty of the Logos software is that it allows you to instantly access resources that open the original languages to you, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE STUDYING PRIMARILY IN ENGLISH. I think it is important to listen to Dr Heiser's advice as to the importance of looking at the text itself, without referring first to the commentaries or lexicons.  There is no substitute for prayerfully studying a text and giving the Holy Spirit the opportunity to reveal the depths of the passage's meaning to you.  If you can read English very rapidly, it is easy to skim over a passage rather than reading deeply. This is one of the most important lessons that I learned about myself when I began studying Greek, and that I needed to slow down, and see what I was missing.  Having to work through a passage in Greek forced me to do that.

I find that using the Bible Word Study  tool (right-click on an english word in the NT, select lemma, then Bible Word Study, and then select the Septuagint translation) will allow the user to get a feel for the background of a greek word in the NT by looking at all of the OT usages of the word by reading the passages IN ENGLISH with the word highlighted!  You will find some very interesting uses of the words, and then use your bible comparison tool to compare translations to see how various translators interpreted the word in question.  Doing this alone will cause you to thank God that the Logos software allows you to have access to that information. 

So, I would suggest following a course like this:  1) do your word studies.  2) Use your bible comparison tool to look at how  translators have interpreted the word in various OT and NT contexts. (this will give you LOTS of food for thought!)  3) Continue to apply your growing knowledge of Greek.  4) THINK and PRAY about what you are seeing, and God will help you understand things that you wouldn't even be aware of if you hadn't tried to use the original languages.

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