How to Prioritize?
Ok, I have to admit that the whole prioritize resources thing has my head spinning. Could anyone give me a quick primer on how to prioritize efficiently? I have Scholars (485 resources). What types of things do I prioritize? How would I go about setting that up? I'm not looking for which individual resources to prioritize (e.g. ESV over NASB), but rather some advice on the method and means of prioritizing.
I'm really at sea on this, and would appreciate some simplified explanations. Thanks!
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA, Katy, TX
Windows 10 64-bit; Logos 7.1 SR-2 (Reformed Platinum)
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I'm really at sea on this, and would appreciate some simplified explanations. Thanks!
Me too. I'd much rather prioritize by category, than just prioritize - uh - stuff.
Here's what I did. I prioritized my English Bibles first, starting with my preferred Bible and then put in about a half-dozen or so other English Bibles and put them in the order I wanted to see them when using the arrow keys.
Then, under those, I put in my original language preferences.
Then under those I did my lexicons (just a couple here for me - for both Hebrew & Greek).
Finally, because I wanted to group these, I put several Study Bibles (but that didn't seem to have any effect when scrolling through them with the right/left arrow keys) -- maybe collections would work better for this, but I haven't played much with them either.
I haven't begun to prioritize my commentaries, mostly because it would be a lot of work and it's hard to know how this prioritization function will work, and I'm not sure how to group them into categories (exegetical, homiletical, study-Bible, etc.). My experiment with the study Bibles showed it's not working as I had hoped. And then there was the Beta update that erased all my prioritizations.
I'm not going to put a lot of work into something that may be erased, and which I don't fully understand. But the first few prioritizations did help with the function of the program.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Here's my thoughts on my list in the order that they are on my list:
Bibles - English and Orig lang are intermixed (top five will show in menu and in passage comparison window). I have NA27 listed third between my English ones so I can see in on the right-click menu.
English dictionary resources in order - I have everything I use in this list, because when it's not in the list it seems to take a lot longer to find an link. These are before everything else in the list (except Bibles) since I don't want an English word to keylink to a greek lexicon or some other resource that has an English index.
Greek lexicons in order
Hebrew lexicons in order
Josephus works in order (English then Greek) - This was necessary to have the English show up in popups and in keylinks. Before I did this the Josephus Greek Apparatus was getting all the links (because it was first alphabetically), and that wasn't useful.
Commentaries in order of perference - Commentary Series and individual commentaries (not part of a series) are intermixed in the order I want to see them in the passage guide.I have 76 entries in my Preferred list. Sometimes it's hard to find things.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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So far none of this is intuitive to me and it seems less painful to just "poke myself in the eye". How can anyone think this is easy to use? And at least, I know that my being overwhelmed is not related to using v. 3 and comparing it with v. 4. It is the lack of any "help" within the program. Hopefully, there will be a Quick Start guide to set up v. 4 related to installation and indexing for new users. Then, some kind of video that explains things like prioritization and searching. I really am trying to be positive.[^o)]I'm really at sea on this, and would appreciate some simplified explanations. Thanks!
I haven't begun to prioritize my commentaries, mostly because it would be a lot of work and it's hard to know how this prioritization function will work, and I'm not sure how to group them into categories (exegetical, homiletical, study-Bible, etc.). My experiment with the study Bibles showed it's not working as I had hoped. And then there was the Beta update that erased all my prioritizations.
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So far none of this is intuitive to me and it seems less painful to just "poke myself in the eye".
Thats exactly why George will be getting Lasik soon.
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I'm really at sea on this, and would appreciate some simplified explanations. Thanks!
I go along with the above suggestions and would add:
- pick at least 5 of each type because the various context menus list five, and you might find some strange ones making up the five! eg. 5 English bibles, 5 English dictionaries (whether bible oriented or pure English language), 5 Greek bibles, 5 Greek lexicons
- beware that some resources cater for multiple data types and you might put Strong's Lexicon with Greek/Hebrew lexicons thinking it will pick up Strong's numbers. But one of my English resources (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary) was higher in the list and it also handles Strong's numbers! If you want it to stay with English words only then right click the resource in the list, choose "Advanced Limits" and pick English from the first drop-down.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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This is the key. It's what the emphasis is on all the MP Seminars. If you customize and put it into the order that you prefer of the get go, the sea won't seem so small.
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I'm really at sea on this, and would appreciate some simplified explanations. Thanks!
I go along with the above suggestions and would add:
- pick at least 5 of each type because the various context menus list five, and you might find some strange ones making up the five! eg. 5 English bibles, 5 English dictionaries (whether bible oriented or pure English language), 5 Greek bibles, 5 Greek lexicons
- beware that some resources cater for multiple data types and you might put Strong's Lexicon with Greek/Hebrew lexicons thinking it will pick up Strong's numbers. But one of my English resources (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary) was higher in the list and it also handles Strong's numbers! If you want it to stay with English words only then right click the resource in the list, choose "Advanced Limits" and pick English from the first drop-down.
Ok, here is my problem. I'm really trying to make this work, but I cannot figure out how to see the "universe" of types in order to choose which should be best priority. I have 465 resources (Scholars OC). How can I find (easily) all the English Bibles, English dictionaries, Commentaries, Greek lexicons, etc? I know I could just search for "Bible" and then drag a few over, but isn't there a better way to see which resources are that "data type" (I'm not even sure that is a correct reference) so that I can really prioritize them?
Any help would be appreciated, because I'm not likely to spend a couple of hours "guessing" at which resources go with which.
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA, Katy, TX
Windows 10 64-bit; Logos 7.1 SR-2 (Reformed Platinum)0 -
I would recommend using tags.
type:Bible lang:English
type:Dictionary lang:English
type:Dictionary lang:Greek
type:Commentary
etc.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Ok, here is my problem. I'm really trying to make this work, but I cannot figure out how to see the "universe" of types in order to choose which should be best priority. I have 465 resources (Scholars OC). How can I find (easily) all the English Bibles, English dictionaries, Commentaries, Greek lexicons, etc? I know I could just search for "Bible" and then drag a few over, but isn't there a better way to see which resources are that "data type" (I'm not even sure that is a correct reference) so that I can really prioritize them?
My Prioritize list consists of the following from top down (type the suggested command in Library Find bar to see books of that category):-
5 English bibles eg. type:bible lang:English
5 English dictionaries eg. title:bible dictionary (I have 4 Bible Dictionaries with Merriam-Webster last).
5 Greek lexicons eg. type:dictionary title:greek
5 Hebrew-Aramaic Lexicons eg. type:dictionary title:hebrew
5 Greek Bibles eg. type:bible lang:Greek
5 Hebrew Bibles eg. type:bible lang:Hebrew
5 commentaries eg. type:commentary
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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File this under "Probably Already Suggested" ...
Seems like the Prioritize function is confusing to many, especially at the beginning. And yet, it is very important. Why not create a Setup Wizard that can be found under Tools and will run automatically after the initial install/index in order to guide everyone?
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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File this under "Probably Already Suggested" ...
It has, but it needs repeating!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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My husband=completely new user, tried v. 4, never having used Logos, but other Bible software. He never reached a point where he saw the word prioritize but he hit a wall looking at compare Bible versions and doing some other things where he needed to have prioritized first. What I don't understand is why experienced users and software developers don't listen to new users and make it easier for them to use the software their FIRST time-first impressions do matter.Seems like the Prioritize function is confusing to many, especially at the beginning. And yet, it is very important. Why not create a Setup Wizard that can be found under Tools and will run automatically after the initial install/index in order to guide everyone?
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Why not create a Setup Wizard that can be found under Tools and will run automatically after the initial install/index in order to guide everyone?
Our fear is that this would be even scarier. The user would be asked to pick not only favorite Bibles, but favorite lexicons, possibly Apostolic Fathers editions, Josephus, commentaries, etc. Many users don't even know more than a few Bible versions when they start.
(We do effectively have this wizard for just your favorite Bible -- it's at the top of the Home Page.)
We think an even better idea is to have a very well-chosen default list of priorities, so things like Text Comparison and Power Lookup work intelligently right out of the box. Unfortunately, that's turning out to be the last thing to get into the betas, not the first, so you haven't had a chance to see it with what we hope is the beset out of the box experience.
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We think an even better idea is to have a very well-chosen default list of priorities
I'm game to try this out. However translations are a picky thing to many people. For that matter commentaries would be the same way. Once we have your preset we need to be able to easily move things around. In my opinion the priority box needs to be color coded so that we can visually distinguish the different types of resources and group them accordingly. what I wouldn't mind is a sort option in the priority field that would sort it by type of resource in alphabetical order. then I would just dump the items I care about into the priority box in no particular order, sort the list, and move things around within their respective boxes.
However you get all the service calls so you know what is to complicated for your users more then I do. To me, color coding is an all around smart move, though.
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I have 76 entries in my Preferred list. Sometimes it's hard to find things.
I'm starting to think that I have too many Preferred resources.
I was having trouble with getting Westminster Confession of Faith references to pop-up when I moused over them in a text. The WCF was not in Preferred list, and it was taking upwards of 30 SECONDS to get the pop-up to show, and the disk was spinning while waiting, so I could tell it was searching for it. Then I added it to the end of my preferred resources list, and it still took 5 seconds to pop-up. So I moved it up to 6th place in the list (after my bibles), and now it's nearly instantaneous to pop-up.
This seems to be an side-effect of not having separate priority lists for each data-type. None of my other preferred resources have WCF data, but the WCF pop-up was obviously slowed down by having the other resources higher in priority than the WCF. And why does it take so long to find things that aren't on the list?
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Our fear is that this would be even scarier ... Many users don't even know more than a few Bible versions when they start.
Yes, of course. I hadn't thought about that but you are absolutely correct.
But given the justifiable apprehension regarding the newbie, for example, who is just sticking his or her toe into the biblical waters for the first time, I still wonder if it wouldn't be advisable to follow the Adobe Acrobat v. Reader or, Photoshop v. Elements or, AutoCad v. AutoCad Lite models? IOW, have a stripped down, locked down version of L4 that really amounts to not much more than a reader with a few basic commentaries and maybe a very basic PG and BWS? No languauges, no syntax, no morph, etc. It would afford the opportunity to get started without being overwhelmed from the get go. Then, when they are ready to move on up, they can install the full blown L4. That way, the software itself will be less likely to be the source of any discouragement to deeper study.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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I agree as it stands L4 is not an application for someone new to bible study... it will scare the pants off them the way it is at the moment..rather than having separate applicaitons though I would much rather see a simple interface and advanced interface (which would be what L4 as it currently stands) that the user could turn on/off as desired. simple interface would give the L3 style of home page and when you enter a passage to start a study it would simply open passage guide, a bible, and highest ranked commentary rather than adding things like exegetical guide, information window etcs which they would have no idea about or what to do with them.
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We think an even better idea is to have a very well-chosen default list of priorities, so things like Text Comparison and Power Lookup work intelligently right out of the box. Unfortunately, that's turning out to be the last thing to get into the betas, not the first, so you haven't had a chance to see it with what we hope is the beset out of the box experience.
I would prefer to see Prioritize completely divorced from being a (confusing) adjunct to Library e.g. make it a Tool that appears in a floating window with plenty of space to manipulate/add entries. Populate the list initially with your well chosen defaults and provide a simple, effective way to move them around and/or add resources according to their category (rather than leaving someone to guess how to restrict Library to commentaries, Greek lexicons, Greek bibles, etc). Philip has some good suggestions for this area.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I would prefer to see Prioritize completely divorced from being a (confusing) adjunct to Library e.g. make it a Tool
I agree, this would be preferred. However if they stay...they need color :-)
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I cannot change any of the advanced options under Prioritize. Tried to change a commentary to type: commentary but it goes back to blank after I entered that. Some already have types entered like "Bible" or "English" but the ones without a tyupe cannot be changed, it seems.
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Why not create a Setup Wizard that can be found under Tools and will run automatically after the initial install/index in order to guide everyone?
Our fear is that this would be even scarier. The user would be asked to pick not only favorite Bibles, but favorite lexicons, possibly Apostolic Fathers editions, Josephus, commentaries, etc. Many users don't even know more than a few Bible versions when they start.
(We do effectively have this wizard for just your favorite Bible -- it's at the top of the Home Page.)
We think an even better idea is to have a very well-chosen default list of priorities, so things like Text Comparison and Power Lookup work intelligently right out of the box. Unfortunately, that's turning out to be the last thing to get into the betas, not the first, so you haven't had a chance to see it with what we hope is the beset out of the box experience.
Bob,
I'm willing to wait for the changes, but you should know that the Prioritize function is REALLY confusing, and hard to implement as is. In fact, it alone is making it hard for me utilize other functions of L4. I think that the types of resources that can be prioritized should be easily separated and visible (color is a good idea). I don't think you can expect anyone to spend and hour or two trying to see th universe of settings so that he can figure out how to make settings so that he can properly use the program. Many will just give up.
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA, Katy, TX
Windows 10 64-bit; Logos 7.1 SR-2 (Reformed Platinum)0 -
I cannot change any of the advanced options under Prioritize. Tried to change a commentary to type: commentary but it goes back to blank after I entered that. Some already have types entered like "Bible" or "English" but the ones without a tyupe cannot be changed, it seems.
Pieter,
What you saw were the data types that resource supports.
A Bible Commentary can be found with type:commentary in Library and it will continue to function that way when you place it in the Prioritize list. But it needs the "Bible" data type (a confusion of types!).
The only time you need to use Advanced options is when a resource starts to function in a way you don't expect eg. it becomes a source for English word definitions because it supports both "Bible" and "English" data types. If you want it only to function as a commentary then change the data type to "Bible"!
HTH!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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We still believe that once we ship a good set of default priorities, it will not be necessary to spend an hour getting the app set up. In fact, we're hoping that most users will be happy with the behavior out of the box. Our feedback stats show us that very few people changed their KeyLink priorities in v3, so they all used the (bad) defaults there. We're hoping they'll be even happier with the v4 defaults, and have even less need to do complicated prioritzations.
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We still believe that once we ship a good set of default priorities, it will not be necessary to spend an hour getting the app set up.
I believe you can ship a reasonable set of defaults because of the lessons learned in beta testing. I also believe you need to divorce Prioritize from Library as I suggested earlier in this thread, otherwise you imply it is an imperative part of organising their Library!
The defaults that came with the Beta's were terrible and I think there was a lack of understanding about the use of Advanced Options to restrict the data type usage of a particular resource. These facilities should be retained for advanced users and there should not be any programmed/coded restraints as I see hinted in the Beta Release Notes:-
Known Issues
General
- Many resources have not yet been rebuilt to work optimally with Logos 4. Some problems this can cause are:
- Non-English Bibles & Commentaries not being navigable by Bible reference.
- English KeyLinks going to Greek or Hebrew lexicons.
The way to stop English keylinks going to a Greek/Hebrew lexicon is to use the Advanced Options of Prioritize so that the resource only accepts Greek or Hebrew data types, and the English keylink will pass to a more appropriate source.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 - Many resources have not yet been rebuilt to work optimally with Logos 4. Some problems this can cause are:
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"otherwise you imply it is an imperative part of organising their Library!"
(Thanks David)
That was EXACTLY the impression I was given!
- With the added frustration of the "deliberate" lack of "Help" material to see if we could slog through new features. "Slogging" through it is fine (and expected) in betas, BUT it would have saved a lot of time and frustration to know that this was one area where we were really NOT supposed to be "slogging."
Regarding keylinking: With the help of the "Proctor" materials, I have learned how to "keylink' like the best of them, but I did not really find that the Logos website materials on keylinking were that helpful. Maybe some of these folks made an initial attempt and then just gave up? .
Steve
Regards, SteveF
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I also believe you need to divorce Prioritize from Library
We started with it this way. We just found it difficult to find and drag things from Library to the prioritization pane when they weren't in the same window. We do like Library defaulting to a popup, but it's hard to drag multiple books from a popup to a pane that might be beneath the popup. Even if it's not, the popup kept closing, etc.
The way to stop English keylinks going to a Greek/Hebrew lexicon is to use the Advanced Options of Prioritize
Actually, the best way is to get all the incorrect English headwords out of the Greek and Hebrew lexicons, which is what we're doing. So in the shipping product you should not need to do this at all.
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I also believe you need to divorce Prioritize from Library
We started with it this way. We just found it difficult to find and drag things from Library to the prioritization pane when they weren't in the same window.
It could be done in a way similar to Collections ...
The way to stop English keylinks going to a Greek/Hebrew lexicon is to use the Advanced Options of Prioritize
Actually, the best way is to get all the incorrect English headwords out of the Greek and Hebrew lexicons, which is what we're doing. So in the shipping product you should not need to do this at all.
Does "incorrect" apply to ALL English headwords or some? If it means not Indexing English headwords to which lexicons does it apply eg. Strong's, Vine's (VONT), Louw-Nida (English Index), BDB?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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We still believe that once we ship a good set of default priorities, it will not be necessary to spend an hour getting the app set up. In fact, we're hoping that most users will be happy with the behavior out of the box. Our feedback stats show us that very few people changed their KeyLink priorities in v3, so they all used the (bad) defaults there. We're hoping they'll be even happier with the v4 defaults, and have even less need to do complicated prioritzations.
Bob,
Will those defaults be visible? In other words, will I be able to see in which order the "box default" has prioritized resources? That would be a big help, and would let me see not only what, but to have an idea of the "why" behind them. It would also be much easier to "tweak" the defaults (e.g. remove one default priority resource, add one new one) than to start from scratch to override the defaults.
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA, Katy, TX
Windows 10 64-bit; Logos 7.1 SR-2 (Reformed Platinum)0
