What Happens When L4 is Released?
Does anyone know what the plan is when L4 is released? Will it simply overwrite the latest beta and preserve everything that has been customized or created by the beta testers? Or, will we need to uninstall the beta and/or lose all user generated data/customizations?
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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JRS said:
Does anyone know what the plan is when L4 is released? Will it simply overwrite the latest beta and preserve everything that has been customized or created by the beta testers? Or, will we need to uninstall the beta and/or lose all user generated data/customizations?
It will be an upgrade from the latest beta just as Beta 5 was an upgrade from Beta 4. You will not need to uninstall.
At the moment, we do not foresee any change that would require deleting data you've created during the beta period.
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It shouldn't be much different from any of the beta installs -- it's just one more release. We'll try to not destroy any of your data, though if there's a significant format change before release (unlikely) we may have to, as we already did for a couple of things earlier in the cycle.
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Are you allowed to disclose the targeted release date for v4?
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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Jacob Hantla said:
Are you allowed to disclose the targeted release date for v4?
Yes, but then I'd have to...
No, I can't disclose it yet, but we will give advance notice here on the forums so that you can tell me it is too soon, and then I can explain why we need to release it anyway and promise that we'll add those important missing features ASAP, and then, I hope!, you'll all be ready on release day to twitter, blog, and generally say nice things to encourage a massive number of upgrades and new purchases, thereby funding our ongoing development and the near-term release of the things that should have made it into the first release but didn't.
Are you with me? :-)
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Bob Pritchett said:
No, I can't disclose it yet, but we will give advance notice here on the forums so that...you'll all be ready on release day to twitter, blog, and generally say nice things
Okay, you can't tell us the date for the release of L4. Can you tell us how soon we should be ready to "say nice things?"
Seriously, I've been using L4 exclusively all this week and am coming to like it more and more. So I'm probably ready, already.
BTW, did you notice the new B5 tester who signed on today? Pretty lost at first. It will be interesting to see what happens after a day or two. It seems the transition will be hardest for L3 "power users."
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Bob Pritchett said:Jacob Hantla said:
Are you allowed to disclose the targeted release date for v4?
Are you with me? :-)
I stand ready, willing and able...
Bob Pritchett said:No, I can't disclose it yet,
Then could you at least tell us how many Beta's you expect to release and if you expect them to come out weekly? [:D]
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What happens to those of us who are Beta testing under a different name than our regular LDLS Customer ID?
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Are you with me? :-)
Absolutely. Wishing I could be counting down the days ;-)
It takes all the self-control that is within me not to blurt out all the cool new features of v4 when my friends are sitting their in ignorant bliss using v3.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Alex Scott said:
What happens to those of us who are Beta testing under a different name than our regular LDLS Customer ID?
Hopefully nothing. We're moving towards identifying you using the email address and password that you use to sign in to Logos.com. For existing users who originally activated Libronix DLS with a different email address, you can set up a link between your two accounts by editing the "Libronix Customer ID" listed at https://www.logos.com/MyAccount. If you continue to run LDLS3 and Logos 4 side-by-side, that link will keep your accounts in sync.
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Thanks for the responses Bob and Bradley.
I have been purposely not doing much more than experimenting here and there with the betas rather than doing some heavy tagging, note taking, etc. for fear that it might all be lost. But I have to agree with other posts in the forum that this has been a remarkably clean beta! And, I think Logos has manifested a very high degree of Golden Rule attitude in the development of the new L4 and the way you folks support and listen to your customers. Very refreshing!
So refreshing that I will remain a dedicated Logos customer (just don't sell out to Harper Collins [;)]). In fact, I am even willing to accept 'the cloud' for this one application just so it can help you get your tech support costs down and that money can be used elswhere.
May the Lord continue to bless your efforts!
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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Bob Pritchett said:
No, I can't disclose it yet
I think it will be on my 50th birthday but I will don't disclose the date to anybody [;)]
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EbbeAndréasson said:Bob Pritchett said:
No, I can't disclose it yet
I think it will be on my 50th birthday but I will don't disclose the date to anybody
I'm hoping it comes before my 39th birthday. [H]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bradley Grainger said:Alex Scott said:
What happens to those of us who are Beta testing under a different name than our regular LDLS Customer ID?
Hopefully nothing. We're moving towards identifying you using the email address and password that you use to sign in to Logos.com. For existing users who originally activated Libronix DLS with a different email address, you can set up a link between your two accounts by editing the "Libronix Customer ID" listed at https://www.logos.com/MyAccount. If you continue to run LDLS3 and Logos 4 side-by-side, that link will keep your accounts in sync.
I was under the impression that if I edited my Libronix Customer ID I would mess up my ID on the server and I could possibly lose my license. Are you telling me it is okay to change my libronix customer ID to match my current email address? Will it affect L3 as my current installation has my old email address as my Libronix Customer ID?
Mac Pro 13 Retina 8GB, 256 flash
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Kenneth Morris said:
I was under the impression that if I edited my Libronix Customer ID I would mess up my ID on the server and I could possibly lose my license. Are you telling me it is okay to change my libronix customer ID to match my current email address? Will it affect L3 as my current installation has my old email address as my Libronix Customer ID?
I took it to mean that you should transfer your current (Logos3) ID to the new (Logos4) account eg. my ID is already different to my login credentials because I can change my Email address!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Well, my husband tried v. 4 on Saturday, never having used v. 3 or other Logos versions, but has used other Bible software and found them easy to use. In short, he found it diffcult to learn, looked for "help" within the program-there is none yet-, said he didn't have the time it would take to learn to use it. Yes, he could type in a Bible passage and hit "go". But the next screen he got with 6 panes on it was overwhelming to him at first. I could hear him say "how did that happen?" when he moved the cursor and "how do I get back to where I was?" and "why aren't more Bible versions showing up in this window?" . He did like the appearance-soft colors- and thought it was cool that when he moused over English words, he had a window with Greek look ups. At first, he liked the pop ups with info for KJV, etc. but then after he saw it a few times said "that would be very annoying, if it continues; how do I turn it off?" He is used to software like MS Office 2007 and is a power user of all of that. He thinks that if you have a position where you are in full time Christian work, you would have the time and motivation to learn v. 4. But for him, he just could not sit and watch videos or attend a seminar. No time; his job requires a lot of time because he has a lot of responsibilities. And really needs a interface with more structure that "helps" him rather than having so many choices confronting him that he was confused.Richard DeRuiter said:Bob Pritchett said:No, I can't disclose it yet, but we will give advance notice here on the forums so that...you'll all be ready on release day to twitter, blog, and generally say nice things
BTW, did you notice the new B5 tester who signed on today? Pretty lost at first. It will be interesting to see what happens after a day or two. It seems the transition will be hardest for L3 "power users."
And I made sure he didn't have to go through an indexing round or two. IOW, the program was up and running well. So, I don't think it is just hard for v.3 power users.
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JoanKorte said:
And I made sure he didn't have to go through an indexing round or two. IOW, the program was up and running well. So, I don't think it is just hard for v.3 power users.
Yes, that would have seen him off for good! Each user is conditioned by their experiences with other programs and would really feel at home if a new application fell into that same class of "intuitive" look and feel. I don't feel I have arrived at that point - still can't predict where a tab will open with multiple panes available. So I feel not much better off than v3 in that regard (I'm sure to get a response to that!). The important point is that the "new" user will not be as receptive as Bob had hoped.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave,
Thanks for your comment. Yes, if he had to endure indexing, he would never have kept the program. He expects that from a high end, expensive piece of software realistic startup guides and in program help should come with it that removes any confusion from the new user. He doesn't think he should have to pay more for videos or training. (Other Bible software does come with training included; it is not asking too much to provide it with Logos.)
I guess I realize that what I mean by intuitive is really "learnable". I should be able to open up v. 4 and have a successful first experience in using it. Yes, challenging but also rewarding in the sense that if I have a question as a new user as to "how to prioritize?", then the program should explain why it is necessary to prioritize and how to do it.
Quite frankly, I am coming to the conclusion that the reason the majority of beta testers do not find v. 4 difficult to use is because they truly have brilliant minds. And I am not in that group; v. 4 is difficult to use for me and it is not because I have used v. 3. It is because I do not have a lot of time to do things by trial and error and learn from my errors. I would prefer to read something on "why prioritize and how to" and something on "how resources are organized, e.g. subsets to search on". And when I first get the software, not wait months until videos are posted or have to pay a lot of money for training.
I wonder how many other people are out there who have never participated in the forums/newsgroups that have purchased a package from Logos and never made another purchase of resources because they found the program difficult to use and hard to learn. I am just determined and stubborn enough to have hung around because I do love the software. Thanks for listening[A]
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JoanKorte said:
Quite frankly, I am coming to the conclusion that the reason the majority of beta testers do not find v. 4 difficult to use is because they truly have brilliant minds. And I am not in that group; v. 4 is difficult to use for me and it is not because I have used v. 3. It is because I do not have a lot of time to do things by trial and error and learn from my errors. I would prefer to read something on "why prioritize and how to" and something on "how resources are organized, e.g. subsets to search on". And when I first get the software, not wait months until videos are posted or have to pay a lot of money for training.
I won't lay claim to being the sharpest knife in the drawer, but on the other hand I don't intend to sell myself short either -- I am a tad smarter than the average bear. Having said that, I don't find L4 particularly intuitive. There have been a number of instances when I have raised a problem only to be told that I can do that. I too don't have time to be poking around at great length to find how to perform an operation in L4. I know what I want to accomplish and would appreciate a succinct but clear explanation of the steps involved to accomplish it. As to videos, does Logos sell videos? I know there is a link in the Help section to viewing online tutorials, but I didn't think that was operational at this point (my mistake?).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George,
Maybe not a knife, but you are one of the shiniest apples in the bunch.[:D]
Morris Proctor, who is a great instructor, puts out dvd's and other materials for sale.
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JoanKorte said:
George,
Maybe not a knife, but you are one of the shiniest apples in the bunch.
Morris Proctor, who is a great instructor, puts out dvd's and other materials for sale.
Thank you for your kind words. I'll try to not allow my head to become bigger than it already is.
Of course, I knew about MP's training materials, but I thought you were speaking of something Logos published separately.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I also think that there is a basic underlying issue that needs to be addressed.
Photoshop is a great example. I've been using Photoshop since the 3.0 days and the first time I opened it I sat there and said....now what??
I was very motivated however and I dug and dug and learned. My mother, or even my wife or brother in law will not do that. for them; "Picasa" with it's "do you want to remove red-eye now?" sort of "big button/low flexibility" interface is fine for them.
It's hard for a piece of software to be both Photoshop with it's power, and Picasa with it's dumbed down "click here to take out red eye" interface...that's an issue that's tough to resolve.
The only way that I see out of it is to make it stupid upon launch.
click here to study a passage
click here to study a word
click here to study a topic;
click here to open your favorite bible
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert,
I think something like a Quick Start guide even in print, laying the foundation of just how to set up v. 4 and then how to begin to use it...maybe Logos has this planned. What I think I am referring to doesn't have to be part of the main software but a separate section.
If the Help section was up and running, perhaps my words now would be needless.
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Robert Pavich said:
I also think that there is a basic underlying issue that needs to be addressed.
Photoshop is a great example. I've been using Photoshop since the 3.0 days and the first time I opened it I sat there and said....now what??
I was very motivated however and I dug and dug and learned. My mother, or even my wife or brother in law will not do that. for them; "Picasa" with it's "do you want to remove red-eye now?" sort of "big button/low flexibility" interface is fine for them.
It's hard for a piece of software to be both Photoshop with it's power, and Picasa with it's dumbed down "click here to take out red eye" interface...that's an issue that's tough to resolve.
The only way that I see out of it is to make it stupid upon launch.
click here to study a passage
click here to study a word
click here to study a topic;
click here to open your favorite bibleDoes it also have a button labelled "Click here to throw this in the trash"?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Robert Pavich said:
The only way that I see out of it is to make it stupid upon launch.
click here to study a passage
click here to study a word
click here to study a topic;
click here to open your favorite bible
You mean like V.3 Home page. Seriously, V.3 home page was the selling point when introducing newbies to Logos. After getting them use to how the home page works, they were prepared to explore more. The complain has always been, it is difficult to use bible software. Getting newbies to see how easy V.3 home page was to use, quickly caught their attention and gently introduced them to the other amazing feature of Logos.
I am not sure how this will work out in V.4, i wish we had a customised home page for newbies after the like of V.3. That said. V4 is amazing and it is the way forward. Now that i am getting the hang of it, it is really that good.
Ted.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Joe Miller said:
I think the video tutorials should be included in L4 not as a separate purchase.JoanKorte said:Morris Proctor, who is a great instructor, puts out dvd's and other materials for sale.
Since L4 is a new product, I imagine the easiest way to do this would either be to license new videos from MP or to bring him onboard as a regular Logos employee. Of couse, it would be possible for Logos to begin to issue their own materials in competition with MP, but I'm not sure Logos would want to do that.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ok....test at lunch time here at work.
I have a friend who is a bit of a newbie to bible study. He's smart; has a degree in mechanical engineering, is pretty software savvy also.
He knows i have bible study software and all he does is read and look at a commentary once in a while.
I sat him down in front of v4's home page and just said: "now what do you think you should do?"
He said.."Well it says type a passage here so I will"
When he typed the passage, this is what he got...it was overwhelming. His words...not mine:
"What in the heck am I looking at?"
then I launched v3 and asked him what he thought. He said that the interface is more what he would be comfortable with; Passage guide, Bible and commentary. When he clicked bible and commentary and that came up he said "yes! that's what I'd expect to happen!"
Note: this screen shot is a simulation from Photoshop because the bible that came up was the wrong one and the commentary was "not located" because of a resource path issue. he understood when I explained to him that his favorite bible and commentary would come up after he pushed the button.
This is just a reinforcement that there needs to be a severe training wheel mode that is the default for newbies....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Logos does put out video tutorials on their website and they are very helpful but the issue is timing. If I recall correctly, it took them months before they had really gotten them up and running. There are some for beginners, intermediate and more advanced.George Somsel said:Joe Miller said:
I think the video tutorials should be included in L4 not as a separate purchase.JoanKorte said:Morris Proctor, who is a great instructor, puts out dvd's and other materials for sale.
Since L4 is a new product, I imagine the easiest way to do this would either be to license new videos from MP or to bring him onboard as a regular Logos employee. Of couse, it would be possible for Logos to begin to issue their own materials in competition with MP, but I'm not sure Logos would want to do that.
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Yes, exactly. That was going to be my next step with my husband-show him version 3 and not because I am pushing version three but because I am trying to isolate just what it is the new user needs to know in order from him/her to have a feeling of both challenge and success when they first use the program. As experienced users, we already are sold on Logos Bible software because we see results and have those moments of "serendipitous discovery".Robert Pavich said:Ok....test at lunch time here at work.
I have a friend who is a bit of a newbie to bible study. He's smart; has a degree in mechanical engineering, is pretty software savvy also.
He knows i have bible study software and all he does is read and look at a commentary once in a while.
I sat him down in front of v4's home page and just said: "now what do you think you should do?"
And what Ted said about the home page, was what sold me on Logos software. It is a winning, engaging display and both organizes and summarizes what is now at the fingertips of the user. A whole new world opens up. And if you love to study the Bible, how can you not love Logos Bible software?
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