Thank you Logos for listening!

And thanks for the Last Updated field in the Library display.

Peter

Wow, missed that in the release notes. That might just change how I do things a bit....

Yes it is great.

As mentioned in the release notes, Headword resources are not faster. But could someone check to see if their collections are not working with Dictionaries, etc (Headword resources) when using Parallel resource button. Thanks.

EDIT: false alarm. Something broke in my rules for my dictionary collection.

This is amazing. Time for some optimizing on the Mac side. Well done!

EDIT: false alarm. Something broke in my rules for my dictionary collection.

Do you need to change "type:Dictionary" to "type:Encyclopedia"? http://community.logos.com/forums/t/24033.aspx

This is absolutely awesome!!  I have been very critical of Logos on the parallel resource problem.  But this is the best update so far.  It makes Logos SOOOO much more usable.

Thanks!

Do you need to change "type:Dictionary" to "type:Encyclopedia"?

Thank you Sir! That was exactly the problem. Guess i missed that post [:D]

I wouldn't say "INSTANT" (it took 2-3 seconds for me), but it's clearly much faster than it was before, and I'm sure it would be even snappier if I had a machine with better benchmarks. Thank you!

Thank you Logos!  This sure does make this feature more usable!

John

I wouldn't say "INSTANT" (it took 2-3 seconds for me)

Is it 2-3 seconds every time you use the menu, or just the first time you drop it down? (The first time it's used it may take longer, particularly if you have many collections.)

I wouldn't say "INSTANT" (it took 2-3 seconds for me)

Is it 2-3 seconds every time you use the menu, or just the first time you drop it down? (The first time it's used it may take longer, particularly if you have many collections.)

First time per resource. Subsequent times it's instantaneous. But then if I switch tabs to another resource, it again takes 2-3 seconds to populate.

First time per resource. Subsequent times it's instantaneous. But then if I switch tabs to another resource, it again takes 2-3 seconds to populate.

The "first time" I spoke of was per-session, so if you're seeing that same delay with a new resource, it's probably due to the amount of work that has to be done to compute the available parallel resources (even with the improved code).

Do you have a lot of collections with "Show in parallel resources" checked? On a typical resource, how many different collections appear on the parallel resources menu once it does appear?

First time per resource. Subsequent times it's instantaneous. But then if I switch tabs to another resource, it again takes 2-3 seconds to populate.

The "first time" I spoke of was per-session, so if you're seeing that same delay with a new resource, it's probably due to the amount of work that has to be done to compute the available parallel resources (even with the improved code).

Do you have a lot of collections with "Show in parallel resources" checked? On a typical resource, how many different collections appear on the parallel resources menu once it does appear?

Not a lot. I've got All Commentaries, English Bibles, Bible Dictionaries, Biographical Resources, Greek Lexicons, and Hebrew Lexicons. On a typical resource, there are two collections on the parallel resources menu. There can be up to 70 items in a single parallel resource list (for Bibles in particular). I've got a library of 4,229 resources.

As for the performance: Just for example, I've got a bunch of tabs open -- among them TNIV and two copies of NRSV. TNIV has a check mark on the English Bibles collection in the parallel resources menu. Both copies of NRSV have the checkmark on the "All parallel resources" side of the menu. I can click on the three tabs in sequence, and thendrop down the parallel resources menu of each, and even if I'm just going from one of the NRSVs to the other, the menu takes 2-3 seconds to populate. If I drop it down again immediately, it's instantaneous. If I return to a tab which I'd previously selected and again drop down the menu, it's again instantaneous. You'd think the menu could be populated once and the same menu would work on any of the resources that were in the same collections.

BTW, I wish there had been a quick way to answer your first question -- either a keystroke to open the next collection in alphabetical order, or a grid view of all collection names, with a column for whether the "show in parallel resources" checkbox is checked and a column for total number of resources in the collection. As it was I had to open up each of my 79 collections in turn to check for that checkbox. I did a bit of tweaking while I was at it (removed the checkmarks from all my collections of individual commentary types -- since I realized they are all included in the overarching "All Commentaries" one), but it didn't improve things.

That was fast!

But not necessarily accurate. On a Strong's Number in type:lexicons (19 resources) I'll get 12 resources of which half don't have an index! On another occasion I'll see 6 resources in Lexicons.

Mine is instant the first time and every time. Wow - this is a welcome improvement!

My number one request is performance improvement, followed closely by letting us know what is being downloaded.

Good job, Logos!

Jerry

truly welcome!  indeed!

Peace to all!

4.2 beta 3 INSTANT parallel resources

Great news.  Fast PRA's make working on notebooks (with their small displays) wonderful.  Back in the L3 days, I learned the location of my frequently accessed resources, so checking them was as automatic as touch-typing.  E.g. In a Bible window, from my default Bible, 2 left arrows was the NIV, 1 right arrow was HDNT, etc.  It may sound strange, but I found it less "stressful" to check other resources this way than mousing and clicking on tabs.

Having been one of the biggest complainers about slow parallel resources, can I just say a very big thank you for quietly slipping out this improvement. Would you care to share what, technically you have done?

Some bugs do remain, however, seemingly with resources with an irregular coverage. For example, opening a commentary to 2 Corinthians 5:21 shows Harotounian's Calvin commentary whose index jumps about all over the place, and you just end up going to the title page.

I too, am very grateful for this improvement. thank you for your continued work and improvements.

Having been one of the biggest complainers about slow parallel resources

Hi Mark,

I don't know if you are the biggest, I have been complaining about this too and I am 6' 6" tall which makes me bigger than 99% of the population.

I too am grateful that this feature finally works the way it should have from the beginning.

Thanks Logos.

But not necessarily accurate. On a Strong's Number in type:lexicons (19 resources) I'll get 12 resources of which half don't have an index! On another occasion I'll see 6 resources in Lexicons.

Can you provide some details or a screenshot?

Having been one of the biggest complainers about slow parallel resources, can I just say a very big thank you for quietly slipping out this improvement. Would you care to share what, technically you have done?

We started caching resource collections; collections are no longer re-evaluated every time the menu is dropped down. This will also help a lot for users with nested collections.

We also eliminated code that opens every resource in the "All Parallel Resources" collection and checks if it actually has the current reference; instead, we use metadata about the range of references that the resource contains to detect (much more quickly) if the resource is very likely to have the current reference. This logic was already being used for custom collections; we just extended it to All Parallel Resources.

Some bugs do remain, however, seemingly with resources with an irregular coverage. For example, opening a commentary to 2 Corinthians 5:21 shows Harotounian's Calvin commentary whose index jumps about all over the place, and you just end up going to the title page.

This is a result of the less precise (but much quicker) verification that is happening in Beta 3. You would have experienced exactly the same behaviour in Beta 2 if Calvin: Commentaries (Haroutunian) was in a custom collection; in Beta 3, it's also now happening in "All Parallel Resources".

This is a result of the less precise (but much quicker) verification that is happening in Beta 3. You would have experienced exactly the same behaviour in Beta 2 if Calvin: Commentaries (Haroutunian) was in a custom collection; in Beta 3, it's also now happening in "All Parallel Resources".

I'll take the compromise. Good choice in my book.

This is a result of the less precise (but much quicker) verification that is happening in Beta 3. You would have experienced exactly the same behaviour in Beta 2 if Calvin: Commentaries (Haroutunian) was in a custom collection; in Beta 3, it's also now happening in "All Parallel Resources".

I'll take the compromise. Good choice in my book.

Just so I understand... are you saying that because of the quicker verification process, that we may receive 'hits' in the parallel resource drop down that isn't applicable to our text? How is that helpful at all? I'd rather wait a few seconds and know that I'm getting what I'm looking for. If I save time on the search but waste time on looking through a resource that doesn't have my applicable text is not helpful.

Did I misunderstand?

Just so I understand... are you saying that because of the quicker verification process, that we may receive 'hits' in the parallel resource drop down that isn't applicable to our text? How is that helpful at all? I'd rather wait a few seconds and know that I'm getting what I'm looking for. If I save time on the search but waste time on looking through a resource that doesn't have my applicable text is not helpful.

Did I misunderstand?

I'm assuming its something along the lines of:

the current verse is 1 Cor 1:3, the parallel resource panel shows all commentaries that cover 1 Corinthians. One commentary may cover verses 2 and 4, but not three. It will be shown anyway.

I'd rather it show such a commentary. It may show me context that I would miss otherwise. I'm sure there will be differences of opinion, but this is mine.

I'd rather it show such a commentary.

I agree, but for it to be useful, it needs to take me to the nearest verse. Currently it just dumps me at the title page.

That said, in an ideal world, I'd like it to be accurate and fast. I hope this development is a step towards that, not a 'this will do instead'.

I agree, but for it to be useful, it needs to take me to the nearest verse. Currently it just dumps me at the title page.

I didn't realize that. It does need to get you to the closest verse.

But not necessarily accurate. On a Strong's Number in type:lexicons (19 resources) I'll get 12 resources of which half don't have an index! On another occasion I'll see 6 resources in Lexicons.

Can you provide some details or a screenshot?

Open DBL Greek and set the reference to G4033:-

Jump to Enhanced Strong's:-

Note 1. ESL initially showed the corresponding GK number, not the Strong's number.

        2. If i jump back to DBL Greek it shows the same Lexicon list as ESL!

        3. A similar case is G4100, but when it goes back to DBL Gk the list is the same 6 as ESL

        4. It does not occur for all references in DBL Gk, nor is it repeatable for the ones I've shown here.

        5. The story is the same for DBL Hebrew to ESL and back.

        6. ESL can also give a verbose list & jumping to DBL provides the shorter list!

I agree, but for it to be useful, it needs to take me to the nearest verse. Currently it just dumps me at the title page.

 

I agree.  

I'd rather wait a few seconds and know that I'm getting what I'm looking for.

To wait (more than a few seconds), click the + sign (in the tab bar) to add a new tab; it still performs an precise search for parallel resources (and shows the results as they arrive).

I'd rather it show such a commentary.

I agree, but for it to be useful, it needs to take me to the nearest verse. Currently it just dumps me at the title page.

That said, in an ideal world, I'd like it to be accurate and fast. I hope this development is a step towards that, not a 'this will do instead'.

Look at The New Manners and Customs of the Bible. In Romans it has articles for:-

• 7:24
• 8:15
• 16:16

The result from Parallel Resources for verses in Ro 1-6 incl. will be the front page, but the result for chapters is 7:24.

• Verses in ch 7 go to 7:24.
• Ro 7:25 will go to Ro 7:24.
• Verses in ch 8 go to 8:15.
• Chapters 9-15 go to 8:15
• Verses in ch 9-15 go to the front page
• etc.

PG works similarly, but does not list the commentary when Parallel Resources will dump you at the front page. Therefore Parallel Resources is just as accurate as PG!

I also want to say thank you to Logos for the speed improvement on parallel resources. I'm now using this feature. Great job!

Open DBL Greek and set the reference to G4033:-

[snip]

OK, I see the problem here, but I'm pretty sure this is exactly how 4.1 behaved. (The optimisation only changed how the "All Parallel Resources" list was created, it didn't change how the list for a custom collection is created, what happens when you jump to a parallel resource, etc.) I'll file bugs on the issues you've raised.

I agree, but for it to be useful, it needs to take me to the nearest verse. Currently it just dumps me at the title page.

That said, in an ideal world, I'd like it to be accurate and fast. I hope this development is a step towards that, not a 'this will do instead'.

This is exactly the same behaviour as 4.1 for resources in a custom collection; in 4.2 Beta 3, that behaviour is now exposed from the "All parallel resources" menu. So this has been a longstanding bug; on the bright side, if we fix it, it fixes both custom collections and "All parallel resources".

This is exactly the same behaviour as 4.1 for resources in a custom collection;

Strange we didn't spot it before. I guess that's because almost all of our commentaries do comment on every passage at some level or other.

OK, I see the problem here, but I'm pretty sure this is exactly how 4.1 behaved.

Yes. I'd reported this behaviour some time ago, but hopefully we are now moving toward similar results for custom collections.

Strange we didn't spot it before.

It used to crash for custom collections and now we get the front page for custom + All Parallel! The additional issue for custom collections is inconsistently displaying a resource when it has no index for the required data type (my reply to Bradley).

I guess that's because almost all of our commentaries do comment on every passage at some level or other.

The algorithm for matching passages gives a very good chance of getting a hit in a half-way decent commentary (unlike New Manners and Customs of the Bible!).

Open DBL Greek and set the reference to G4033:-

[snip]

OK, I see the problem here, but I'm pretty sure this is exactly how 4.1 behaved. (The optimisation only changed how the "All Parallel Resources" list was created, it didn't change how the list for a custom collection is created, what happens when you jump to a parallel resource, etc.) I'll file bugs on the issues you've raised.

Thank you. 4.2 Beta 7 has stabilised the tracking of data type in resources with multiple indexes {Active reference data type is reserved when switching parallel resources}.