The Great RAM Cram Debate
Friends,
There seems to be a strong difference of opinion on this forum about RAM. Some say 4 Gb is plenty and others say more, more, MORE!
I recently upgraded my 64-OS notebook from 4Gb to 8 and I still have the old memory sticks! If we can agree on a Logos-centered test, I'll put my machine through its paces with 4Gb, then with 8Gb. I've already done NovaBench tests and posted them here, but I'm more interested in how RAM affects Logos performance.
My signature summarizes my hardware. There are many, many Logos forum users with more up-to-date systems, not to mention MUCH more technical expertise. If anyone else would like to take the RAM cram challenge, they are welcome to it! 
How does one test the performance of Logos?
Pastor, rural Baptist church
Notebook: Dell Precision 4400; Core 2 Duo, 2.5gh; 8Gb RAM; NVIDIA FX 770M w/ 512Mb; Win7 Pro 64-bit; Novabench 510; WEI 5.9
Netbook: MSI Wind 12: Novabench 198; WEI 3.1
Comments
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Additional RAM will help Logos because Windows will use the extra RAM to cache frequently used files. How much RAM you need will depend on how large your library is, and how often you use similar resources. With additional RAM you should notice less slowdown when you repeat operations.
The files you will benefit most from being cached by Windows or the index files. They're stored in the following folders (all within %localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}):
- \ResourceManager\logos
- \BibleIndex
- \LibraryIndex
Those three folders will be about 1.5Gb per 1,000 resources that you own. If you have sufficient RAM so that all these files can be cached, you should notice increasing speed benefits during a Logos session. Particular areas that should benefit from this caching are the three guides, searching, and the parallel resources menu.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Steve Johnson said:
How does one test the performance of Logos?
I doubt that one would notice any difference between 4 GB and 8 GB in normal use. The statistics of search times may show differences, but which value do you take because the first is slowest and then caching takes over, making subsequent runs faster, eventually levelling out eg. 0.96s, 0.86, 0.67, 0.64 etc. Do you search a single resource or a collection? If a PG is populated 1s faster, is that significant? If it is too slow we tend to focus on the information that is really needed and customise accordingly.
The debate is really about affording 8 GB or more (if the system/OS will accept more!) because there is no question that more is better (multitasking, future-proofing for genuine 64 bit apps, etc). 4 GB is the minimum for new systems, but I've run a 64 bit OS + L4 in 2 GB
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
I doubt that one would notice any difference between 4 GB and 8 GB in normal use....
My NovaBench scores took a nice bounce with the upgrade: 479 to 510.
Pastor, rural Baptist church
Notebook: Dell Precision 4400; Core 2 Duo, 2.5gh; 8Gb RAM; NVIDIA FX 770M w/ 512Mb; Win7 Pro 64-bit; Novabench 510; WEI 5.9
Netbook: MSI Wind 12: Novabench 198; WEI 3.1
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Although I've been experimenting with a RAM drive recently, I noted a few days ago that the first generation OCZ Revo Drive is now at a very interesting pricepoint. The 50GB drive is about the price of 16GB of good quality RAM, and offers considerably more storage.
I am thinking seriously of purchasing one of these specifically for Logos, especially since the size of the drive offers massive over-provisioning in proportion to the size of my entire Logos folder (around 21GB).
For those interested, a Revo Drive benchmark looks like this. Most important is its significantly superior 4k performance over standard SSDs (see here and here).
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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Jonathan Burke said:
I am thinking seriously of purchasing one of these specifically for Logos, especially since the size of the drive offers massive over-provisioning in proportion to the size of my entire Logos folder (around 21GB).
You do have to make sure you've got enough room for re-indexing as well. Before purchasing I'd definitely track disk usage during a re-index command.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks Mark. Do you think re-indexing a 20GB folder will use up 50GB of space?
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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Jonathan Burke said:
Do you think re-indexing a 20GB folder will use up 50GB of space?
I don't know. I think the index folder can at least double during re-indexing (the new index is created before the old one is deleted), so you might get close to it. But the only way to be certain is to check.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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That's interesting, the first thing I've noticed when re-indexing is that the original folder is emptied. Or may that was a bug when I was re-indexing after an index corruption.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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I would love to put a SSD in either my notebook (for Logos) or netbook (for instant-on convenience). I wonder if the $$$ I spent on an extra 4Gb of RAM might have been better used that way. I think the notebook has an empty bay for a second HD.
Pastor, rural Baptist church
Notebook: Dell Precision 4400; Core 2 Duo, 2.5gh; 8Gb RAM; NVIDIA FX 770M w/ 512Mb; Win7 Pro 64-bit; Novabench 510; WEI 5.9
Netbook: MSI Wind 12: Novabench 198; WEI 3.1
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Jonathan Burke said:
That's interesting, the first thing I've noticed when re-indexing is that the original folder is emptied. Or may that was a bug when I was re-indexing after an index corruption.
You're quite right. I was thinking of the merge index command. This used to quietly merge the index, but due to merge bugs was re-programmed to create a complete new index, then delete the old one. However, as of 4.2a merge is defunct, so I guess from your perspective that significantly reduces your requirements.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Jonathan Burke said:
That's interesting, the first thing I've noticed when re-indexing is that the original folder is emptied. Or may that was a bug when I was re-indexing after an index corruption.
No bug - a Rebuild does that. With 24 GB of L4 you should find 50GB ample space (I calculate you need about 40 GB, allowing space for indexing and for Windows and the SSD to work efficiently).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks Dave, that's what I thought. At the current pricepoint, 50GB of PCIE SSD is looking good. Oh, and for reference I would actually not be installing Windows on it. I would use it for Logos 4 and as a scratch drive for Photoshop. This would give Logos plenty of room to stretch its legs.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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Jonathan Burke said:
Oh, and for reference I would actually not be installing Windows on it. I would use it for Logos 4 and as a scratch drive for Photoshop.
If you have the space, you will find advantage in putting Windows (and ideally your swap file) on it. I bought a fast drive (a Velociraptor, not SSD) for that purpose, and it has made a difference all round.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
If you have the space, you will find advantage in putting Windows (and ideally your swap file) on it.
Not in 50 GB - that is just adequate for Logos4 + some cache files
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Mark Barnes said:
If you have the space, you will find advantage in putting Windows (and ideally your swap file) on it.
Not in 50 GB - that is just adequate for Logos4 + some cache files
I run L4 on a netbook with a 30GB ssd. It does ok.
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K.J. said:
I run L4 on a netbook with a 30GB ssd. It does ok.
I'm intrigued, K.J. My 2nd PC is a netbook and I'm surprised at how well Logos works. I wonder if it would be helpful to start a new thread of netbook tips and tricks.
Pastor, rural Baptist church
Notebook: Dell Precision 4400; Core 2 Duo, 2.5gh; 8Gb RAM; NVIDIA FX 770M w/ 512Mb; Win7 Pro 64-bit; Novabench 510; WEI 5.9
Netbook: MSI Wind 12: Novabench 198; WEI 3.1
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K.J. said:
I run L4 on a netbook with a 30GB ssd. It does ok.
I was referring to a Notebook/Desktop with Windows 7, where
- user's L4 is 20 GB
- the Windows folder alone is about 16 GB
So both of them will not fit on a 30 GB drive of any description, let alone fit programs!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Of course you are right. I had no business expressing my opinion.
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K.J. said:
I had no business expressing my opinion.
Your opinion is welcome - just needed to be qualified[:)]
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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