How do I get "information" tool to work as expected?

[quote]I think there are a couple of issues here.

First, ESL is the Enhanced Strong's Lexicon; in 4.0 we're replacing this book, which is a version of Strong's Lexicon "enhanced" by adding KJV translations of the terms with frequency counts, with a clean, straight edition of the Strong's Lexicon. The older ESL was one of our very first books (15 years ago!) and it incorrectly (according to our current design principles) has the English translations as headwords. So it reports that Hebrew article because it's serving as your highest ranked English dictionary with a headword for "gave".

I will add an English dictionary.  I have ESL at the bottom of my list of preferred resources - if adding an English dictionary doesn't help I'll remove ESL completely.

[quote]We'll be correcting this resource (did you do the crossgrade download yet? the correction may be done already), and it won't even be shipping as part of new 4.0 collections.

I did the cross grade (thanks by the way:-), it didn't change this problem.

[quote]The remaining problems relate to the fact that when you're in a Bible with a reverse interlinear, there is a whole stack of text at one cursor position. So you're looking at the best hit for each of multiple data types. I not sure if the order in which we look things up is the same order as the "stack" in the reverse interlinear, but I think it is. So you're getting something based on the lemma, something based on the LN number, etc.

This makes sense - I tried turning off strong's in the interlinear view hoping it would stop it from showing up in the information window - but no luck.

[quote] I agree that we need to make this clearer, and we probably do need to offer some advanced customization since everyone has different needs here.

I hope you'll see better performance after the updated books are downloaded, and we'll tweak it and look into ways to let you choose which of the items gets looked up.

To me this is key - for example I would never want an English definition of the word - also I never want to see the cross references that always show up.

If the information window followed the format of the Bible explorer tool - I think it would be a big help.

For example, here is a screen shot of the explorer:

If in place of people place and thing there was say "English Dictionary"

In place of Media was Lemma.

In place of My Content was Louw Nida

Then you could expand only the info you want.

A couple of Ideas on the customization:

If Logos 4 remembered the settings of which headings were expanded, then if I never expanded the English dictionary heading - I would never get that information.

So if All I wanted was Lemma, then I would only have that heading expanded, and Logos 4 would remember this preference for each word I hover over.

Also, a very important thing in my books is that the search only takes place if I expand the heading.  Right now I have to wait 10 seconds for every word I hover over to get the information on my screen.  in V3 it takes less than a second.  Obviously V4 is doing a lot more work, getting stuff I don't want it to.  So if it was set up to only search for the information for the expanded headings only, things would be much quicker. ( If I expand an other heading I don't mind waiting one second for the information to come up, but 10 seconds per word is to high in my books)

This is true of Bible explorer as well.  If V4 would remember my settings for expanded headings and only do the search for what I have expanded, it would be a much more effective and efficient tool.

Also of significance - it would be very good for both the information tool and the Bible explorer tool, to be able to change the order of the headings.  So I could set the information in the order I want to see it.

The way I would like to see this accomplished (just one opinion) is like this:

I expand the headings I want to see.  Lets say in information view I have Lemma expanded, and none others - the next time I use the information tool on a word in my interlinear bible, Lemma will be at the top of the list.   If every once and a while I expand Louw Nida than that would become second.  If I never or rarely use cross reference then that would stay last.  In this way the settings set themself based on my usage.  I just use the software it sets the preference based on my patterns.  This would fit the mentality of the software (no fuss upgrading, etc.) and would make it very useful to new users.

This would be the same for Bible explorer (for example I want the commentaries to be listed first, but now they are set to show up last.  I have to wait 18 seconds for the explorer to show the commentaries because it is last in priority (if I do a passage guide search I have the info in 8 seconds because it it higher in priority).  

So to some up, it would be great if all guides, and tools followed the same guidelines and settings as follows:

1.  Program remembers whether you expand or keep contracted each heading.  (this already happens in passage guides, explorer tool, but does not have this in the information tool (no headings yet:-) nor in the cited by tool.

2.  V4 remembers which headings you expand most often and stacks them in the appropriate order. (in all tools)

3.  V4 only searches for the information in the expanded headings.  

#3  is extremely important in my opinion to the reception of this software. I will post some search comparison in another post.

Passage guide for Gen 1 1

V3 = 16 seconds

V4 = 35

exegetical guide

V3 = 11 seconds

V4 = 25 seconds

information (used with reverse interlinear while
mousing over words)

V3 = almost instant (Information accurate and
helpful)

V4 = apr. 10 seconds (information is mostly
unhelpful and often inaccurate)

Library search for Gen 1 1

V3 = 180 seconds with 232802 hits I can quickly
see all the hits and know what is relivant right away because of how well it is
presented on my screen

V4 = apr. 22 seconds per page (I had 14 pages of
results for a total of 308 seconds) The information is far less clear – I
find myself unsure of even where to look and I no longer search my library like
I did all the time in V3) (I also hate having to go through pages!)

Opening home page (with roughly the same settings
in V3 and V4)

V3 = 11 seconds – Simple very productive - I
instantly know what the software does and how to use it.

V4 = 45 seconds – looks great but is very
unhelpful (even confusing and distracting at first, but I have adjusted) (I
currently have it turned off so I will not see the information Logos wants me to
see)

Most all of this (except home page issues) would be different I think if #3 from my list above was implemented.

Logos staff: please don't take my resent posts as being negative - I am really getting into using V4.  I just would like it to be simple and efficient - and I am also very nervous how people upgrading are going to react if some of these things ar smoothed out quickly.

They are expecting this version to be faster and simpler - and it currently is much slower and although simple to use (great interface!) the information is definitely not easy to sift through.

I have no question the Logos team will address these things in a great way - but first impressions tend to stick - and with an immanent release I'm a little nervous -  and I'm just a tester.

 

The cross-grade ESL (2009-10-28) no longer has English headwords but retains the "enhanced" content as you described ie. it is not "clean, straight"

The New Strong's Dictionary of Hebrew and Greek Words (2006-04-24) has that "clean, straight" character, except that it has English headwords. Why not remove the English headwords rather than introduce another Strong's Lexicon?

Dave, (or anyone else), is the new ESL  "A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible"?  In my library it has a 2009 date.  This is the only new Strong's resource I have received.