Leak from Dan "All Nighter" Pritchett: Logos is going to release some new cool website on Friday...

Arggg!

These guys must work for network television!

Not quite as exciting as we might hope (at least, it's not PBB). It's actually http://vyrso.com/ which is designed to help sell Logos books to non-Logos iPhone/iPad user. There's a brief note from Bob here.

I wonder if this could be related in any way to Apple's new policy for ebook readers?

If this is simply another type of ebook reader for the iOS, why would Logos invest money into building it if they aren't sure how stuff will play out with Apple in the next month or so?

Greg Masone said:

Why would Logos invest money into building it if they aren't sure how stuff will play out with Apple in the next month or so?

My guess is that they do know how the Apple policy affects them and based on that knowledge are able to continue moving Logos on iOS forward.

Mark Barnes said:

Not quite as exciting as we might hope (at least, it's not PBB). It's actually http://vyrso.com/ which is designed to help sell Logos books to non-Logos iPhone/iPad user. There's a brief note from Bob here.

How do you know that this is what they were referring to? A recent tweet by Logos said they were about to release a bunch of websites, close in number to the 22 they already have.

Philip Spitzer said:

My guess is that they do know how the Apple policy affects them and based on that knowledge are able to continue moving Logos on iOS forward.

That would be my guess, too.  Logos is run by some pretty smart people.  I don't think they in to wasting time and resources on a platform without a future. 

Michael Childs said:

I don't think they in to wasting time and resources on a platform without a future. 

tom collinge said:

Michael Childs said:

I don't think they in to wasting time and resources on a platform without a future. 

If you ask me WPF matches this criteria.  NOTE: WPF did not match this criteria when the decision was first made to use WPF.

and,  Logos did list the Oxford Latin Dictionary as a Pre-Pub in 2009 and entered into development without having the license to sell it. [6]   Luke 14:28-30

Frank Sauer said:

Hello PC Study Bible I guess

PC Study Bible would be out of the frying pan into the inferno. It's seen zero development since Windows XP days.

May be right there Mark, though there was a recent update to Version 5. However at least they know they are a Bible Study Software company... So its customers do not sit by watching promised features fall by the wayside year by year as they release church presentation software and website after website while still not meeting promised feature demands... Not to mention the fact that many people have PAID for the two major features that are still missing.

Quite simply put... If Logos put the energy into getting important features finished instead of giving us the failing "coming soon" and including similar misleading statements when selling upgrades, many of those like myself who are frustrated would be content with what was the "Cadillac" of Bible Study software...

Now we are relegated to maintaining 2 software engines and wasting time to use 2 engines, watching more releases that have nothing to do with Bible Study software or even implementing it to the fastest growing engine base (Android) in a timely fashion, all while we see more emphasis on meaningless to Bible Study Software projects....

IIRC Mark, you were around from day one in Beta testing... We were begging for PBB and Sermon File then... Well patience has been plentiful... No matter what Logos says... Action has been minimal... Evident by what is being released...

So here we sit with incomplete Bible Study Software, unfulfilled and continually extended "coming soon" promises online and at POS, outdated and useless User Forums when we consider mobile platform use.... But we do have another website... lol

Mark Barnes said:

Frank Sauer said:

Hello PC Study Bible I guess

PC Study Bible would be out of the frying pan into the inferno. It's seen zero development since Windows XP days.

Frank Sauer said:

Before all the Apple lovers call me an Apple hater... I could care less if that is their path... Just make it very clear and stop wasting the rest of our time! There are many manufacturers who change direction... Be honest with your words as much as your actions show proof of your path... Everything with any relevance being released is catering to Apple iOS....

That's not at all what's happening. Vyrso is just a cut-down version of an existing app. I'd be surprised if it took more than two days to modify the existing Logos app to create it. On the other hand, Logos have made it clear that they're working hard on a new Android app. When it comes out, I'm sure it will be accompanied by the Vyrso app too.

Two years ago Mac users were all complaining Logos only cared about Windows users. Logos has invested hugely in all things Apple, but only to make up for lost time. Android's time will come, and when it does the Microsoft/Nokia/Palm/Kindle users will take your place.

Alex Scott said:

Face it - we're NOT going to get PBB until Logos has exhausted all possible, profitable, public domain resources.

I don't agree. If Logos can create a PBB marketplace, they could get great revenue from public domain resources with lot much effort after the initial investment.

Frank Sauer said:

Yeah cater to the Apple iOS users who do not own Logos, but continue to push off the Android users who have helped build and support Logos with their purchases

As for the Android "Coming Soon" page... Well seen and heard it too many times to believe it anymore... Boy who cried wolf anyone...

As for additional books - as my post in response to Bob's post this is an app that fall in category with other ebook publishers that have long had apps like Nook and Kindle... With much higher pricing...

Mark Barnes said:

Mark Barnes said:

It's exciting if you're not a Logos 4 user, just not to us

In fairness, 10,000 additional books in Logos should be exciting to all of us. Even if only 1% of those books appeal (which I suspect is about the ratio for me!), that's still 100 reasons to celebrate.

--Pleeze--      How about we all be happy this weekend? 

I'm so excited about all the good news coming out lately:

• Camp Logos Live DVDs
• Android Vyrso, 
• Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library shipping June 10th
• The "new guy" at Logos
• N.T. Wright Collection shipped this week.

About the only news that could top this list is the C.S. Lewis & Deitrich Bonhoeffer Collections are coming to Community Pricing.  [:P]

Let us be civil and thankful for our bountiful blessings.

Despite your ignorance in misspelling my name, you are way off base.

I will not stop "complaining" Many bought Logos on promises never delivered. I upgraded based upon PBB/Sermon File coming in a couple weeks over SIX Months ago!

So you can continue on with your stance that we only buy the books... Because that is not what Logos uses to market and sell their product, if it were they would be out of business because they are high priced on most resources, they market and sell the engine and the tools that are part of it. Then try to sell more books to make the profit to cover the engine development costs.

And no I do not have the access as advertized, still no PBB or Sermon File over a year after they were promised... If you really believe they are giving us anything for free... Well that is your opinion... A lot of people PAID for the Sermon File Addin and it was promised and insinuated that it would receive top priority because of that... Instead we still have to use two systems to have full access....

Frank Sauer said:

Shows a lot about the integrity of the MVPs

There are 21 forum MVPs.   To my knowledge, not one of them has the authority or ability to kill a thread, ban a user, or remove a post. I know this thread would have disappeared a long rime ago if we did.  The few Logos employees who do have that power are probably asleep in their beds after a long week at work. This is a holiday weekend in the USA and late-night mud-slinging isn't worth staying up for. 

It would be helpful if EVERYONE acted like Jesus.

Frank Sauer said:

Despite your ignorance in misspelling my name, you are way off base.

Just an intentional play on words.

Frank Sauer said:

I will not stop "complaining" Many bought Logos on promises never delivered. I upgraded based upon PBB/Sermon File coming in a couple weeks over SIX Months ago!

You bought books to be used within Logos 4 that would highlight current features within Logos 4. You can still use Logos 3 if you like.

Frank Sauer said:

So you can continue on with your stance that we only buy the books...

Thank you. I certainly will.

Frank Sauer said:

And no I do not have the access as advertized

Which one of these advertised features don't you have access to?

Frank Sauer said:

A lot of people PAID for the Sermon File Addin

Did you pay for it? If so, why aren't you still using it in Logos 3? After all, this page right here emphasizes that one can still use their Logos 3 installation alongside their Logos 4 installation if they like. That is, of course, until the desired features are implemented.

Why don't you do that and chose something else to talk about for a little while?

Theolobias said:

But, please, people - this shouldn't be an excuse for anybody to step over the boundaries of a fair and decent discussion. If you have concerns, share them. If you don't get the impression Logos is taking these concerns seriously - share it. But please keep your temper.

Amen [Y]

By the way, you quoted Martha Theolobias, but I am sure Rosie would also agree with what Martha has said. [:)]

My ,.02, it would seem 99% of Logos users really love version 4. I know I do.  We get in a cycle of venting our frustrations about PBB and sermon addin since it has been a very long time. Even the MVPs vent on it, albeit more professionally than others ;-)

Bob is very gracious to respond and give us a more detailed update on where things are, and it's clear to me, if you view the change in what has been communicated over the last few months, that progress has been made, especially on PBB (not much known on sermon addin). It was not that long ago that Bob openly admitted not much could be said other than it's being worked on, because details were not ironed out yet.

That said, I do think there is a disconnect, that customers express frustration on the time it has taken, way beyond any expectations set, and Bob responds with an update on where we are today. The frustration is eased but not satisfied.

Sometimes customers like to hear the software company say yes, it has been way longer than we wanted, and here's why and how we hope that doesn't happen again. Bob is normally pretty open, but there must be some big reason or two that PBB (and sermon addin) are more than a year later than originally committed. That's almost inconceivable to us, which is why the negative/doomsday opinions start to surface IMHO.

Without this, all we know is that big promises will happen at some point (if you still believe sermon addin will be delivered), but you won't have any confidence that it may be a year or two later than promised. Logos has been far more open in their customer communication than to let that sentiment persist. IMHO. By putting those concerns to rest, Logos shows they understand what happened with these two and can avoid it in the future. IMHO this is a lot more valuable marketing endeavor to increase confidence and perception of Logos and their products than some of the more traditional marketing efforts we see.

None of this would really be up for discussion, nor would it set an expectation, if Bob and Logos were not as open and communicative as they are, so as always we thank you for that.

Greg Masone said:

Frank Sauer said:

Despite your ignorance in misspelling my name, you are way off base.

Just an intentional play on words.

So an intentionally insulting name calling play on words... very offensive

Frank Sauer said:

I will not stop "complaining" Many bought Logos on promises never delivered. I upgraded based upon PBB/Sermon File coming in a couple weeks over SIX Months ago!

Greg Masone said:

You bought books to be used within Logos 4 that would highlight current features within Logos 4. You can still use Logos 3 if you like.

You still ignore the fact that Logos does not go around showing what books it has, but the power of the engine. Logos uses the engine as the selling point to generate revenue through the purchase of books.

Frank Sauer said:

And no I do not have the access as advertized

Greg Masone said:

Which one of these advertised features don't you have access to?

It is the features that were promised to be delivered back in the first quarter of 2010, that many users were told would be done to use as a selling point for the crossgrades and upgrades. Even my last upgrade toward the end of last year came with assurances that PBB was weeks away not 6 months or more. So as for features listed on the Logos 4 feature set, well they are there. HOWEVER, my biggest problem is the misleading customers at the POS that something is very close and it was not even in pre release beta form at the time. Having been a part of the Beta testing from the beginning I'm tired of the false promises and as stated the constant carrot in front of our faces with important features. Yet no recognition that Logos has failed us with well over a year of continued and failed "coming soons" As someone else stated nice outlines like Bob posted elsewhere are nice... However as that poster mentioned, sometimes a company has to just be honest and admit failure to its customers instead of constant excuses.

Frank Sauer said:

A lot of people PAID for the Sermon File Addin

Greg Masone said:

Did you pay for it? If so, why aren't you still using it in Logos 3? After all, this page right here emphasizes that one can still use their Logos 3 installation alongside their Logos 4 installation if they like. That is, of course, until the desired features are implemented.

Why don't you do that and chose something else to talk about for a little while?

I have stated multiple times that I have both versions installed! This is one of my biggest problems... I'm tired of having to use two platforms to accomplish tasks for going on two years now...

I'd love to hear some of the users in this forum if Windows had you run dual installs to accomplish tasks... We sure heard it from Mac Users who had to run parallels or something to use Logos...

Beyond all this, I did not personally attack or call anyone out of their name. I challenge what has been a failure to produce and the business model of promising things are right around the corner that are not being worked on... I am not alone in this, as others have posted about this happening as well... Yet nothing from Logos in the form of an apology or public addressing of this practice, unless I missed it, which I will remove this statement immediately if I did.

Frank Sauer said:

I challenge what has been a failure to produce and the business model of promising things are right around the corner that are not being worked on... I am not alone in this, as others have posted about this happening as well... Yet nothing from Logos in the form of an apology or public addressing of this practice, unless I missed it, which I will remove this statement immediately if I did.

If you are that unhappy with the state of product and the people producing it, just ask for a refund. Short of that, in view of the public responses already given by Logos (including Bob's response in this thread) in addressing these concerns, I don't think they owe anyone an apology.