PBB Update?
Comments
-
Just as you can't make a baby in less than 9 months by adding more human resources to the task,
The Old Testament does document polygamy......................................................................
Yup, but even with multiple wives, you still can't make any particular baby in less than 9 months. You might make 3 or 4 babies in that same amount of time, though (and without even needing to do twins or triplets). So think of that as an analogy to what Logos is doing. In the time they're doing PBB (which they can't shorten no matter how hard they try) they are also doing Vyrso, Proclaim, and adding infrastructure to allow sharing and collaboration in a future release. And bringing out a bunch of pre-pubs as well... They've got parallel teams working on these separate things in tandem, not taking time away from one priority to do another.
Noticed => Important changes to sync feature coming in 4.3 Beta 6 includes:
The re-writing of the sync feature is being done in order to pave the way for some exciting future features (groups, sharing, collaboration, etc.)
Looking forward to exciting Logos 4 Bible Study improvements [:D] (wondering if sharing includes PBB's, Notes, etc)
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
I would favor giving us the ability to at least read PBB files in 4.0 even if later on those same files need to be rebuilt so enhanced features can be incorporated. Let the once optional publisher be yet in the future as it is developed along the lines we have been promised. In the meantime we'd be able to read and search our PBB files.
Um, you all are making me nervous about PBB. I'm wondering if we're on the same page.
We can not read the old PBB files in Logos 4. That isn't happening and isn't being worked on. Those old PBB books were built from HTML, and we viewed them by literally embedding Internet Explorer into Libronix to allow presentation of the books.
This had many problems:
A) The books weren't in the native Logos format. They lacked some important functionality, and never integrated with notes, etc.
IE broke us over and over, and we are no longer willing to be dependent on it. (I believe many of you have supported us in that decision.)Writing a "stop-gap" that reads the old PBB isn't going to work, because we'd have to either introduce a dependency on IE (nearly impossible, with our current platform, and technical suicide even if possible), OR we'd have to write something that parsed HTML into our internal formats, and that would be much harder than rewriting PBB from the ground up.
The new PBB will read Word documents with the same markup as we used for the old PBB. Books will need to be recompiled from Word. (Old PBB books were technically compiled from HTML, but most people built them in Word and exported them to HTML.) This should, for most people, be much easier than the old system, will involve no exporting, and will work on Mac and Windows.
If you built PBB books in HTML directly, you'll need to bring them into Word.
If you hate Word / prefer OpenOffice, etc. we don't yet have a solution other than getting your book into Word's .DOCX format.
The good news is, the new PBB generates "real" Logos format books, with complete functionality.
The first release of PBB -- in a beta -- is imminent. It will let you compile and use books. It will not yet have support for sharing the books with others, because this is more complicated in a world of synchronization. It's coming, but it's a step behind our first priority, which is books compiling (on Mac and Windows).
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
0 -
Bob, I am looking forward to sharing PBB books. Which ones, the ones that I create, which will appear on the Logos website in their store.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0 -
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
Thanks Bob for the helpful response! I'm glad to hear the first PBB release is imminent. I'm guessing that is better than 'coming soon'?
To answer your question, I'm most looking forward to the ability to create PBB's (and of course read the one's I created). I'm sure there are others out there that will create PBB's that are suited to my fancy, but I'm more interested in importing ebooks and pdf articles into Logos that I already have. My main hope is that there is an option to NOT publish our personal PBB's on the Logos marketplace, as there are some ebooks I've paid for that are in copyright status that I'd still like to import to Logos, but obviously couldn't put them up for public distribution.I'm guessing by the slow response of being able to post this message that lots of people are responding to your question as well! (either that or my internet is just being slow right now)
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
0 -
I guess I have my answer - my internet was being slow
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
0 -
the added complexity of having more people working on it (communications, understanding each others' parts of the code, documentation, etc.) can actually eat up all the extra benefit you get from having more hands at work.
But there is also significant evidence that many IT shops can be significantly more productive by working smarter ....[8-|]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I for one was never anxious for PBB (sermon file here) however the functionality that you are explaining the new PBB to do sounds exactly like what the original Sermon File Addin accomplished. Will the first release of PBB allow for example the same or similar "tagging" fields as the original Sermon File addin to allow a sharp accuracy within meta data and searching? If so, I believe you will have made most, if not all the Sermon File users very happy with this type of release.
As for the old PBB files, I only used a few public domain resources in that format that really would not hurt my feelings to have to convert...
I would favor giving us the ability to at least read PBB files in 4.0 even if later on those same files need to be rebuilt so enhanced features can be incorporated. Let the once optional publisher be yet in the future as it is developed along the lines we have been promised. In the meantime we'd be able to read and search our PBB files.
Um, you all are making me nervous about PBB. I'm wondering if we're on the same page.
We can not read the old PBB files in Logos 4. That isn't happening and isn't being worked on. Those old PBB books were built from HTML, and we viewed them by literally embedding Internet Explorer into Libronix to allow presentation of the books.
This had many problems:
A) The books weren't in the native Logos format. They lacked some important functionality, and never integrated with notes, etc.
IE broke us over and over, and we are no longer willing to be dependent on it. (I believe many of you have supported us in that decision.)Writing a "stop-gap" that reads the old PBB isn't going to work, because we'd have to either introduce a dependency on IE (nearly impossible, with our current platform, and technical suicide even if possible), OR we'd have to write something that parsed HTML into our internal formats, and that would be much harder than rewriting PBB from the ground up.
The new PBB will read Word documents with the same markup as we used for the old PBB. Books will need to be recompiled from Word. (Old PBB books were technically compiled from HTML, but most people built them in Word and exported them to HTML.) This should, for most people, be much easier than the old system, will involve no exporting, and will work on Mac and Windows.
If you built PBB books in HTML directly, you'll need to bring them into Word.
If you hate Word / prefer OpenOffice, etc. we don't yet have a solution other than getting your book into Word's .DOCX format.
The good news is, the new PBB generates "real" Logos format books, with complete functionality.
The first release of PBB -- in a beta -- is imminent. It will let you compile and use books. It will not yet have support for sharing the books with others, because this is more complicated in a world of synchronization. It's coming, but it's a step behind our first priority, which is books compiling (on Mac and Windows).
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
0 -
If you built PBB books in HTML directly, you'll need to bring them into Word.
Yes, I'd picked that up from your earlier post and I am (glumly) making the conversion. But I keep my grousing private because you made the right decision here.
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books?
My existing L3 PBB's (shared or private) revolve around creeds, catechisms, liturgies and bible study methodology. I have been using L4 into making shareable Bible studies within L4 (rather than Dreamweaver) with an export into a publisher program.
But I also miss my ability to make lectionaries, timelines and parallels (harmonies) in L4 - I had many in L3 (> 200)
What I personally find the most frustrating was the missing features were promised for release well in advance of a new lectionary cycle (i.e. Year A) - a symbolically significant starting point for feeling I was on top of my tasks. Instead we are half way through the year and I can't build all the resources I need to be confident Year B will be in Logos 4. Sometimes the symbolic is more important than the factual ... I can pick up at any point in the cycle when the tools and resources are ready.
(and so you know it's me - Luke 18:1-8 [:D])
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
My main hope is that there is an option to NOT publish our personal PBB's on the Logos marketplace, as there are some ebooks I've paid for that are in copyright status that I'd still like to import to Logos, but obviously couldn't put them up for public distribution.
We've already been given this assurance. You can drop this item from your worry-list.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
If you built PBB books in HTML directly, you'll need to bring them into Word.
If you hate Word / prefer OpenOffice, etc. we don't yet have a solution other than getting your book into Word's .DOCX format.
So, with Libronix, I would edit the text of a book that would eventually become a PBB resource. Then I would save it as filtered HTML and then use Builder Builder to add the tags to the HTML. Then I would use PBB Builder to create the final PBB.
It sounds like I now have to take the tagged HTML files that I have archived and then bring them back into Word again as .docx. If I do that, will I have to strip out the old tags and retag? How much rework is this going to take?
I was hoping the conversion of Libronix PBBs (I have released over 50 to the community) in Logos 4 would be drop-dead simple.
Bill
0 -
If you have a large investment in content tagged outside Word it might be a good idea to send us some of those files so we can experiment with them to make sure they import into Word right, or find another solution. You could email a sample (if you're willing) to slides@logos.com.
0 -
Thanks for the info Bob,
I am waiting for the ability to create books. I have a separate library for my public domain books on books.google.com. So if I want to search my library, I have to do it in two places. I am looking forward to the ability to have my library accessible from one search engine.
0 -
Um, you all are making me nervous about PBB. I'm wondering if we're on the same page.
Who knows? I try to read your posts. I do expect the additional functionality you have been talking about.
We can not read the old PBB files in Logos 4. That isn't happening and isn't being worked on. Those old PBB books were built from HTML, and we viewed them by literally embedding Internet Explorer into Libronix to allow presentation of the books.
Fine, if there is no easy way to convert them to a format that Logos 4 can read then we'll have to await the full version.
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
There are lots of PBB books already created. So if there will be a way to bring them over, that would be the bulk of them I'd be interested in now. I don't have the source files for any of these, so would be dependent on others to make this happen. Of course until sharing is enabled it sounds like PBB will be virtually useless in this regard to me.
I would like to use PBB to produce Bible study notes, outlines, and so forth to use with my congregation members who have Logos, but that requires sharing be enabled.
I'm sure others want to publish for their own use. I don't see myself doing that now (but that might change once I see what can be done). So, basically until sharing is enabled I wouldn't see myself using PBB for much at all. (That would add to the frustration of having to wait some more for the same PBB capability we had in 3.0 and I thought we were going to have in 2010.)
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
Bob,
I want to be able to use the books from Still Truth that I currently use in Libronix. Eventually I believe I would like to self publish and perhaps put pbulic domain works like hymnals in Logos 4 as well. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
0 -
perhaps put pbulic domain works like hymnals in Logos 4 as well
Which brings up the issue of attaching/sharing sound files embedded in a Word document.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
What I am waiting for is first of all to be able to rebuild my private PBB books I created in v3 (like some Bible translations we still do not have in Logos) and also to be able to create some new books for my personal use.
I can wait for the additional features like sharing via the Logos PBB e-book store, syncing etc. If it comes later, fine with me.
I really appreciate Bob that you asked that question. Thank you. [Y]
Bohuslav
0 -
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
I really want to be able to distribute church documents in Logos including doctrinal statements, position papers, sermon transcripts, and devotional readings (communion meditations etc). This obviously won't work without sharing, but that is what I am particularly excited about.
As for things I'd like to import: I'd like to create a personal commentary of the in depth notes I've taken on passages. I'd like my commentary to be able to appear in Passage Guide and be searchable just like a book for easy reference to the work that I have done (formatting and editing limitations in Notes makes it so that this won't work well there).
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Thanks Bob for the update, it is really encouraging. I trust you understand our concern when we haven't heard specifics for quite a while and the "promise" of PBB is much much later than originally advertised. That will make customers nervous every time.
Regarding your question, I have a few documents I would like to publish, and doing the work in Word sounds great to me. My first priority though is the books I have, which are also, like Mark's, from the stilltruth site. I hope I can just import them and read them, since it sounds like sharing is not going to be available for awhile. If I can convert what I have (and I do not have source) that would be ideal. Just look at stilltruth.com to see the books I use in ver. 3...
0 -
If you hate Word / prefer OpenOffice, etc. we don't yet have a solution other than getting your book into Word's .DOCX format.
It's not that I hate Word. It is that Word for Mac will not handle Hebrew or any other right-to-left language. From the Office for Mac forums, this ability will never be implemented into Office for Mac.
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
I would like to share some of the Bible Study notes I create for classes I teach.
0 -
If you hate Word / prefer OpenOffice, etc. we don't yet have a solution other than getting your book into Word's .DOCX format.
In addition to Word for Mac's inability to handle Hebrew text, it also will not accept links to Logos resources. In effect, the decision to base PBB on MS Word causes it to become a Windows only feature. So much for feature parity. [:@]
0 -
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
The feedback I receive via email, my website and a few here in the forums indicates that there is at least a swath of users who desire to bring the 1000+ PBB's hosted on StillTruth.com into L4. I realize that technically they won't be able to until they are re-compiled for L4, but I get the feeling that it's those particular collections that have the attention of many.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thank You Indeed, Rosie, for your post!
Blessings and Peace to you!
A very refreshing post. Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of all the moaning and groaning and whining I've read on these Logos Forums over the last few days. Very depressing!
Keep up your "good manners" -- and you, dear Rosie, are never "rude" (at least that I can remember!) \
*smile*
Thank You Indeed, Rosie, for your post!
Blessings and Peace to you!
A very refreshing post. Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of all the
moaning and groaning and whining I've read on these Logos Forums over the last
few days. Very depressing!
Keep up your "good manners" -- and you, dear Rosie, are
never "rude" (at least that I can
remember!)
\
*smile*I understand that all statements made in forum/email format
make understanding one's tone, mood, etc. difficult. I believe if I was having a phone
conversation with anybody here on the boards and they could hear my perspective,
tone, etc., I don't believe they would read my posts as moaning and groaning (I realize you didn't mention me by name, but I can assume from your post that I am one of the individuals you're referring to. If I'm incorrect in this assumption, please forgive me.)With this being said, I don't believe it's wrong or sinful
in any way for me to state my absolute disappointment in the methods used to
get me/others to upgrade to 4.0 with promised features that are still missing
18 months later. I also don't believe it's wrong or sinful to me to feel I've
been lied to. Think of it this way, I'm a music buff. If I
purchased a $300 set of headphones that had driver capabilities for Windows 7, but
not Windows XP, but a driver was promised for Windows XP netbook users within 3
months...I may have still purchased the headphones. Let's say I use the
headphones on Windows 7 85% of the time, and 15% on Windows XP...so I patiently
wait for the driver to be available for my netbook. If the driver still
isn't available 18 months later, I've paid for something that I still can't use
as advertised. I was mislead. A promise was made that still hadn't
been fulfilled. This is what happened with Logos 4...I was encouraged to
purchase it (and did purchase it in November 2009), was promised certain features, and they still aren't available. It
doesn't matter to me what/who the company is...whether it's a car dealership, an electronics company, or a specific software, when I don't receive what I pay
for it is reason for great disappointment.Bob: It's good to hear that the release is imminent. As for which resources I’d like to use, I had a great
number of resources from Still Truth and other sites. If I’m reading your post correctly it sounds
like these may not import into Logos 4 due to the formatting of those files.
If this is the case, I’m sure somebody else will eventually update
similar resources to be made available in the new format, but this sharing functionality
won’t be available at the start.
(Perhaps I'll even take a stab as updating some of them, as I'm not the kind of person who simply expects something for nothing.) Nevertheless, having these resources on-hand is what I've most been waiting for, and while some features may be beneficial, it appears it will be lacking the functionality that would be most useful for my needs. If I'm incorrect in this understanding, please let us know. If I am correct, my thoughts on this are already well documented in this thread and I see no real purpose of detailing them further...0 -
Since the new PBB will rely on .docx files, are we to assume that Logos tagging will be done by some type of "style" format in Word? My guess is it's not as simple as typing in a certain block reference (such as [LogosRef]MT 1:1-5[/LogosRef]), otherwise it would be easy to import from non .docx files. So if that's true, will we be able to create some type of macro using VBA to easily tag a document? I wasn't around when the old PBB's were created, so I have no reference for this at all. But I have good experience creating macros using VBA in the past for other purposes, so I'm hoping it will be possible to do something similar. Of course, I'm also now a Mac user, so that would mean I need to upgrade to Office 2011 to have VBA capabilities.
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
0 -
Just out of curiosity, for those who are anxiously awaiting PBB, what are you waiting for? The ability to create PBB books? Or the ability to read them? And if "read", which ones, from where?
The feedback I receive via email, my website and a few here in the forums indicates that there is at least a swath of users who desire to bring the 1000+ PBB's hosted on StillTruth.com into L4. I realize that technically they won't be able to until they are re-compiled for L4, but I get the feeling that it's those particular collections that have the attention of many.That is so. Sharing will have to be enabled for this to be possible. If sharing is another year off, the immediate availability of PBB is moot for many of us.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
That is so. Sharing will have to be enabled for this to be possible. If sharing is another year off, the immediate availability of PBB is moot for many of us.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we are able to create PBB's on our own computer and integrate them into our own Logos library, what's to stop a third-party site (like Still Truth) from sharing those PBB's? Just because an official Logos PBB marketplace isn't opened up doesn't mean we couldn't still share the files. Worst case scenario, you provide a link to the Word document and let people hit the 'compile' button themselves.
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
0 -
Because we don't know all the behind-the scenes stuff I can only speculate (it has never stopped me before.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we are able to create PBB's on our own computer and integrate them into our own Logos library, what's to stop a third-party site (like Still Truth) from sharing those PBB's?
Nothing I can think of, IF we can get them in Logos 4 complied format.
We have recently been told by Bob Pritchet the basis for the Logos 4 PBBs will be Word instead of the old html format used in Libronix. That is good news to me, a Windows user. I heard Jack mention it is a bad thing for Mac users. Once a book is compiled it would seem the author should be allowed to give it to as many Logos users as s/he wants to. Apple is trying to set a precedent to prevent that but I believe it will backfire on them.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Of course, I'm also now a Mac user, so that would mean I need to upgrade to Office 2011 to have VBA capabilities.
Currently Office 2011 for Mac does not support Right to Left languages (e.g. Hebrew).
LibreOffice may be a docx alternative on Mac (supports Hebrew), but does not support VBA (can use 4 other scripting languages => http://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Scripting )
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
if we are able to create PBB's on our own computer and integrate them into our own Logos library, what's to stop a third-party site (like Still Truth) from sharing those PBB's?
if the compiled PBB format file contains a reference to your author key (or Logos ID) and the reader functionality of the software compares that with the installed key or ID, it's pointless to share the PBB format files. I understand the current or past functionality in Logos3 to work somehow along these lines for the "private PBBs".
scenario, you provide a link to the Word document and let people hit the 'compile' button themselves.
this is something quite different and it may work (same if you go to CCEL or project gutenberg or any other place where PD resources are hosted). The point is that there are no Word files on stilltruth - those people that generated the open readable Logos 3 PBBs or others may choose to generate appropriately tagged Word files for themselves and others. It seems that it is not trivial to reverse engineer them out of old PBBs.
When this feature comes, I hope they will provide reader keys as an addin (or for free?) for those of us that are new to the PBB scene.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
but I get the feeling that it's those particular collections that have the attention of many.
Bingo. [Y]
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
0 -
Just because an official Logos PBB marketplace isn't opened up doesn't mean we couldn't still share the files.
Bob indicated that sharing of PBB files would come later (with note files, I assume). If each PBB resource is in fact saved as a separate resource file then we should be able to share them. I suppose we'd have to download them and SCAN them in.
I don't know if that is going to be the case, but would like to know, as it will make PBB files useful for me from the start.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0
