Outdated and expensive

Super Tramp said:

At the risk of evoking a bad response from an MVP trained in linguistics & philology, Is the correct word not "exegeses" rather than "exegeters?"

"Exegesis" is the practice of explicating a text.  I think she was referring to those who practice exegesis. 

exegete (ˈɛksɪˌdʒiːt) or exegetist (ˌɛksɪˈdʒiːtɪst -ˈdʒɛt-) n a person who practises exegesis [c18: from Greek exēgētēs, from exēgeisthai to interpret; see exegesis]

Collins English Dictionary.  

8th ed., Complete & unabridged ed. Glasgow: HarperCollins, 2006.

MJ. Smith said:

Of the two, the nay sayers are the more annoying
in their abuse of objective information; the fan boys more dangerous in
the responses they evoke. I hope they are both better exegeters of
Scripture than they are of forum posts.

First, diagram the last sentence in MJ's quote above. Then go find "exegeters" in any reference other than the urban dictionary. It's not there. I believe MJ  chose this word for the same reason she uses "idjiot", or however she spells it. [:O]

George Somsel said:

"Exegesis" is the practice of explicating a text. 

True, and "exegeses" is the plural of "exegete." And an "exegete" is a person who does "exegesis." An "exegeter" is closer to a sports hero named Jeeter or a dude that casts demons out.

Denise Barnhart said:

Well, this thread has been quite illuminating.

I aim to educate and enlighten. Failing that, I will settle for amuse and annoy. [C]

Super Tramp said:

I aim to educate and enlighten. Failing that, I will settle for amuse and annoy.

But you can't annoy half as effectively as I can.  Nah, nah, nah.  [:P]  [:D]

Super Tramp said:

Todd Phillips said:

alabama24 said:

Get a $70 kindle. It would be a better reader.

Not if you want to read Logos books.

I know very little about the Kindle other than I really like the eInk because I can read it so easily.

How much of my Logos library can be accessed from Biblia.com on a Kindle ? I read something about using a Kindle 3G to access websites other than Amazon's.

 

I just got my Kindle keyboard a couple of weeks ago. Yes I can access my Logos books on it via Biblia.com and library.logos.com using the wireless connection.
Use your computer to sign into these sites and see how much of your library would be available to read on a Kindle. I have a large library and 94 percent of it is available.

 

You can use the experimental browser to log into the sites.

I like using Biblia.com the best in "mobile view" since I can change the font size and it makes my Logos resources more like the other books that you can read on the Kindle. The drawback is moving from one screen to the next as you have to tab the "arrow cursor" to be over the arrows that advance biblia to the next screen. Advancing down the same screen works well with the "next page" "previous page" buttons.  I have done passage guides using library.logos.com and they have worked fine.  It takes some getting use to the Kindles way of navigating the pages, but it works and the more I use it the easier it seems to get.  For a reader I am really liking it.  The e-ink is much more enjoyable than a back lit screen.

Photos below are of the Kindle using the experimental browser logged into biblia.com. The book is ICC Romans by Cranfield. The first one is at 200% the second one is at 300%

 

I'm REALLY LIKING IT.

I can access every website that I have tried using the browser with my home wireless router.

 

I have copied this post to a new tread here. Since it really doesn't have anything to do with this treads topic.

George Somsel said:

OK, cough it up. How do I connect? I haven't figured that out yet and I don't recall seeing any instructions on it (And you think Logos doesn't provide enough documentation? ).

 

Posted this in the other thread also...

Press the Menu button (you can see this button in the photos in the top posting) and the following shot will pop up:

Select Experimental and it will take you to:

Select Launch Browser and it will search out nearby wireless routers. My home wireless router is password protected, so I had to put in the password to access it.

From there you can launch the browser and login to Biblia.com [:D]

 

George Somsel said:

How do you enter the password?

 

Mine is already set-up so in looking at it, I would have to go to the Settings line just above the Experimental line.  You should see a Wi-Fi Settings area...select "View" and then have it scan for your available Wi-Fi networks.  Select "Connect" and follow the prompts to enter your password. I think you would probably have to do this with any other Wi-Fi connection to select it if you were away from home.

 

EDIT: You can go to the Amazon website and type "Kindle Support" and then click the Kindle Support link on the top item. It will take you to all the information for the different Kindles. Select your model from the topics column on the left and then select the Wireless Settings Link and it takes you through the entire set-up.

Bill Moore said:

The really nice thing about the Kindle 3 (now called Kindle Keyboard) is that the WiFi/3G version can connect to internet wherever you have a WiFi or 3G signal. My understanding is that the new Kindle Touch WiFi/3G has the 3G restricted to the Amazon Store and Wikipedia.

Bill, do you know if the Kindle DX has an open browser like the Kindle Keyboard or is it locked to just Wikipedia & Kindlestore like the Touch? And does anybody think the larger screen is worth almost twice the price?

Super Tramp said:

Bill Moore said:

The really nice thing about the Kindle 3 (now called Kindle Keyboard) is that the WiFi/3G version can connect to internet wherever you have a WiFi or 3G signal. My understanding is that the new Kindle Touch WiFi/3G has the 3G restricted to the Amazon Store and Wikipedia.

Bill, do you know if the Kindle DX has an open browser like the Kindle Keyboard or is it locked to just Wikipedia & Kindlestore like the Touch? And does anybody think the larger screen is worth almost twice the price?

Hi Matthew. The Kindle DX is unrestricted 3G, especially so since it doesn't have WiFi. Whether the screen is worth twice the price or not--I don't know. I would rather read e-ink, but the price of the DX starts getting it into the 10" tablet prices, where there's much more versatility.

The great thing about the DX is its being able to display full and readable PDF's. They can be read on a 6" screen but with a good deal of fairly clumsy scrolling.

There is a forum called Kindle Boards with a lot of helpful folks.

Peter Bowers said:

Yes, he's only in 7th grade.  My concern is that he really uses that computer more than I do and installing Logos would be for him to use it more than I do...  So I'm not sure I could legitimately say I'm the primary user.  Is the license such that within a family i would be legitimate?

You must purchase the Portfolio edition for him — NOT!  [:D]  Yes, so long as he lives under your roof and isn't employed in an occupatioin requiring access to a theological library, he (and your wife) are OK to use it.

Mike Binks said:

I think that he would say that as an occasional user of the computer you would not be defrauding Logos (especially if you are the man paying the bills). It might become a different matter when No. 1 son goes off to University - but that may be little way off yet.

And here he is saying almost exactly that: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/341/3265.aspx#3265

Outdated and expensive?  No way!  My brother just started building his Logos library with some inexpensive Libronix titles and free resources and has spent less than $100.  He downloaded the free engine and has a nice starter setup.  He can also access his resources on his iPad and iPhone.  He will be adding the Bible Study Library and other selected resources soon to get more functionality.   Can you spend a fortune on Logos?  Of course.  But to be able to get its state-of-the-art functionality at minimal cost is truly a blessing!

What do You all think? Should I go for the ICC Upgrade? I have 3 ICC volumes since before (2 Cor 1-7 & Pastorals in Logos, Is 44:24-55:13 as printed matter). Other commentaries that I have include for example Hermeneia. I'm trying to discuss this at: http://www.christianforums.com/t7736387-post62809153/#poststop and http://www.christianforums.com/t7736387-post62936162/#poststop (both those links are in the same thread) but haven't got many answers. You can post here or at Christianforums:
Super Tramp wrote the following post at Thu, Nov 17 2011 9:47 PM:

Super Tramp said:

I am not saying the following is part of Logos marketing philosophy BUT......

General Motors builds a very limited number of Corvettes. They could build a lot more and still sell every one of them. When I go to the local dealer's showroom I discover he has only been allotted one or two for the model year. Most buyers have to place an order well in advance to get one. The ICC was the flagship for expensive commentary sets. The pricing seems arbitrary since it is a public domain content. Could it be Logos only needs a small number of sales to meet their projected profit margin for that resource?  Or is it the ICC does not bring in enough in sales at a lower price to meet projected revenue? There is a balance somewhere in between the "retail" price and the price we are willing to pay.

If John MacArthur decided to charge $50 for each book he writes and never discount them, a lot of people would refuse to pay that price. But rest assured, some would pay upwards of that and buy as many books as he will publish. Some will buy a Corvette regardless of the price. Others will buy ICC at whatever Logos asks. Not everybody is strapped for cash, just 99% of us are. Logos may be experimenting with different titles in different marketing models to position for the uncertain future of eBooks:

Dean053 said:

but I  wouldn't think it's a particularly strong selling point for Logos.

Super Tramp wrote the following post at Nov 17. 2011 on the first page:

Super Tramp said:

Thanks for asking. I think your perspective is a little skewed today:

Gene Britton said:

Is this just me and am I being too critical?

 

Super Tramp said:

That is a sale price. [...] Does any other Bible study software offer a refined (legible & tagged) version of ICC?:

Gene Britton said:

like this morning the ICC commentary set at 1200

 

Should I get the RSV NT RI? It's a bit expensive, and maybe it will be included in L6 (although I think I will wait for the next few versions and never be upgrading to L6)?:

Super Tramp said:

Many have complained they thought Logos already has too many irons in the fire. Funny thing is, each of us wants our iron to be the one being heated. I personally have no need whatsoever for Proclaim. I don't own an iPad or Android (yet) and I don't think Logos should try to replicate the desktop on a handheld. I am still using OneNote, so notes in Logos is not my pet project either:

Gene Britton said:

as of late it appears to me that the product is outdated and too expensive.

 

Logos seems to be attempting to be all things to all Bible students. There are efforts to offer many scholarly works (Brill, T&T/Clark, SPCK, Baker Academic.) There are efforts to publish multilingual works (Chinese, Korean, Czech, Russian, Spanish.) They keep up with the the latest in manuscript & original language studies (Dead Sea Scrolls, SEBS, Reverse Interlinears, Near Eastern documents.) Logos moved to the cloud based syncing model so all of your devices will have parallel access. They are reaching out to Women, Catholics, many smaller denominations, and some esoteric readers. They seem to be set on publishing every commentary ever printed. The prolific release of resources indicates Logos does not expect for each of us to buy everything they produce. If one becomes silly enough to want everything,  (think  Matthew C Jones &  Lynden Williams & Rosie) they will quickly be drowned in the flood of new releases. But, oh, what a nice way to go:

Gene Britton said:

My appeal is that the company will energize its efforts to become the state of the art leader that it once was

George Somsel said:

Outdated? 

The only outdated thing is this thread (from Nov 2011)

In the Christianforums -thread, I said that I don't know Gk yet to fully use these technical commentaries such as ICC. With the ICC Upgrade I would get a few more interesting volumes that focus a lot on grammar. I guess I'm just wondering whether I'll be able to use them after a few years of studies and whether it's a good idea to get the whole Upgrade now, or whether I should wait and see which volumes exactly I need?

I know colleges usually go through Jn. So the volume on Jn 1-5 would be welcome, but is it essential? I have for example A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament but I guess it's too brief in college?

Well I don't know about that part about getting something instead - I don't think I will. I can't afford both technical and non-technical (i.e. grammar-less) even in the long run. (Related: btw, I won't be using the student-discount while in college because licenses for resources bought with Logos student discount can't be transferred to anyone. I may still be somewhat young, 31, but I think ahead and want to be able to transfer everything: books, notes and highlightings to a friend when I get too old a long while from now):

George Somsel said:

For those who don't know the biblical languages, I would recommend an author who is knowledgeable in the languages but who doesn't concentrate exclusively on them.

I started to ask on the previous page for advise about my open pre-pub orders!

Anyone with a piece of advice on what I should do about these orders? Here's a quote from http://www.christianforums.com/t7736387-post62981989/#post62981989:

Unix said:

I would be glad if someone pops in an encourages me to cancel for example these:

• International Critical Commentary Upgrade Collection (6 vols.) $149.95
• Reverse Interlinear Revised Standard Version New Testament $49.95 (that's just the Gk data, the English would not go away if canceling)
• Justpeace Ethics $10.95
• The Works of Aristotle (12 vols.) $40

I'm a bit unwilling to cancel:

• Catholic Practicum
• Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology of Historical Sources (4 vols.)

... but if some more people would bother to convince me to give up on them, I'm all ears!

As I've ordered a very cheap copy of the first volume that includes Apostolic Fathers and Origen in Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology of Historical Sources (4 vols.), I've started to think that I'll cancel it. I'm however more worried about the cost for the ICC Upgrade and whether I'll ever be able to use it.

Michael Childs said:

Outdated?  Compared to what?  Perhaps I am ignorant, but I prefer Logos to any other Bible Software that I know.  I can't agree that it is outdated.  There are things I wish they would improve - speed, personal books on the iPad, etc.  But I don't know anyone who does it better.

Expensive?  You bet.  Books are expensive whether paper books or electronic books like Logos.  Would your ICC set be cheaper in paper?  I don't think so.  Would it be as useful in paper?  I don't think so.

Of course, everyone's opinion is their own, and you are the expert on your opinion.  I am the expert on my opinion.  And for what it's worth, this is it.

 

I don't believe he was characterizing Logos.  What he considered outdated and expensive was the ICC.

Unix said:

I won't be blaiming anyone and I won't regret if I cancel some of these, especially the expensive ones. What I will regret is if I don't cancel.

Hi Unix, please excuse me if I'm butting in and you think it's not my business but I can't help but to reiterate (slightly differently) the point that "Rosie and others who agreed with Rosie" were making.

I'll begin by using that ol’ time honored argument my Mom always used - “So if all your friends wanted to jump off a cliff, you would join them?”

It doesn't matter that you won't be blaming anyone, that's not the point. The point is you have got to make your own decisions based on your rationale. You really shouldn't be expecting others to correctly judge on what's the best course of action for you, because different people have different tastes and standards and expect different value from purchases especially highly subjective things like books, theology and opinions! And nobody knows better than you about your budget limitations and how much you can afford to spend now or in the near future.

Just a friendly advise that you can of course simply ignore if you wish. Cheers.

What I'm wondering is if these ICC volumes can be effectively used for its purpose, that's the criteria I'm trying to use when selecting commentaries.

• I'm keen on reading the introductions in ICC. My library, including my print library, has too few or too short introductions when it comes to most of the books of the Bible. (Although in some cases I don't study the Bible book.)
• Like I already said, I would greatly benefit from Gk Jn and such when studying Gk, as Jn is a standard text in colleges.
• I won't be studying almost any Hebrew and only passage-specific, but I realize that some parts of the OT are important, and later on after I've learned Gk I will be learning LXX-Gk and I see the Septuagint as very valuable and I have a critical text with apparatus.

(It's leaning towards keeping the ICC Upgrade order. But I welcome being persuaded to the opposite because I'm even more concerned about saving money for the future. I've become more and more aware of that commentaries can become dated at some point, so I'm gearing my purchases towards recently published commentaries only, with one recent exception: the UBS Handbook New Testament set which I thought was so unique and for example contains specific information about English Bible versions that I'm very interested in such as the Revised English Bible and RSV):

Sleiman said:

The point is you have got to make your own decisions based on your rationale. You really shouldn't be expecting others to correctly judge on what's the best course of action for you, because different people have different tastes and standards and expect different value from purchases especially highly subjective things like books, theology and opinions!

 

Regarding the other orders, as it's unrelated to this thread, preferably post in the Christianforums -thread: Help me decide which book orders to cancel! Registration on the forum is free. Deleting Your account is not possible. (Changing username is possible. To get rid of ads You have to pay a fee to Christianforums or have an add-on to Your Firefox or Chrome browser.)

EDIT: I just promised my best friend to cancel orders for hundreds of $. I just have too many open and too much on Christianity. I may for example cancel Aristotle, International Critical Commentary Upgrade, Worship in the Early Church, Justpeace Ethics, Reverse Interlinear RSV New Testament. And I may return The Sin Nature if it teaches Original Sin. Here are all my open ones:

Unix, my suggestion to you would be to stop being so impulsive about ordering pre-pubs, and then you won't have such a quandary about cancelling some of them.

Unix said:

I would add to your list the classic studies on the Apocrypha. But then I'm from a protestant tradition. I'm also on the fence RE the usefulness of Hermeneia.

I bought the Hermeneia Upgrade 3 for the pre-pub price. And it's leaning toward getting LSJ in Logos - it would also be good for The Works of Aristotle.
Out of items that ship within a month, I'm unsure what to do about The Works of Aristotle (June 3.) and Classic Commentaries and Studies on the Biblical Apocrypha/Deuterocanon (today). Please someone advice me!

I have started a poll about this: Should I cancel Works of
Aristotle and/or Classic studies on the Deuterocanonicals?:

abondservant said:

I would add to your list the classic studies on the Apocrypha. But then I'm from a protestant tradition. I'm also on the fence RE the usefulness of Hermeneia.

I did a calculation: I added the cost for the remaining orders, including one that I paid on April 15. 2013, that were the most impulsive (but included only half of the cost for Worship in the Early Church: an Anthology because I'll probably cancel it and ½ of RI RSV NT because it would be quite useful), including manual labour fee 10% for the orders that ship soon (I will get rid of that fee once the "Pastor's Piggy-bank" is live), and it totalled: $449.79 including a few recent pre-pub orders that I've placed:

Rosie Perera said:

Unix, my suggestion to you would be to stop being so impulsive about ordering pre-pubs,

EDIT: I just made a budget for the next 12 years starting today, excluding my home. My income during that period (I'm sure about this), will be $100,000:

• Books (both printed matter and in Bible study softwares, not loose-leaf books or photocopying costs), Bible study softwares, word processing softwares and batteries for my laptops and cellular phone: maximally 4% of my income during 12 years, i.e. $4000.
• Cars, car repairs, motorcycle repair (I have a "light" motorcycle, the repair costs for it will be very low), and assembling the moped, excluding fuel and tyres: €2,000-€3,500 = ($2570.80-$4498.90).
• Parking, storage (usually 0) and moving furniture, maximally €9,100 = ($11,697.14).
• Currency exchange rate this hour: €1 = $1.2854

Summary: a maximum share of 20% of my income should go to those things altogether, during the next 12 years starting today. Very tight budget indeed! (Currently I have pedicabs that take up a whole lot of space, I've been parking them for free for a few years but that may end this year.)

I started a discussion: Discuss my budget for treats on another forum!

[post user="Unix"]I'm currently also evaluating a set on the OT. It's introductions. It's: Handbook on the Old Testament Series (4 vols.) ... what do You think of it, if You have it?[/post]

Unix, I'll mail you a quarter to help you in your decision-making.  Flip it—heads you buy it; tails you don't.

Unix said:

I am reading one volume in the set, but don't know what to make of it, and 2005 feels a bit old (the Wisdom volume)

There is a reason they call it the "Wisdom of the Ages." A commentary that is any newer is not going to have any new revelation. The idea that modern commentaries are always better than older ones is erroneous. Many commentary authors of days gone by were imminent eminent scholars. (Early Church Fathers, Luther, Calvin, etc.) Most of the commentaries listed on BestCommentaries.com are older than 2005. You might want to expand your horizons of consideration. BestCommentaries.com is a good place to start. 

Thought for the day:

• If we follow the Biblical admonition to number our days Psalm 90:12, and
• We live an average lifespan of 70 years (Psalm 90:10)
• How many days do you have left?    70 years - your current age x 365 days
• Sobering, isn't it?

Don't worry about the copyright dates of your commentaries. Find good books and stick with them.