Mormon Studies Collection
http://www.logos.com/product/16021/mormon-studies-collection
On community pricing.
Oh my word!
How cool is this, where else but Logos could you get such a marvelous resource without any risk that a penny will go to the LDS.
This is really exiting.
Comments
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Let's pick a low price and all go in together at that price point, so we can keep this from getting out of hand. Right now the projected price is right at the higher end of the spectrum, but it's early in the game so a few low bids could change that.
I bid $25. I could go up to $30 but I don't think more than that. What saith the hivemind?
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me in @ $35. once a "go", it should go down $5 or $10.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Mitchell Ebbott said:
Let's pick a low price and all go in together at that price point, so we can keep this from getting out of hand. Right now the projected price is right at the higher end of the spectrum, but it's early in the game so a few low bids could change that.
I bid $25. I could go up to $30 but I don't think more than that. What saith the hivemind?
The lower the better but if people always lowball it will never move into production, my personal view is that a realistic price is anywhere over $50. Just look at what you are getting here.
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Mike Pettit said:
The lower the better but if people always lowball it will never move into production, my personal view is that a realistic price is anywhere over $50. Just look at what you are getting here.
Point taken but if you look at the spectrum they offer, this is one of the lower prices set to produce (which makes sense, if my assumption is correct that these works don't often directly reference Scripture or other Logos-offered books). Generally if something starts peaking around 1/3 of the way up the scale it will make it into production. Especially for something like this where it's all public domain, you're not going to get a lot of "sure, why not" bids at $50.
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Mitchell Ebbott said:
Point taken but if you look at the spectrum they offer, this is one of the lower prices set to produce (which makes sense, if my assumption is correct that these works don't often directly reference Scripture or other Logos-offered books).
I would think that these works will reference the book of Mormon extensively (which will itself form part of this collection) which presumbably will have to be referenced, hopefully we will find out soon. It will be rather fun wondering which book of Mormon to prioritize, I never thought I would be saying that.
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Was hoping to see "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce McConkie (sp), but it is probably still in copyright.
In at $30
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Mike Pettit said:
http://www.logos.com/product/16021/mormon-studies-collection
On community pricing.
Oh my word!
How cool is this, where else but Logos could you get such a marvelous resource without any risk that a penny will go to the LDS.
This is really exiting.
I know!! The minute I saw the post flash on my newsreader, I rushed to the forums to post in excitement! I really want to see this get published soon, it would be an amazingly helpful resource for my almost daily conversations with LDS here. I am in at $30 (the current suggested price.) Let's see if we can't get this pushed through fast!
Macbook Pro | OSX 10.6.8 | 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 | 4 GB Ram | 320 GB HDD
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Overview
At the turn of nineteenth-century came America's second Great
Awakening. Out of the ashes of this second awakening arose what would
eventually become one of America's largest and somewhat controversial
churches, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."...and somewhat controversial..." [:|]
Only somewhat...? Overall description and book descriptions are too modest IMO and may cause some to think Logos is legitimizing Mormonism.
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J. Morris said:
Overview
At the turn of nineteenth-century came America's second Great
Awakening. Out of the ashes of this second awakening arose what would
eventually become one of America's largest and somewhat controversial
churches, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."...and somewhat controversial..."
Only somewhat...? Overall description and book descriptions are too modest IMO and may cause some to think Logos is legitimizing Mormonism.
It does come with a disclaimer:
NOTE: Logos Bible Software does not endorse the teachings in the Mormon Studies Collection. TheMormon Studies Collection is another tool for research within your library—especially for apologetics and comparative studies. Logos strives to carry texts that will allow you to better study the Word of God.
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@ $25
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I'm in at $30.
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I’m impressed that Logos would be willing to put up the Book of Mormon for sale. I hope that with this set of reference books that people will read the whole verse from the Book of Mormon, or sermon, from the Journal of Discourses, and not the little blurb that they might read from a book that is against the LDS church.0 -
J Hale said:
I hope that with this set of reference books that people will read the whole verse from the Book of Mormon, or sermon, from the Journal of Discourses, and not the little blurb that they might read from a book that is against the LDS church.
I have always found it helpful to go directly to the source material when trying to discover what is really said. Not all critics are informed or honest.. (This goes for any controversial discussions.)
I have owned the Journal of Discourses as well as D&C, Pearl of Great Price, and Book of Mormon in my digital library for a few years. It will be nice to have much of the material in my Logos library.
edit: I am in for $20 to start $30 and will raise it as necessary near closing.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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[Y]
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Yes, to learn more about what this “somewhat controversial church” says in its own words.
This collection contains The Book of Mormon [1830, 1921], The Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [1918], and The Pearl of Great Price [1878]. Logos might want to try contacting this church to see if they will allow Logos to also add the current versions of those resources.
This is a large church, 14.1 million members – They have a large library that could use the technology of Logos 4.[they also already have their 'Scriptures' in E-book formats]
Also the somewhat controversial "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce McConkie had its initial publication in 1959 [still in (c)]
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And a big thanks to Peter Cellini [:D]
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Dennis Parish said:
And a big thanks to Peter Cellini
Maybe he should have suggested a Mormon base package.
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25 here....
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J Hale said:
I’m impressed that Logos would be willing to put up the Book of Mormon for sale. I hope that with this set of reference books that people will read the whole verse from the Book of Mormon, or sermon, from the Journal of Discourses, and not the little blurb that they might read from a book that is against the LDS church.
Well, I hope they will read "The Pearl of Great Price" and the many other extreme teachings of Joseph Smith and B. Young which contain their teachings that are far outside orthodox Christian boundaries.
Not intended as an attack, but this is a chance to see for oneself what the Mormon faith teaches, and its most unusual teachings are not in the Book of Mormon.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
David Ames said:
This is a large church, 14.1 million members – They have a large library that could use the technology of Logos 4. [they also already have their 'Scriptures' in E-book formats]
The first LDS Scriptures library used the old Infobase search system. It was difficult to use and buggy on most systems. It was revamped later and is actually usable now. But if the resources were available in Logos it would be another great improvement.
I believe the Mormon church would not be very objectionable to publishing in Logos 4 format. They seem more willing to get their message out than other groups.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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You are surprised? They offer the even more controversial Catholic collection.J. Morris said:one of America's largest and somewhat controversial
churches, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."...and somewhat controversial..."
Only somewhat...? Overall description and book descriptions are too modest IMO and may cause some to think Logos is legitimizing Mormonism.
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Has it occurred to you that there are Mormon users of Logos? Just saying - don't assume that it's only of use for apologetics. We don't want to make Mormons stay in the "closet".
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site. I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude. But this site is not about that. Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc. In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them. Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned. Peace.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site. I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude. But this site is not about that. Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc. In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them. Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned. Peace.
I am all for being nice to everyone and not seeking to cause offence when it can be avoided but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong. When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons. Coversely the view of a Mormon on Hambergers and fries is as likely to be as valid as anyone here, but the two situations are not analogous.
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" the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my
humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base
for a whole host of reasons."Indeed. Equally, WRT the value of a Catholic collection, the view of a Catholic should (in my
humble opinion) be of little weight. And it goes without saying that the view of a Jew should be of little weight in evaluating the value of a Jewish Collection. With a Muslim collection, we can't trust them at all, can we? And when we get to Reformed collections, we should not consult anyone but non-reformed! [6]Right?
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Ben said:
" the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons."
Indeed. Equally, WRT the value of a Catholic collection, the view of a Catholic should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight. And it goes without saying that the view of a Jew should be of little weight in evaluating the value of a Jewish Collection. With a Muslim collection, we can't trust them at all, can we? And when we get to Reformed collections, we should not consult anyone but non-reformed!
Right?
Wrong, but you knew that anyway, trust is not a concept I even thought of, it is all about being able to discuss the matter sensibly and I do not mean that in a nasty way, I mean that within the context being able to understand the issues.
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Logos has morphed into something far removed from Bible Software. Offering resources that discuss varied interpretations, and the theologies that spring from them, is the work of a Bible Software Company.Dan DeVilder said:I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site. I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude. But this site is not about that.
However, Offering resources that claim to be an alternative to/replacement of the Bible steps over the line. The firm is now a Bible Alternative Software Company.
From the LDS website:
"The Book of Mormon is the word of God, like the Bible. It is Holy Scripture, with form and content similar to that of the Bible."
The Book of Mormon is but one such "Alternative Bible" offered by Logos.
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Mike Pettit said:
but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong
This is not my experience. I find that I have to read and listen neutrally in order to understand another position and make a judgment on it. Otherwise I act out of prejudice (pre-judgment) not knowledge. Prejudice is rarely effective communication.
About a week ago, I found a statement that was flagrantly, factually wrong - it claimed that there were no cases of X in the New Testament. The next book I looked in had a 14 page list of X's in the New Testament. Should I blame Logos for spreading false information? No, I simply recognize that author Y and perhaps publisher Z need to be double checked on their "facts".
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Mike Pettit said:
but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong
This is not my experience. I find that I have to read and listen neutrally in order to understand another position and make a judgment on it. Otherwise I act out of prejudice (pre-judgment) not knowledge. Prejudice is rarely effective communication.
I agree whole heartedly that you have to understand the other sides position and to do so you have to be scrupulously fair but fairness is very different to neutrality. Whether you agree with him or not Van Til does offer some fascinating insights into what I am seeking to express and I am certainly not advocating prejudice and in everything we should be civil.
If the book of Mormon is or indeed may be inspired then Christian revelation is false, in that way I cannot see neutrality when discussing the value of the document.
Saying that you will notice that I verge on being giddy with delight at the prospect of this package and if Mormoms get exposed to biblical truth through this publication all the better, if not I still think it is a good idea as knowledge is a noble end in itself within appropriate confines which depends on the attitude of the student, not the subject itself.
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Willard Scott said:
Offering resources that claim to be an alternative to/replacement of the Bible steps over the line. The company is now a Bible Alternative Software firm.
Well, so does the Quran, and all the dozens (or more likely hundreds) of Hindu, Buddhist, Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Canaanite, you name it, texts that Logos has offered for years -- and I've yet to see anyone rage against Canaanite Myths and Legends. Even Jewish texts are 'alternative' in that they reject the New Testament. So I guess according to your definition Logos has been a "Bible Alternative Software firm" for a very long time, and I don't expect it will change anytime soon.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Thankful for the immense variety of digital resources available for use in Logos Bible Software: much to research, study, ponder, and pray.
Thankful Logos has resources that are available in many seminary libraries; looking forward to adding more digital resources to my Logos library.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Mike Pettit said:
When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base
You are half right, at best.
[Y] What a Mormon thinks of this collection is really not all that big a deal to you (assuming you are not Mormon.)
[N] Logos should only be concerned with the opinions of users that will actually buy the resource. That group could include Mormons, non-Mormons, and possibly Orthodox Jewsish non-Mormons. The Mormon Studies Collection is a primary sources collection. It can have great value as an apologetics resource but it is not an apologetics collection. If a Logos user can not read the content and think for themselves, I suggest they go for some of the apologetics material and just trust their evaluations to be correct.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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What is lots of fun is following the footnotes in some ‘apologetics material’. Have found that some use secondary sources instead of the original. And some of those secondary sources are not too careful about what they quote.
What is also interesting is when ellipsis are used. With the form ‘xxx (…) yyy’. When used correctly the author is saying that even though ‘xxx’ and ‘yyy’ are separated they form one continuous thought as if the text between did not exist. That there is nothing in the span covered by (…) that changes the meaning. Many times I suspect that the author does not expect us to have a copy of the work quoted.
Always follow all of the footnotes to the originals (not just what the author added) or read the originals yourself. They hide many of their sins there in.0 -
David Ames said:
What is lots of fun is following the footnotes in some ‘apologetics material’. Have found that some use secondary sources instead of the original. And some of those secondary sources are not too careful about what they quote.
What is also interesting is when ellipsis are used. With the form ‘xxx (…) yyy’. When used correctly the author is saying that even though ‘xxx’ and ‘yyy’ are separated they form one continuous thought as if the text between did not exist. That there is nothing in the span covered by (…) that changes the meaning. Many times I suspect that the author does not expect us to have a copy of the work quoted.
Always follow all of the footnotes to the originals (not just what the author added) or read the originals yourself. They hide many of their sins there in.you are spot on. that's something I have noticed several times. I also note that I get a better feel for what a position is when I read the primary vs. the secondary. reading Bultmann was like that for me.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Mike Pettit said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site. I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude. But this site is not about that. Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc. In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them. Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned. Peace.
I am all for being nice to everyone and not seeking to cause offence when it can be avoided but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong. When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons. Coversely the view of a Mormon on Hambergers and fries is as likely to be as valid as anyone here, but the two situations are not analogous.
Mike, while I still stand by what I said, I was my own victim of skimming the thread and conflating my perception with other threads when I replied. Most of the conversation here was fairly sane. I was thinking of other threads that went over the top. whether or not the "two situations are analogous" or not, i suppose I can leave that to you, but my point is, this is a software company that helps with Bible and theology study. I have thousands of works in this, with which i agree and disagree. I get what will be helpful to me in my studies. I don't feel the need to rant against X, Y, or Z. I am trying to point out that what Logos offers does not change my viewpoint or theology, just by offering it. This website and forum IS kind of like the hamburger check-out line. It's about how to use the software and about the resources the software company is selling. it's not the Harvard Yard or Areopagus or Mel's Diner.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I think it is clear that Logos intends these resources to be used for apologetic reasons - much like with the Islamic collection. I would have an issue with Logos marketing and labeling the Book of Mormon as a "Christian" resource. However, they have not - so I am fine with this collection.
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Joshua G said:
I think it is clear that Logos intends these resources to be used for apologetic reasons - much like with the Islamic collection. I would have an issue with Logos marketing and labeling the Book of Mormon as a "Christian" resource. However, they have not - so I am fine with this collection.
Yes, I think it's OK on this basis. A concern I have though with this and the Islam and eastern resources is that a general search through one's library may give hits in these resources. If the resource title isn't a give away and the topic that is pulled up isn't way off, some people might end up absorbing non-mainstream-Christian teaching unintentionally.
It would be nice if resources like this could be compartmentalised so that they would only be searched if explicitly selected. I realise I could create a collection of "Mainstream Christian Resources" or similar and search that, but I tend to search my whole library and I guess many people do the same. I'm thinking that a checkbox option like full or restricted search, together with the ability to over-ride what resources go in these would satisfy people of theological persuasions.
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Question for thought: The date was sometime before 70 AD in a small store in Jerusalem. And a loyal long time customer noted that this new scroll called ‘The Good News’ by someone called Mark was for sale. It is not Jewish! At least the Karaites and the ones from Qumran pretended to be Jewish.
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Dan DeVilder said:Mike Pettit said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site. I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude. But this site is not about that. Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc. In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them. Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned. Peace.
I am all for being nice to everyone and not seeking to cause offence when it can be avoided but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong. When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons. Coversely the view of a Mormon on Hambergers and fries is as likely to be as valid as anyone here, but the two situations are not analogous.
Mike, while I still stand by what I said, I was my own victim of skimming the thread and conflating my perception with other threads when I replied. Most of the conversation here was fairly sane. I was thinking of other threads that went over the top. whether or not the "two situations are analogous" or not, i suppose I can leave that to you, but my point is, this is a software company that helps with Bible and theology study. I have thousands of works in this, with which i agree and disagree. I get what will be helpful to me in my studies. I don't feel the need to rant against X, Y, or Z. I am trying to point out that what Logos offers does not change my viewpoint or theology, just by offering it. This website and forum IS kind of like the hamburger check-out line. It's about how to use the software and about the resources the software company is selling. it's not the Harvard Yard or Areopagus or Mel's Diner.
Overall we find ourselves pretty much in happy agreement.
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BriM said:
It would be nice if resources like this could be compartmentalised so that they would only be searched if explicitly selected. I realise I could create a collection of "Mainstream Christian Resources" or similar and search that, but I tend to search my whole library and I guess many people do the same. I'm thinking that a checkbox option like full or restricted search, together with the ability to over-ride what resources go in these would satisfy people of theological persuasions.
Doing a search that's restricted to a collection is almost exactly what you just described there. I would just stick with that, personally I think having another function that's accomplishes the same thing in a slightly different way would only be confusing, besides cluttering the interface. To make it even easier, start the collection name with an asterisk (e.g. "*Resources I Agree With") so it comes up first in the list.
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BriM said:
A concern I have though with this and the Islam and eastern resources is that a general search through one's library may give hits in these resources. If the resource title isn't a give away and the topic that is pulled up isn't way off, some people might end up absorbing non-mainstream-Christian teaching unintentionally.
Then they would become victims of their own sloppy study habits. They also cannot have a firm grasp of their own beliefs if they are that easily swayed.
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Jack Caviness said:
Then they would become victims of their own sloppy study habits. They also cannot have a firm grasp of their own beliefs if they are that easily swayed.
Very well stated Jack. If I trusted every thing my resources said when I run a Logos search, I would be a very messed up and doctrinally confused individual. If I removed all resources from my Logos library that have some error in doctrine, I would have a one Book library left.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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The same with the Catholic Collection?Joshua G said:I think it is clear that Logos intends these resources to be used for apologetic reasons - much like with the Islamic collection. I would have an issue with Logos marketing and labeling the Book of Mormon as a "Christian" resource. However, they have not - so I am fine with this collection.
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Hey, Martin Luther was a Catholic!
I'm using "was" in a very strict sense here...
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