Money? Gratuity? Income gained from Logos Bible Software? -REALLY, Ya Don't say!

Sorry for the second, Dominic. But I typed logos bible software on youtube and got a few hundred hits, I watched a few and only a few, very few, offered for self-gain.

Thanks again for the comment.

toughski said:

Looks like a conversation with self

you posted so I doubt it's w/oneself.............

Thanks for your, well, comment.

Bill Coley said:

Room4more said:

First, I would like to express a Public Apology to Joe, since others seem to think that using his videos as an example was somehow accusatory. How they got this is well beyond me, it must have came from within their ownselves…….Joe, I am Sorry that I used your link as an example. 

 I can't think of a more authentic, heartfelt apology than one that's prompted by what "others seem to think;" it reminds me of the gracious regrets expressed by modern politicians who apologize "if" their words/actions offended anyone.

Oh sure, there *are* apologies rooted in personal confession, declarations from the apologetic that acknowledge mistakes made. And occasionally a politician *will* apologize in response to self-awareness of the error of his/her ways, rather than to the compulsion of outside agents. But ultimately, the most satisfying apologies are not those we make because *we* think we were wrong, but because "others seem to think" we were wrong.

Well done.

So then you think that I should not have apologized and just stated the obvious? wow, Interesting.

Hhhhmmm what about Justin? Does he not deserve a whopping-mega-on-your-knees Apology from us here? considering the content of the thread.........

Thanks.

[edit: Did you all watch the video link? or are you just posting....?]

MJ. Smith said:

Room4more said:

Does he not deserve a whopping-mega-on-your-knees Apology from us here?

No, he doesn't. This is a case of not doing enough research - don't assume! John F. is a former Logos employee who has Logos' blessing for his business. While he is not the official training company - that is Morris P. - he, like M[...]

The quick response is that we cast our own judgment on another for seeking to gain from a program we all use, but it is definitely done by others and we have no problem with it. Seems fairly evident that we act upon impulse of a ‘double-standard’.

Whether you feel that Justin deserves our heartfelt Apology or not will come from our own individual conscience, frankly I believe that he does.[sounds kurt, I know] So, hypothetically, if a former employee branches off and creates their own cd’s or the like and makes a personal profit – that is okay? But it is not okay for someone who has no affiliation past or present to do the same, but in a different capacity? Is this correct that I understand you are saying?

To some degree I can see where there is a two-fold effort from Justin’s work – we supply a basic docx and he in-turn does the serious work and we ‘pay’ him for it upon completion, fine. This brings to light the question of others – did they create the Logos Bible Software program, or are they using it to fulfill a need that others may have and reap the personal benefits of their labor? Seems to be in parallel as to what Justin offered – doesn’t it? If you can answer Yes, then we agree/If you answer No, then you should justify that answer…..

Troll, please. Do not insult my intelligence.

Yes, I would like to know how john could be a different case, seriously. Because he has seminars/webinars and from what I gathered from his site, Logos receives nothing from/for his work, but I could be wrong. Albeit, I do not really know, but it sure did not seem as such.

Also, it does seem to be true that he is still using Logos software for personal profit – this you cannot deny, since there is nothing on his site that accredits Logos as the recipient of the revenue received by John.

Don’t try to read what isn’t there, there is already too much of that going on now. Oh, by the way – Are you a Logos Employee that believes Justin is wrong and John is right?

Thanks.

Bill Coley said:

I did not say you shouldn't have apologized. I only applauded you for deciding whether to apologize on the basis of what "others seem to think" rather than your own self-awareness. Such high ground is rare in these morally turbulent times.

 

I wasn’t sure, so thanks for the clarity.

Bill Coley said:

If I read your original post correctly, whether Justin receives an apology will not depend on me, but on what others seem to think. I guess that means we have to wait for others to post.  (Though I'm not sure how many "others" constitute enough "others" to generate an apology. Nor am I sure how much in agreement those "others" have to be in order to deserve said apology. A challenging subject, isn't this?)

Unfortunately this is true. yet after all is said and done, I think that it would still be on an individual basis. I wouldn't want rufus to apologize because dufus did [rufus and dufus-Highlife magazine for kids (dates me i suppose)]

Thanks, Bill.

************

Michael said:

MJ. Smith said:

What puzzles me is how to deal with you, fairly and even-handedly. In many of your posts I read you as eager and willing to help others. But in some of your posts your language sounds like a troll itching for a fight.

Interesting point, The reason I avoided it in the first place was that a "troll looking for a fight would need to know another troll", and since I do not consider my self a troll I did not know what MJ was referring to, and i still don't. Just thought that this mindless dribble needed to be said.

Thanks Michael

*******

Also have noted that there has ne'er an HQ present yet.

MJ. Smith said:

Room4more said:

do not consider my self a troll I did not know what MJ was referring to

Actually, this answer tells me a great deal about how to deal with you. If you read carefully you will note that I did not say that you were a troll, I said that your language sometimes sounds like a troll. Because I am a stickler for logic and precision in language (yes, I know, sometimes to the extreme ), I would expect us to have difficulty communicating well. Put another way, I'll be more at ease discussing the cosine measure of similarity in information retrieval with my nerdie grandson than classifying Logos forum posts against guidelines with you. Note that the latter was the key issue, not profit.

MJ: Honestly, you haven’t the first clue as how to “deal with me”. You know very little about me.[personally, that sounds as if you are putting yourself above me...as if you are my Superior/?] And I still don’t know exactly what you are/were referring to, guess that means u’r smarter than me…oh well, life goes on.

hate to go backwards; but if the main issue was about the guidelines then why bash the guy for not knowing, but then that wasn’t at the forefront was it? [sounds like I am repeating myself again, where have i done that before] and eventually the latter did turn into an  issue that led to profit, about using Logos Bible Software as the vehicle that generated that personal profit.

Which brings up another point; How was Justin going to use the software for profit since he would have to do the meta-[addtexthere] for the docx first? And, only after you supplied him the docx to start from….since we no longer have access to his site I can not go back and check. Not evan in comparison to the making of CD"s and selling them for profit, is it? [this just keeps getting better by the post]

Boy, it would sure be nice to have HQ input here, again we are beginning to read about a squirrel chasing a rabbit.

Thanks Mj.

Emile, I do not even know where to begin..No, I m not missing anything...but you are doing it again: “”After having reviewed the site, I have to agree that this is discourteous, inappropriate, unprofessional, and in clear violation of forum rules... at best, deceptive (as fgh noted), and at worst, a violation of a number of copywrite and intellectual property rights as defined by both American and international law. This just isn't how to go about doing things, Justin, even if you have good intentions (which i will readily allow). Please show respect for Logos and their policies, and for your brothers in the Lord who lead Logos' business, by not embedding Logos' (or MP's) videos as if they were your own, stealing/altering the Logos logo, using their name, etc. I'd really like to suggest that you simply take down the site, but that is between you and the Lord. But i If you respect Logos, which I trust you do from the words on your site, please do try to show the company more professional courtesy””  ----[from other thread – note the similarities to this one current] -------What gives you the right to say what he[Justin] can or cannot do? As you are doing again here as well....What?

Are you employed by Logos, then turn him in!! You, personally, as stated above did more than just “...but some of us sought to make him aware that we felt it was inappropriate and unprofessional, and discourteous to Logos on several levels.” –If it was just a subtle link that was all that would be needed, then you should have just stated as such but you didn’t - you bit him off chewed him up and spit him out........We are not called to judge the actions of others  especially on this forum. Where did you get that? Not from here. Not from the ‘guidelines’. Your own words seem to contradict your own words.

By the way, they do monitor the forums, trust me they do. So, “But yes, I think Logos should evaluate the situation. How will they know that the situation exists? Should we go running secretly to Bob at Logos to "snitch" on Justin? No, of course not. If they monitor the forums, they can learn about the situation's existence through the comments of the posters. Instead, we went to Justin and explained what we felt was wrong and why. Biblical approach as I understand it (fine... others may disagree. that's okay). Justin responded appropriately, thanked folks for the input, took down the site, and indicated that he would consult Logos.” --Is deceptive and misleading to make it seem that we are obligated or are some sort of 'forum police', and you will note that HQ made NO comments on the other thread, and “reprimand” would be more appropriate. I think i would have done the same as Justin had you said to me what you said to him.

This thread was not meant to be an extension of the other, if it was then I would have added it to there, but rather the question was "Why can't Justin do the same?" clearly stated at the beginning. Did you miss it? It seems apparent that you did...

Don’t you find it rather strange or even the slightest sense of responsibility that he has not returned? I won’t comment on the rest....it just gives me the impression that you are attempting to justify you earlier words.......

Thanks Emile.

MJ. Smith said:

Room4more said:

By the way, they do monitor the forums, trust me they do.

While Bob P. mentioned after a previous blowup on the forums that they might have to hire a person to monitor the forums, I have no reason to believe that they are currently monitoring the forum beyond bugs, suggestions and reported abuse.

Room4more said:

note that HQ made NO comments on the other thread

Note that the original poster corrected the problem before Logos had any reason to be involved. No reprimand was needed. Justin appears to have been quite willing to let the subject drop. I would hope that he considers reviving the PB service with appropriate attention to the copyright issues.

Thanks MJ,

some might find this interesting reading: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6923.aspx?PageIndex=1 Please pay attention to reading page 2 and on, you may be enlightened.......NOTE: some of the links are slightly outdated since they go to the NEW page..and the statements associated do not match the link, the thread is just about three years old.....

Thanks MJ.

MJ. Smith said:

On what date did Logos add forum guidelines partially because of the lack of common sense and manners?

It's dated 2010, but i believe that it was a year, maybe two, before that......I really can't remember, but I do remember Phil from the ng's, which predates this forum by a few years.....

Hope this helps.