Logos was God

Gary
Gary Member Posts: 2
edited November 20 in English Forum

I have the full set of the Millenial Harbinger by Alexander Campbell.  Many years ago I read a series of articles written by Campbell explaining why the Holy Spirit chose the word, logos, as the expression of the preincarnate Jesus by the Apostle John.

I guess I dreamed it, since I can not find that series of articles.  Perhaps I am mistaken that Campbell wrote it, but I didn't think so.  Can anyone help steer me to these articles.  By the way, they were very dry, but well thought out.

Gary

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  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    I have the full set of the Millenial Harbinger by Alexander Campbell.  Many years ago I read a series of articles written by Campbell explaining why the Holy Spirit chose the word, logos, as the expression of the preincarnate Jesus by the Apostle John.

    I guess I dreamed it, since I can not find that series of articles.  Perhaps I am mistaken that Campbell wrote it, but I didn't think so.  Can anyone help steer me to these articles.  By the way, they were very dry, but well thought out.

    Gary


    Yeah, I can’t remember any right off-hand. But you are correct in that the logos [word] was God as in Jn1.1, but it was the logos as an expression by definition of the word logos. Sorry to say that Jesus was not preincarnate, if he was then many things that Jesus spoke that are recorded by John in the Gospel of John are contradictory to John's prologue, because if he was then there would be many others as well, all according to Scripture. But this is not a theological issue, purely Scripture.

    Hope this helps some.....

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  • Gary
    Gary Member Posts: 2

    I understand what you are saying about Jesus not being preincarnate, but I didn't know how to word the question without saying it like I did.  If I had used logos it would have been confusing.

    Anyway, I know I read something by Campbell that he wrote where he dealt with the choice of the word, logos.  I am beginning to think it wasn't in the Harbinger.

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Gary,

    No offense taken – none intended….Thanks

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  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Gary, try starting in "Philalethes Strictures on John" I think it is vII or vIII

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  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Gary, heres another section where he goes on:

    N0.2 VIII, Archippus----

    didn't read the whole thing...just skimmed it, I'll leave the reading to you...

    Hope this helps....

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  • Mike Pettit
    Mike Pettit Member Posts: 1,041 ✭✭

    Sorry to say that Jesus was not preincarnate, if he was then many things that Jesus spoke that are recorded by John in the Gospel of John are contradictory to John's prologue, because if he was then there would be many others as well, all according to Scripture. But this is not a theological issue, purely Scripture.

    Please at least try not to argue theological issues.

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Mike, nobody is arguing anything. Are u trying to start something? But if you want to say that theology rules over Scripture.....sounds like a personal issue to me..............you missed the bus.

    Hope this helps.

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  • Sogol
    Sogol Member Posts: 255

    Every Christian thinks that their theology is just Scripture. I'm yet to meet anyone who says, "My theology is a combination of philosophical speculation and unconscious personal biases."

    Logos can correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that their intention in discouraging theological discussions here really means that we should avoid making statements which we know are likely to provoke theological controversy/offense, and thus make these forums an unhappy place. I would hope that everyone would be informed enough to know of (and avoid) the obvious topics that are likely to stir up trouble.

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    So your's[Sogol] and Mike's suggestion to helping him[Gary] is where? You're attempting to derive to a conclusion base on your apparent personal desires..............

    Hope this helps.

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  • Mark O'Hearn
    Mark O'Hearn Member Posts: 103

    Confused.  Just for clarification for the casual reader of this thread, was it being corrected that Jesus as the God Man came into the world [existence] at a point in [our] time, but not that the Son (Word) wasn't eternally with the Father, right?  In other words, the Son of God didn't always exist as Jesus Christ.  It was just unclear to me.  A simple yes or no as I will adhere to the debate rules imposed at these forums.

    Regards

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Confused.  Just for clarification to the casual reader of this thread - Jesus is the Son of God, and the Son of God was eternally with the Father - opposed to what I believe was being corrected, that the Son (Word) came into the world at a point in time as the God Man, Christ Jesus.  Is this the point to the correction of the original post?  It was just unclear to me.  A simple yes or no as I will adhere to the debate rules imposed at these forums.

    Regards


    I am a little confused too. But my suggesstional offer is to carry on this conversation here . But in regards to the op's initial statement, if you have the book(s) then might I suggest reading the two places I directed him to.....

    Hope this helps.

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  • Todd Phillips
    Todd Phillips Member Posts: 6,733 ✭✭✭

    I have the full set of the Millenial Harbinger by Alexander Campbell.  Many years ago I read a series of articles written by Campbell explaining why the Holy Spirit chose the word, logos, as the expression of the preincarnate Jesus by the Apostle John.

    I guess I dreamed it, since I can not find that series of articles.  Perhaps I am mistaken that Campbell wrote it, but I didn't think so.  Can anyone help steer me to these articles.  By the way, they were very dry, but well thought out.

    Gary

    Back to your original question...a search of Google books is something I find helpful when the resources I need are not in Logos.

    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=Alexander+Campbell+%22he+has+chosen+the+term+logos%22&btnG=

    Does this help?:

    (I originally just searched on Alexander Campbell logos but then I did the phrase search above to see if it appeared in other volumes)

     

    MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Todd,

     I did a search and found  this, this is closer to mine…there is no Logos resource that I know of....

    Hope this helps.

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  • Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)
    Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) MVP Posts: 23,113

    I have the full set of the Millenial Harbinger by Alexander Campbell.  Many years ago I read a series of articles written by Campbell explaining why the Holy Spirit chose the word, logos, as the expression of the preincarnate Jesus by the Apostle John.

    I guess I dreamed it, since I can not find that series of articles.  Perhaps I am mistaken that Campbell wrote it, but I didn't think so.  Can anyone help steer me to these articles.  By the way, they were very dry, but well thought out.

    Gary

    Back to your original question...a search of Google books is something I find helpful when the resources I need are not in Logos.

    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=Alexander+Campbell+%22he+has+chosen+the+term+logos%22&btnG=

    Does this help?:

    (I originally just searched on Alexander Campbell logos but then I did the phrase search above to see if it appeared in other volumes)

    For contrast and comparison using Logos 4, could search Heading Text; Large Text for Logos

    Found many encyclopedia articles, including:

    image

    Also found some articles in => The Essential IVP Reference Collection Version 3

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • Josh
    Josh Member Posts: 1,542

    Confused.  Just for clarification for the casual reader of this thread, was it being corrected that Jesus as the God Man came into the world [existence] at a point in [our] time, but not that the Son (Word) wasn't eternally with the Father, right?  In other words, the Son of God didn't always exist as Jesus Christ.  It was just unclear to me.  A simple yes or no as I will adhere to the debate rules imposed at these forums.

    Regards

    Room4more is a member of a group called the Christadelphians. Arguing with him on this forum wont get you anywhere. For more on his beliefs go HERE instead.

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Confused.  Just for clarification for the casual reader of this thread, was it being corrected that Jesus as the God Man came into the world [existence] at a point in [our] time, but not that the Son (Word) wasn't eternally with the Father, right?  In other words, the Son of God didn't always exist as Jesus Christ.  It was just unclear to me.  A simple yes or no as I will adhere to the debate rules imposed at these forums.

    Regards

    Room4more is a member of a group called the Christadelphians. Arguing with him on this forum wont get you anywhere. For more on his beliefs go HERE instead.


    That's true Josh I am Christadelphian. But wrong concerning 'arguing' - I do hope that you have taken sometime to grasp how debate works, because your prior attempts have been weak, but I do encourage you to try again, I did leave it open for you to retry or re-state your position which your comment here would be better suited there......[do not trust the wiki page, it is misleading...]

    Hope this helps...

     

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  • Mark O'Hearn
    Mark O'Hearn Member Posts: 103

    Folks, actually when I said I looking for clarification of the original post, I actually just meant what I posted was not clear to me.  In hindsight I realize how people can request clarification with the aim to start a debate.  Sometimes folks just mean what they say about needing clarification.[;)]

    While I do not share the beliefs of everyone who participates at the Logos forums, I have come to the conclusion a long time ago that I have to see the truth for myself; it cannot be wrestled from me in a debate unless it is revealed to me in Scripture.  I assume it is the same for everyone else too.

    Best regards

  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    You're fine Mark, don't worry about it. I provided a couple of things and Todd found some more....we're glad that we could help. Really.

    Some peopl had their feelings hurt, or whatever, and just feel the need to vent......I support

    While I do not share the beliefs of everyone who participates at the Logos forums, I have come to the conclusion a long time ago that I have to see the truth for myself; it cannot be wrestled from me in a debate unless it is revealed to me in Scripture. I assume it is the same for everyone else too.

    I came to the same conclusion years before the forums, so I can understand what you say...

    Again glad we could help, hope it helped you....

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  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

    Gary, there’s an interesting writ in the just released http://www.logos.com/product/6324/a-dictionary-of-christ-and-the-gospels located on pp481[Logos]\

    [EDIT: I'll post part of the conclusion:


    p 484 2.3. Conclusion. [...] If John was thinking of any of the particular background dis cussed earlier in this article, it is not yet clear which one he had in mind. But his use of logos in the rest of the Gospel (which is the only evidence we have of his intentions) seems to imply that the word he is speaking of is that prophetic word which goes forth from God’s mouth to accomplish creation, judgment, redemption and renewal. John uses logos because it is the natural word for expressing the meaning of the Hebrew word dāḇar when that word was used in the context of God’s revelation. Beginning with its first sentences the Gospel asserts that Jesus is God’s final Revelator (cf. Heb 1:1–2). This assertion corresponds to the evangelistic purpose of the Gospel (Carson) and fits well with recent hypotheses that the original historical context of the Fourth Gospel was a debate with first-century Judaism over the locus of revelation (cf. Carter, 47 n. 82).

    .

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  • Room4more
    Room4more Member Posts: 1,730

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