Are these commentaries no longer sold separately? I don't see them on the Logos website. Thanks
Interesting. They are indeed gone. Also, the EEC product page needs to be updated to indicate that James, too, will now be downloaded upon purchase ($999.95).
Interesting. They are indeed gone.
Ha, I'm glad that I got the excellent James commentary then just in time. The individual resource links in the box to Ezra/Nehemiah, Philemon and 1-3 John lead back to the series page - which killed the individual reviews (I remember Joe giving five stars to 1-3 John) whereas those ten regarding the series are more heat than light IMO.
I did a search for eec and they are still available.
http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary
Not to sale these commentaries individiually would be a big mistake. If they don't find a larger market, these commentaries will never be acccepted by the larger evangelical ( or for that matter the larger scholary) community as a significant resource. And that endangers the completion of the project. On top of that, the selected authors (with a few notable exceptions) have a limited theological perspective that already makes wide acceptance questionable. (It is heavily weighted toward dispensationalism.) The limited viewpoint doesn't mean it can't be a financial success because dispensationalism is a large market. But that on top of a decision to require all or none purchasing does indeed give this set a steep hill to climb.
That is just one person's opinion.
This is really going to make me mad. I bought all of the ones that have been released on the assumption I would be able to continue to do so. If they change this back I am really going to be upset. I understand some were upset that they began selling these in the first place but that has seemed to have blown over, why would Logos want to upset another whole user base? I hope this is a temporary thing and they bring them back.
I was one of the early adopters of the whole set, and I agree with you that it would be a big mistake for Logos to withdraw the individual volume sale.
Are these commentaries no longer sold separately? I don't see them on the Logos website. Thanks I did a search for eec and they are still available. http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary
No, this is the series, not the works separately.
Are these commentaries no longer sold separately? I don't see them on the Logos website. Thanks I did a search for eec and they are still available. http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary No, this is the series, not the works separately.
Yes, I understand. I realized that I misread the original post and tried to fix my response. Decided to leave it alone and wait for a response (You) after failing to delete my reply. Sorry. [:)]
I realized that I misread the original post and tried to fix my response. Decided to leave it alone and wait for a response (You) after failing to delete my reply.
I think you can only delete posts as long as no one replied to them, but you could edit it. But there was no harm done here.
I realized that I misread the original post and tried to fix my response. Decided to leave it alone and wait for a response (You) after failing to delete my reply. I think you can only delete posts as long as no one replied to them, but you could edit it. But there was no harm done here.
Thanks NB.Mick. Thank God this was non-destruction and recoverable. I'll have to look into the editing features. [:)]
I hope someone from Logos can offer some clarification. First they only sold as a complete set. Then they added the option to purchase individual volumes. Now they seemed to have changed their minds yet again. I want to purchase the James commentary of this set, but they are gone.
After several internal discussions and carefully reviewing our prior marketing statements, we decided that we should not make individual EEC volumes available for purchase yet. We'll reevaluate this in the future as the set gets closer to completion. We're sorry for the frustration this may cause some of you.
Poor Phil got nominated (I guess).
Even I was tempted to buy some volumes even though normally I wouldn't touch them as a group. In Logos4 format no less. Whew, that was close.
So do I get to keep the copy of 1,2, and 3 John that I purchased?
I don't think you will lose your 1, 2 and 3 John commentaries. Once you purchase a Logos resource it's yours.
Michael,
No need to worry, you will not lose your copy of 1-3 John. It is yours to keep.
Cliff
Thanks for the clarification. Please let us know in advance next time.
I hope someone from Logos can offer some clarification. First they only sold as a complete set. Then they added the option to purchase individual volumes. Now they seemed to have changed their minds yet again. I want to purchase the James commentary of this set, but they are gone. After several internal discussions and carefully reviewing our prior marketing statements, we decided that we should not make individual EEC volumes available for purchase yet. We'll reevaluate this in the future as the set gets closer to completion. We're sorry for the frustration this may cause some of you.
Careful review or not the damage was already done and the dust settled, all this has done is kick up more dust and frustrate more people. From a CS standpoint I do not see how this makes any sense.
[Y]
First they only sold as a complete set. Then they added the option to purchase individual volumes. Now they seemed to have changed their minds yet again.
As per Phil, that's the case. One the one hand, many "early adopters" complained about selling the commentaries individually so early, on the other hand, maybe Logos were looking into the situation after they had opened it. Speculation: Perhaps Logos optimists expected many sales and a certain amount of increase in the subscriptions to the series - those users who saw the value in one and wanted to have all of them. Maybe one or both of this expectations didn't realize. I can imagine the subcription rate dropping to zero, since due to the long-stretched delivery schedule and the small price of the individual volumes, people now thought they can add every single one of the commentaries (or e.g. only the NT ones, or only those for major books) to their libraries when it appears. Maybe it was even worse: subscribers claiming their money back, perhaps making a (pretended) argument about the delivery schedule of a certain volume, while secretly hoping to still get all of EEC they want but without the long-term committment.
However, I am with those who question the success of a new commentary series which is not proliferated, which is not reviewed, cited in other commentaries and in books about commentaries and isn't on the recommended reading list of the seminaries.
I want to purchase the James commentary of this set, but they are gone
Too bad. James is the one I have and I happen to think it's excellent. If you are desparate you may try find someone who bought it and now sells it to you (there'll be a $20 transfer fee from Logos on top), if you really really need it and find no-one you may ask me...
However, I think of one three star reviewer on http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary who wrote "I don't like the idea of buying a whole series without having the chance to dig into at least one. Too bad that Logos chooses to publish it this way... " and got 'likes' for it. In light of Jayson Bradley's very convincing Logos Blog entry http://blog.logos.com/2011/02/how_to_check_out_a_collectionrisk-free/ I would urge Logos to open up the sale of at least one of the existing EEC volumes to allow people to test-drive and multipliers to review. This one volume should IMO be James: a relevant book, interesting because of the perceived discrepancies to Pauline letters, a commentary with some interesting theories, such as James was the first NT book written. It even has its page on BestCommentaries and collected some points to make it #19. Maybe let someone even make it into a Kindle format book and put it on Amazon. It's not so much about getting excellent reviews (which should happen nevertheless) but about getting the word out.
My 2c
Mick
Phil, as best I recall, most of the others that have commited to the set, like I have, have agreed that the EEC individual volumes should be made available to anyone as they become available.
The problem was that the marketing had made it clear that it was only going to be sold as a set. That seemed strange to everyone at the time. It was a motivation to commit to the set (sight unseen!) along with special pricing and financing.
The confusion came when the volumes began to appear individually in contradiction to the original marketing.
Those of us who originally purchased the set did experience a degree of frustration with changing statements from Logos about the set from when it was announced until today. We still got a better deal than anyone else will get (I assume!). It does not harm us for others to be able to buy the volumes as they become available. It should help expand the establishment of the series in the marketplace.
The latest decision (not communicated to the Logos community until inquiries were made--again) just adds to the confusion.
For a company that is constantly communicating to its users and potential customers (to the point people complain about being innudated), Logos seems to come up short in communicating at critical times.
I am often looking for the Both/And rather than the Either/Or solution.
I understood the early marketing to say "this will only be available as a set" and realize some purchasers committed to the whole set based upon the same understanding.
I also think a publisher should be able to revise its strategy.
Would an acceptable compromise be:
1. Early purchasers of the set lock in the price they committed to.
2. Current purchasers of the set pay 1.5x what those who took a risk and pre-ordered paid.
3. Current individual volumes are available at 3x the cost per volume of the early preorders.
4. As a sign of good faith for those who feel they have been misled (whether intentionally or not), Logos could offer individual volumes to those who pre-ordered the set at a rate of 1.25 times the per volume cost for those who wish to convert from a set to individual volume agreement.
I realize some individual volumes cost more to produce than others, so maybe the ratios I suggest could be guidelines rather than hard and fast pricing.
I am often looking for the Both/And rather than the Either/Or solution. I understood the early marketing to say "this will only be available as a set" and realize some purchasers committed to the whole set based upon the same understanding. I also think a publisher should be able to revise its strategy. Would an acceptable compromise be: 1. Early purchasers of the set lock in the price they committed to. 2. Current purchasers of the set pay 1.5x what those who took a risk and pre-ordered paid. 3. Current individual volumes are available at 3x the cost per volume of the early preorders. 4. As a sign of good faith for those who feel they have been misled (whether intentionally or not), Logos could offer individual volumes to those who pre-ordered the set at a rate of 1.25 times the per volume cost for those who wish to convert from a set to individual volume agreement. I realize some individual volumes cost more to produce than others, so maybe the ratios I suggest could be guidelines rather than hard and fast pricing.
I choose to approachthe issue from an ethical angle
I have nothingagainst more users getting access to EEC volumes as it can only be beneficialfor the whole series and similar projects from Logos in the future.
However, I donot think that a publisher’s "freedom to revise a strategy" extends to going backon previous marketing statements(which are nothing short of commitments) beforethey have fulfilled their part of the contract no more than they are free to substantially change the format of the series after marketing it a certain way.
There is nomiddle ground, either past commitments are kept or they are not. It is a matterof principles and with the amount of money I have invested over the years, Ihold this company to high standards. If I cannot trust them to honor all commitmentsabout the EEC, why should I trust them for other things?
After the EECincident, I vowed never again to trust Logos for similar projects since they seeminglyhad the freedom to adjust commitments as they saw fit.
With the morerecent developments I am pleased to see that Logos values its previousmarketing commitments more than profits. This goes a long way into restoring myconfidence in Logos’ and opens the door for me to future purchases of the samekind.
Speculation: Perhaps Logos
The post immediately after yours reveals the reason Logos withdrew the individual volume sale.
The problem was that the marketing had made it clear that it was only going to be sold as a set.
As a very early subscriber to the entire set, I believe Logos—and the community—would be better served by offering individual volumes. No matter which way they go, someone will whine.
However, I do not think that a publisher’s "freedom to revise a strategy" extends to going back on previous marketing statements
That is why they have locked themselves into withdrawing the individual volumes. Like you, I applaud Logos for putting principle above profit in this matter. But I still would like to see them offer individual volumes. Unfortunately, we cannot have it both ways.
Speculation: Perhaps Logos The post immediately after yours reveals the reason Logos withdrew the individual volume sale.
No, I don't think so. Only Logos can do this, but typically they don't disclose this type of information. Phil choose to tell us that they re-evaluated their decision to offer individual volumes, but not why they choose to overthrow it.
I believe Logos—and the community—would be better served by offering individual volumes.
I applaud Logos for putting principle above profit in this matter. But I still would like to see them offer individual volumes. Unfortunately, we cannot have it both ways
I'm glad for some of you who have had your faith restored in Logos and there principle before profit decision. But some of us , who had no hope of getting in on the pre-sale, will not benefit from what seems to be a fine commentary set.
Even though I applaud Logos for remaining faithful to former marketing hype, I also wish there was some way to release individual volumes. I was one of the early subscribers who were not upset that Logos was offering individual volumes. I still believe it was a wise move.
The post immediately after yours reveals the reason Logos withdrew the individual volume sale. No, I don't think so. Only Logos can do this, but typically they don't disclose this type of information. Phil choose to tell us that they re-evaluated their decision to offer individual volumes, but not why they choose to overthrow it.
I think you misread Phil.
After several internal discussions and carefully reviewing our prior marketing statements, we decided that we should not make individual EEC volumes available for purchase yet
His post only makes sense if the internal discussion revealed that Logos had indeed previously stated that this commentary would only be available as a set. I also had an email discussion with someone above Phil in the chain of command.
I am one that also committed to ECC from the start. Its a heap of cash for something that I wont see many volumes for years yet.
I commited to it for various reasons, including that it seemed to need the support before Logos was even going to do the project. Otherwise it was going to die, or so it seemed.
I was deeply upset and felt ripped off and lied to when I discovered the single books on sale. So the reversal addresses that concern, as I expect Logos reviewed what had been posted and emailed by them to us customers.
I see value to single volume sales, but the sales pitch and commitments made some big claims and I'm pleased Logos has stood behind what they said and what a fair reading of it would them expect from such a company.
I have begun reading the James volume. So far I'm still exploring the ideas about James rather than Peter being the head of the Christian Church.
I'd say it's simple 'cash' (in addition to keeping commitments too). Single volume sales completely destroys their business model. There's almost no upfront cash to pay the authors. Indeed it's even worse than the translations they're doing now, since everything's from scratch for the commentary. Also wouldn't be surprised if the single-volume idea was a test that failed (low interest).
Actually this whole thing suggests there's a bigger issue involved. On-going viability.
First they only sold as a complete set. Then they added the option to purchase individual volumes. Now they seemed to have changed their minds yet again. As per Phil, that's the case. One the one hand, many "early adopters" complained about selling the commentaries individually so early, on the other hand, maybe Logos were looking into the situation after they had opened it. Speculation: Perhaps Logos optimists expected many sales and a certain amount of increase in the subscriptions to the series - those users who saw the value in one and wanted to have all of them. Maybe one or both of this expectations didn't realize. I can imagine the subcription rate dropping to zero, since due to the long-stretched delivery schedule and the small price of the individual volumes, people now thought they can add every single one of the commentaries (or e.g. only the NT ones, or only those for major books) to their libraries when it appears. Maybe it was even worse: subscribers claiming their money back, perhaps making a (pretended) argument about the delivery schedule of a certain volume, while secretly hoping to still get all of EEC they want but without the long-term committment. However, I am with those who question the success of a new commentary series which is not proliferated, which is not reviewed, cited in other commentaries and in books about commentaries and isn't on the recommended reading list of the seminaries. I want to purchase the James commentary of this set, but they are gone Too bad. James is the one I have and I happen to think it's excellent. If you are desparate you may try find someone who bought it and now sells it to you (there'll be a $20 transfer fee from Logos on top), if you really really need it and find no-one you may ask me... However, I think of one three star reviewer on http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary who wrote "I don't like the idea of buying a whole series without having the chance to dig into at least one. Too bad that Logos chooses to publish it this way... " and got 'likes' for it. In light of Jayson Bradley's very convincing Logos Blog entry http://blog.logos.com/2011/02/how_to_check_out_a_collectionrisk-free/ I would urge Logos to open up the sale of at least one of the existing EEC volumes to allow people to test-drive and multipliers to review. This one volume should IMO be James: a relevant book, interesting because of the perceived discrepancies to Pauline letters, a commentary with some interesting theories, such as James was the first NT book written. It even has its page on BestCommentaries and collected some points to make it #19. Maybe let someone even make it into a Kindle format book and put it on Amazon. It's not so much about getting excellent reviews (which should happen nevertheless) but about getting the word out. My 2c Mick
