Logos 5..."must haves".
I was almost immediately let down by L4's introduction, even at the same time I was excited about getting the Portfolio. Others couldn't praise L4 often or loud enough...while I was desperately looking for any reason to like it. I really did want to like it, but just couldn't. It simply didn't do then...and still doesn't do now...what I use L3 to do on a daily basis.
Others have discussed what L5 may be, but I want to throw out a few suggestions of what L5 needs to have included for me to become a happy adopter. I would love to really, truly WANT to say goodbye to L3 when L5 is released, but I must have certain features to make that move.
1. Window History menus--This feature of L3 is unexplainably absent from L4, and I am flummoxed by its absence and the lack of outcry to get it added. I use this feature CONSTANTLY in L3 because it is highly utilitarian in a software program where hotlinks are the "raison d'etre". I can whip through 10-20 Bible hotlinks in less than 5 minutes.
With the drop-down Window History menu, a list of the last 10 page views in a given window is shown going both forward and backward. It shows me my track of hotlink-induced inquiry, allows me to backtrack to precisely where I want to go with a click or two, rather than blindly backtracking until I find the view I want. This is very much like the IE Forward and Back buttons...they used to have the "down" buttons that showed the history, but now you just right-click the back and forward buttons to display the history menu. I prefer the down arrow, but either is better than neither, which is what L4 provides.
This is a fundamental and super easy feature to include...please make sure L5 has this. 
2. Next, and this is super important for me...I really, really, really want MY Library to have a nameable drag-and-drop folder/subfolder sort feature. When I open my Library and have over 4,000 lines of items, I get depressed rather than excited, and that's a shame. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have Perseus, and Portfolio, and the hundreds of other items in my Library, but the volume is daunting in the extreme. Please...don't tell me I can create and use Collections...they don't do what I want (I'm NOT concerned with searching at all in this regard). I want VISUAL control of my Library, in much the same way I can choose upon which shelf I can put a book in my hardcopy collection. Of course, being digital, there can (and SHOULD) be greater flexibility in my folder/subfolder grouping ability--for instance, I should be able to have one book appear in 2 or more subfolders simultaneously (i.e. an author folder and a lexicon or language or theology or commentary folder, or all of the above). This would have nothing to do with physical location on the disk, obviously. My main goal is to be able to open MY Library and have my over 4,000 resources show as approximately a dozen folders (named and sorted as I choose). I could have one folder labeled Perseus and in that folder all 2000+ items would reside in perhaps 4-6 subfolders (Greek, Latin, English, etc.) without visually clogging my Library and dampening my spirit. One thing I like to do is LOOK at, literally visually peruse, my library...organized in the way that I choose. This function would be very much like the standard folder/subfolder ability available in most MS programs such as Windows, Word, etc., including the standard Shift & Control choosing functions for multiple item choosing and moving. As a special request, I would really appreciate it if Logos provided an extensive pre-formatted collection of folders and sub-folders so that I & we (the customer base) didn't have to spend days and weeks creating from scratch our own individual folders when most people would likely want many similar folders. Having one person create in advance an extensive template of folders that can be edited would save tens of thousands of hours of customers having to individually duplicate what every other Logos user will likewise be creating in their own Libraries.
I don't know if the current Library management options conflict with what I am suggesting here, but if there is an issue, then perhaps you could have an A-B switch that allows folders/subfolders vs. the current L4 method, sort of like switching from Windows Classic to Aero. I do think many users would like and perfer folders to the current method, at least sometimes.
3. Notes. This is such an important element of my Logos usage that it is daunting to even think of describing precisely what I want and need...and NEED is the biggest understatement in the history of understatements. If L5 doesn't at least match what L3 does in this consideration, I will likely be forced to use L3 until I die or Messiah returns. I am prepared to buy 5-10 duplicate computers that have OS's and browsers that are appropriate for L3 that will allow me to continue using L3 for the long haul...but I would love to not have to go to such extremes.
Bob knows somewhat how I use Notes in L3...I explained it to him in person. I use my Notes in L3 not just for organizing my thoughts and insights, but for producing PRESENTATIONS. I forgo as extraneous programs such as PowerPoint, preferring to conduct my public studies of Scripture WITHIN Scripture. I make notes within the Bible which include my own selections of related verses, pertinent lexical aid references, quotes from commentaries and monographs, my own comments, etc. These notes in L3 have a distinct advantage over notes in L4--they are not limited in size to only 2.5x3 in. boxes. I can, with a bit of clever manipulation, get Notes pop-ups that are almost as large as my screen. More than any other consideration, I absolutely REQUIRE this ability. I cannot stress enough how flawed the thinking that went into the decision to limit note size was...it is like creating a car that won't get out of first gear for safety reasons. By using Notes in L3 the way I do, I am able to create hotlinked Bible studies without the hassel of hotlinks...a simple mouse hover brings up a plethora of Johnny-on-the-spot info...and mutiple notes can address numerous issues pertaining to a particular text...all while never leaving the Text or having to make a single click. L4 simply can't approach this ability. There are some L3 Notes limitations I would like to see addressed. I would love to have the ability to get Notes that can be pinned (so they don't disappear as soon as the mouse moves off the note icon) and scrolled. L3 has scrollable notes for notes that are longer than the largest window size allows, but only for Logos factory notes, not for notes created by users. Finally, I want much more word-processing capability in the Notes function. I don't necessarily need MS Word, but much more than what is currently available. I know MJ wants tables and charts...picture import would be nice...but more font sizes (i.e. not just 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, etc., but 11 and 15 and 19 if that's what I want/need). Also, please ELIMINATE ALL BUILT-IN DOUBLE-SPACED PARAGRAPH RETURNS. If I want double-spaced, let me hit Return twice...don't think for me...for your ways are not my ways. 
4. I would like more color options for highlighting and visual mark-up (as L3 calls it). I know that L4 has some increased choices over L3, but I don't use L4 for Note creation so I'm not that sure what is currently available.
I appreciate Logos as a company...you play an enormously important role in the ability Bible students have of comprehending Scripture. What I request here is what I know has become essential for me. I hope you can find a way to include these features in the next major release. Thanks for listening.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
Comments
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My list will surprise no one:
- Ability to attach a note to more than one reference
- A more functional lectionary system that naturally recognizes:
- varying lectionary lengths
- repeating cycles (2 week, 4 week etc.)
- allow multiple lectionaries simultaneously (Mass, Liturgy of the Hours)
- Reading plans that take exactly what is entered and does not try to level it
- Equal support in Biblical Facts (etc.) for the various longer canons at least of the Western and Byzantine traditions - market for Eastern Church would probably be pushing it.
- Ability to add user generated harmonies, timelines, lectionaries hymnals
- Root searches in addition to lemmas
- Grid on the sentence diagramming tool
- Support for searching at least title lists of non-Logos document to allow at least minimal integration of diagrams, PDFs, etc. done outline Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Bob has said that this is coming.MJ. Smith said:Support for searching at least title lists of non-Logos document to allow at least minimal integration of diagrams, PDFs, etc. done outline Logos.
- I simply want to be able to use my notes that come from L3. L4 destroys many many many many notes that it imports from L3. I simply cannot read my notes in L4, so I have to use L3 to read my notes.
- Better library control
- Better file manager control
- Faster response times from mouse clicks.
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David Paul said:
...don't think for me...for your ways are not my ways.
This has always been one of my problems with Logos, even with L3. It too often decides for me and not in the way I would choose.
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All good suggestions. There will be a lot of requests here, as it has been some time since there has been any substantial feature additions to Logos outside of the community/faithlife/proclaim/vyrso/mobile/sync support...
I would add:
Note searching representative of other types of searching within Logos.
I concur, we need much better ways to manage and organize our Library views given the size of our libraries.
Personal books on mobile devices
Better management tools for the Priority List. Mine is a long, unmanageable mess to figure out. Isn't there a better way of organizing/presenting/visualizing this?
Better original languages tools support. I won't go into all the issues here, there have been several threads on this, but I am a student and I would love to be able to get more out of Logos in this area. Logos seems to lag behind the competitors here, I would like to see that changed!
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Next, and this is super important for me...I really, really, really want MY Library to have a nameable drag-and-drop folder/subfolder sort feature
I agree completely.
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[Y] to these improvements:
David Paul said:3. Notes. [...] I would love to have the ability to get Notes that can be pinned [...] Also, please ELIMINATE ALL BUILT-IN DOUBLE-SPACED PARAGRAPH RETURNS. If I want double-spaced, let me hit Return twice...don't think for me...for your ways are not my ways. *Wink*
4. I would like more colour options for highlighting and visual mark-up (as L3 calls it).
MJ. Smith, I have not been able to use the lectionaries. One teacher in a class at the Church told me that she and some others use Universalis Publishing apps to know what the passage in the Mass is (and the full version of it costs). But I don't have an advanced cellular phone and I'm going to quit one of the (2) subscriptions, the local one. In addition to that I don't have internet at home (it's expensive where I live and also because of Ethical reasons), so I don't have time to go to the Universalis homepage to look that up.tom collinge said:4. Faster response times from mouse clicks.
I have another suggestion: I would like to be able to magnify the Greek words in for example commentaries. I don't like the Windows in-built magnifier that doesn't allow scrolling the screen and that magnifies everything.
EDIT: I didn't notice this:
<- could be good!David Paul said:2. Next, and this is super important for me...I really, really, really want MY Library to have a nameable drag-and-drop folder/subfolder sort feature
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I think MJ's list is so good. Especially the multiple references per note.
You would not believe how USEFUL this is. It's easy to implement ... you attach it to the search panel or allow a verse list in the notes panel. Then when you're studying on one verse, and check a word usage, you can add it to all the other instances for a later reminder. Same for theology, author pattern, etc.
That's how I end up with 74,000 notes (my own Bible software; last I reported, I had maybe 40,000). Essentially as a Bible study-er, you're writing your own small commentary. Periodically I export the notes to my other Bible software including Logos PBs.
In my software I also allow a sub-search on the search panel, so you can visually highlight the ones you want to add notes to, and also manually select/deselect. In my most recent version, I also allow adding in-line text to the actual Bible text (user-copy; not the original). That's VERY handy when you want the verse to show up in later searches for a specific reason or the translation needs help (similar to the Amplified version).
But after several years, I have a 'diary' of Bible study both by myself and also notes from our pastor's sermons. I date-stamp them and then sort them by when added so I can see the trend of observations.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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All excellent ideas methinks.
I particularly like David Paul's request regarding library organization - it does seem rather odd that Logos doesn't provide an effective way to visually organize, and thereby leverage, one its principle strengths - its stunning array of library resources. I be no software engineer but it doesn't seem like this would be all that difficult to implement.
David Paul said:2. Next, and this is super important for me...I really, really, really want MY Library to have a nameable drag-and-drop folder/subfolder sort feature.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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I am all for the HISTORY list to be able to chose from. It can be done as it is in some Web browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer) where right click opens the list of pages.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
I am all for the HISTORY list to be able to chose from. It can be done as it is in some Web browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer) where right click opens the list of pages.
[Y]
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Dominick Sela said:
Better management tools for the Priority List. Mine is a long, unmanageable mess to figure out. Isn't there a better way of organizing/presenting/visualizing this?
Not being a programmer, this is just a thought...but I think my idea regarding folders/subfolders for visual management of our Library would also help out in managing the Priority List. In fact, having a one-click import of our Library folders and/or an elaborate factory template that has many of the priority lists pre-made (but editable) would be great. I've never understood why Logos expects each user to create this daunting and enormously time-consuming task on their own. Sure, we each want different things in our PL, but having some logical presets would be great (along with a feature that allows one-click removal of all or part of those presets for those who choose to start from scratch). In L3, I never understood why the Latin version of the Apocrypha was the default on the PL...I doubt that is the language that most folks preferred for that resource. I can imagine that having a multi-resource grabbing option might help too.
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Bob mentioned at the first Camp Logos for L4 that he almost decided not to include Notes in L4...believe it or not. The reason, he said, was because the opt-in automated feedback included in L3 showed few people used notes. Ironically, the main reason I opted out of that big brother snooping option (however useful it is to Logos, which I acknowledge) was because I didn't want anyone seeing my notes, since I have many notes that pertain to books I am working on. I assume many others who used Notes didn't opt-in for similar reasons. I hope that enough pro-note chatter has ensued since then to establish how critical Notes are for many users.
After making his statement about almost not including Notes, Bob then said that he deliberately chose not to have a significant and robust number of word processing options within Notes because he believed that would increase the amount of customer support required and he didn't want to support a word processor when there were dozens of word processors and note programs "out there". Okay...but there is one significant issue that I think gets overlooked in this perspective: THOSE OPTIONS ARE NOT RESIDENT IN MY BIBLE...and being resident in my Bible IS the entire advantage of my Notes usage. All of my work on my Notes is just a cursor-hover away. Understand, I make elaborate Notes that pull data from WITHIN Logos and pin it to a expedient location in my Bible just so I don't have to click or hyperlink or search for that info in its original Logos resource. No external word processor or note program can precisely duplicate what the Logos Notes function is designed to accomplish.
That said, I see Logos Bible Software serving two main functions for me, both of which are critical. It allows me to gather and assemble as much pertinent info as I desire and place it precisely in the spot within my Bible where I know I will want and need to encounter it in the future--this is pure gold to me. The other function is Logos's fantastic ability to gather tons of resources and search them quickly so that I can accomplish more in less time--this is a priceless feature of the digital age. Here's the thing, though. L4 is much better (more powerful) at the second feature than L3 is, yet I use L3 about 99% of the time and use L4 just for performing those glorified searches. As fabulous, spectacular, and whiz bang as those instantaneous, whole library searches are...if I can't take the unearthed nuggets and plop them in (word) processed form in the precise spot in my Bible where those hours of labor can produce an interactive payoff, then the purpose of the searches is diminished by nearly 99%. I know I can't remember everything I study, but if I can attach the fruit of my labor to the spot in my Bible where it can shed light, I don't have to...it will just be waiting there for me when I return. But those notes MUST be as utilitarian as I need them to be...not limited and stunted by design because someone somewhere in the world already has a word processor and a note program. If I can't make a note IN MY BIBLE then those options are utterly WORTHLESS to me.
Okay...now I just want to make a couple of observations. If avoiding customer service requests is so important, coming out with what seems like dozens of new platforms in the last 2-3 years isn't helping matters. From what I've seen on the forums, things like Proclaim send such requests through the roof. And those things don't help me...I use Logos on a laptop exclusively. In other words, I use Logos for what it was originally designed. With regard to the presumed increase in CS associated with a better, more feature-rich word processor, I actually think the opposite might be true. If the wp is USEFUL and does what people want it to do, it will likely lead to fewer calls. Besides, word processing is as old as the hills...probably the oldest and most pedestrian end-user task since PCs became available. I would be more than happy to trade increased functionality for a "forums only" support network. I bet most others would be on board with that.
I said all that to make the case for expanded Notes capability at the word processing level. Visual mark-up is strongly related to the Notes utility, so any increase in options there is a useful and needful plus. I hope L5 will address these concerns. Thanks for listening.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Bob mentioned at the first Camp Logos for L4 that he almost decided not to include Notes in L4...believe it or not. The reason, he said, was because the opt-in automated feedback included in L3 showed few people used notes. Ironically, the main reason I opted out of that big brother snooping option (however useful it is to Logos, which I acknowledge) was because I didn't want anyone seeing my notes, since I have many notes that pertain to books I am working on. I assume many others who used Notes didn't opt-in for similar reasons. I hope that enough pro-note chatter has ensued since then to establish how critical Notes are for many users.
After making his statement about almost not including Notes, Bob then said that he deliberately chose not to have a significant and robust number of word processing options within Notes because he believed that would increase the amount of customer support required and he didn't want to support a word processor when there were dozens of word processors and note programs "out there". Okay...but there is one significant issue that I think gets overlooked in this perspective: THOSE OPTIONS ARE NOT RESIDENT IN MY BIBLE...and being resident in my Bible IS the entire advantage of my Notes usage. All of my work on my Notes is just a cursor-hover away. Understand, I make elaborate Notes that pull data from WITHIN Logos and pin it to a expedient location in my Bible just so I don't have to click or hyperlink or search for that info in its original Logos resource. No external word processor or note program can precisely duplicate what the Logos Notes function is designed to accomplish.
That said, I see Logos Bible Software serving two main functions for me, both of which are critical. It allows me to gather and assemble as much pertinent info as I desire and place it precisely in the spot within my Bible where I know I will want and need to encounter it in the future--this is pure gold to me. The other function is Logos's fantastic ability to gather tons of resources and search them quickly so that I can accomplish more in less time--this is a priceless feature of the digital age. Here's the thing, though. L4 is much better (more powerful) at the second feature than L3 is, yet I use L3 about 99% of the time and use L4 just for performing those glorified searches. As fabulous, spectacular, and whiz bang as those instantaneous, whole library searches are...if I can't take the unearthed nuggets and plop them in (word) processed form in the precise spot in my Bible where those hours of labor can produce an interactive payoff, then the purpose of the searches is diminished by nearly 99%. I know I can't remember everything I study, but if I can attach the fruit of my labor to the spot in my Bible where it can shed light, I don't have to...it will just be waiting there for me when I return. But those notes MUST be as utilitarian as I need them to be...not limited and stunted by design because someone somewhere in the world already has a word processor and a note program. If I can't make a note IN MY BIBLE then those options are utterly WORTHLESS to me.
Okay...now I just want to make a couple of observations. If avoiding customer service requests is so important, coming out with what seems like dozens of new platforms in the last 2-3 years isn't helping matters. From what I've seen on the forums, things like Proclaim send such requests through the roof. And those things don't help me...I use Logos on a laptop exclusively. In other words, I use Logos for what it was originally designed. With regard to the presumed increase in CS associated with a better, more feature-rich word processor, I actually think the opposite might be true. If the wp is USEFUL and does what people want it to do, it will likely lead to fewer calls. Besides, word processing is as old as the hills...probably the oldest and most pedestrian end-user task since PCs became available. I would be more than happy to trade increased functionality for a "forums only" support network. I bet most others would be on board with that.
I said all that to make the case for expanded Notes capability at the word processing level. Visual mark-up is strongly related to the Notes utility, so any increase in options there is a useful and needful plus. I hope L5 will address these concerns. Thanks for listening.
[Y][Y][Y]
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
I am all for the HISTORY list to be able to chose from. It can be done as it is in some Web browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer) where right click opens the list of pages.
Reminder: Basic History is already available - look under tools.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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If talking word processing, spelling- and grammar-check would be needed too, and I don't think that is one of Logos' core tasks!
David Paul said:Besides, word processing is as old as the hills...probably the oldest and most pedestrian end-user task since PCs became available. I would be more than happy to trade increased functionality for a "forums only" support network. I bet most others would be on board with that.
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MJ. Smith said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
I am all for the HISTORY list to be able to chose from. It can be done as it is in some Web browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer) where right click opens the list of pages.
Reminder: Basic History is already available - look under tools.
Of course. What I am speaking about is the most recent items of history accessible at the same place as the back/forward arrows. It would be very intuitive since people know it from the Internet browsers. Frankly speaking, I rarely use the regular History buried under the Tools.
P.S. I just commented one of David's suggestions I thoroughly agree with.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
What I am speaking about is the most recent items of history accessible at the same place as the back/forward arrows. It would be very intuitive since people know it from the Internet browsers.
That is even how the Logos mobile app works.
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What would I need to abandon L3 completely:
- The ability to search for roots and not just lemmas.
- The ability for Logos to display Syriac.
What else would be essential for L5 to have:
- Better lectionary support.
- Better support for the various canons.
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James W Bennett said:
What else would be essential for L5 to have:
- Better lectionary support.
- Better support for the various canons.
[Y][Y][Y]
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MJ. Smith said:
Ability to attach a note to more than one reference
Which, I suppose, is the same as being able to link an existing note to a reference. [Y]
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And last but not least: I want Logos 5 to prepare and preach my sermons for me so I'll just sit back and relax...LOL :-D
DAL
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A good Mac version. That is all.
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[y][y][y]David Paul said:1. Window History menus
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
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I want to be able to prioritize verse-by-verse, chapter-by-chapter, and book-by-book Bible versions that I have as printed matter but that are not in Logos, because it gets tiresome to remember that by heart. The Bible text would not show up in Logos, just the name of the version.
See discussions of Bibles:
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/55583.aspx
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/55114.aspx
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/55826/403197.aspx#403197Disclosure!
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I would like to have the final L5 release be at least almost what we should expect from the final product. I love L4, but when it was first released it was in all respects a beta release. Many of the important features that are now included were not even in the intitial release, or even close to it. Updates should be for the most part to add stability and tweaks, and not new features that should have been included in the intitial release (I'm looking at you print option). As a result of the, "That feature will be released soon" model, we ended up never getting some of the features that were expected or even promised. Admittedly, I can't think of any features that I personally wanted that were not eventually included, but when I hear others bring some up that they expected, I often think, "Oh, that would have been nice."
I think that we have been taught to get really excited when a new feature is finally released, and we are told that good things come to those who wait, but I think good things should come to those who choose to buy the software in the first place over another software. Other companies seem to be stepping up, and if L5 is not a completed release, then I fear that Logos could lose a lot of sales to those other companies.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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I realize this isn't as important as the other "must haves" listed, however I would like the ability to save a .pdf file with my personal books in Logos 5. That way when my denomination leadership send books or other material via email I can save it without buying other software or trying out freeware that doesn't do what was promised.
Also let me get rid of L3 by putting the tools that were promised and that libronix has into Logos 5 one being "fuzzy search" that I use when someone comes to me desperately wanting to know if something grandma always said is in the bible and where it is.
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Wesley Crouch said:
I would like the ability to save a .pdf file with my personal books
Can't you just save the .docx file to a .pdf from within Word? Or do you mean the opposite… you want to IMPORT a .pdf file into Logos?
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We have been told that Logos will be able to index other documents like pdf.Wesley Crouch said:I realize this isn't as important as the other "must haves" listed, however I would like the ability to save a .pdf file with my personal books in Logos 5. That way when my denomination leadership send books or other material via email I can save it without buying other software or trying out freeware that doesn't do what was promised.
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tom said:
We have been told that Logos will be able to index other documents like pdf.
Do you have a link for that? Was it from Bob or another employee?
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tom said:
Bob said this, but it will take me a while to find the link.
Thanks Tom. I didnt see that. If you or someone else finds it, let me know. [:)]
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alabama24 said:
Can't you just save the .docx file to a .pdf from within Word?
I believe this is only Word 2013 which currently is in beta,
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:alabama24 said:
Can't you just save the .docx file to a .pdf from within Word?
I believe this is only Word 2013 which currently is in beta,
My apologies... This is a feature of Mac apps, including Microsoft Word. I forget that the PC version doesn't do it. [:P]
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alabama24 said:
This is a screenshot from Word 2007 (Windows):
But maybe I have this because I've got Adobe Acrobat (the full version, not just the reader) installed.
If you don't have Save As PDF capability available, you can always print to a PDF file, using a free PDF printer driver such as BullZip.
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I found it.alabama24 said:Thanks Tom. I didnt see that. If you or someone else finds it, let me know.
Bob Pritchett said:POSSIBLE: Using a new Logos 5 feature (shh... it's top secret!) we could even support viewing these "page facsimile" documents inside the Logos desktop software, and support offline viewing of the ones you chose to keep locally. (Which could be just your own, or even specific documents you'd found at BibleFile from others.) This would at last answer the "let me import PDF's and other documents!" request from some users. (For an example of performance of image-based document display, instead of PDF, see http://books.logos.com/. You can also full-text search these image-based resources. Try searching for Eph 2:8)
This came from :http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42728/318291.aspx#318291
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Thanks Tom. [:)]
I remember reading that now… however, it should be noted (from my understanding of Bob's remarks) that those files will not be like "logos edition" books and will be considerably less than .docx created personal books. Also note that Bob said this was a POSSIBLE feature. I read that to mean that it isn't (or wasn't at the time Bob wrote) specced into L5 builds.
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alabama24 said:
Thanks Tom.
I remember reading that now… however, it should be noted (from my understanding of Bob's remarks) that those files will not be like "logos edition" books and will be considerably less than .docx created personal books. Also note that Bob said this was a POSSIBLE feature. I read that to mean that it isn't (or wasn't at the time Bob wrote) specced into L5 builds.
I understood Bob's statement that the various documents will be indexed, but we will need to view them outside Logos. I also believe we will have this feature when L5 comes out.
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Rosie Perera said:
This is a screenshot from Word 2007 (Windows):
This is a screenshot from Word 2010 (windows) *smile*
Peace to all! and ... Always Joy in the Lord! Greetings from Canada on Thanksgiving Sunday! Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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I still insist that we need a weights and measures coverter such as in L3—even though Bob doesn't want to do it. DO IT ANYWAY !!!! [:@]
george
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yes, George. This is REALLY a very helpful little feature, despite the inherent limitations associated with conversions. Bob is awesome, but sometimes I think he naturally doesn't understand how helpful certain things can be for those who teach/preach regularly. This is an example. A quick down-and-dirty ballpark converter saves tons of time when you need a figure quickly and your class starts in an hour or two. Sometimes, you just don't have time to go searching for an answer to what should be a fairly simple thing. And no, the current tools don't substitute. I mean this with TREMENDOUS respect... but he is a programmer (a good one!), and forms his ideas based upon that perspective (and rightly so). Most of the time he hits the nail on the head (really, Logos as he designed it is awesome, despite our individual issues and preferences), but occaisionally, not being a professional teacher/preacher, he may not always grasp how helpful a tool or feature could be based upon the constraints or demands that many of us face.
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Please add my vote for folders/subfolders in the library management system. Yes, you can SORT OF do this through collections... that's what I do... but the Collections feature and folder management of the library are fundamentally different things. The Collections feature is essentially a SEARCH tool... it enables you to search through a limited, predefined set of books. (fantastic feature... thanks!) But that isn't the same thing as what we're talking about... a way to visually organize our massive libraries. At the size under which we are now operating, using Collections for this task is rather an unwieldy approach to do something pretty simple (and standard in virtually every other piece of software). And even if you set up collections to serve as a jury-rigged folder management system, it doesn't really function the same way practically... it doesn't really provide a quick visual way to BROWSE your library. Search, yes. But searching and browsing are different tasks, producing different, but equally helpful, fruit. A folder management system would really make our resources more useful, and ensure that more books in our libraries would actually be used.
Personally, I don't want or need Logos to 'prethink" this for me... I'll likely just have to undo that, which makes more work for me. David Paul indicated elsewhere "don't think for me...for your ways are not my ways"... and I agree. I'd rather programmer time be spent on other feature development/improvements. One day, when Logos is perfect, and you have to find some way to keep your programmers from twiddling their thumbs, you can devise all the optional folder pre-sets you want (as long as they are OPTIONAL to add). Until then, I think I can handle that myself. ;-)
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EmileB ... how does tagging differ from folders. I'm not disagreeing with you; but I suspect they're thinking 'tagging' solves 'folders'.
I have my library fully tagged (though use single tags since the tag-clear button elsewise destroys the whole thing). And clicking on the heading instantly creates 'folders' (visually) with my 3000 book library fully organized. And unlike the PC's file system, typing a title or author instantly removes all 'folders' that don't have contents qualifying.
I'd assume 'real' folders provide more functionality:
- Drag/drop (though a resource can logically only go in 1 folder where tags allow multiple). But the physicality of folders versus text-tags is easier and definitely on a touch screen.
- Conceivably most want multiple levels of folders (though knowing Logos, they tend to try to limit users)
- I guess you'd probably want to make folders subject to searches, cited-by lists, etc?Again I'm only writing this to help demonstrate what folders do versus tagging.
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Yes, I don't understand what tags are, so I think folders would be better!
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EmileB said:
Personally, I don't want or need Logos to 'prethink" this for me... I'll likely just have to undo that, which makes more work for me. David Paul indicated elsewhere "don't think for me...for your ways are not my ways"... and I agree. I'd rather programmer time be spent on other feature development/improvements. One day, when Logos is perfect, and you have to find some way to keep your programmers from twiddling their thumbs, you can devise all the optional folder pre-sets you want (as long as they are OPTIONAL to add). Until then, I think I can handle that myself. ;-)
I understand your point, Emile. My thinking on the matter is that it is fundamentally easier to erase the unwanted than it is to create the non-existent. Just think about how long it takes to load...or worse, download...a program, versus erasing that program. An hour (or much longer) compared to a few seconds. But I have thought about this and I'm not sure what the presets would look like. If it can be done and rearranged easily, it could help. If that's not feasible, then it probably wouldn't help.
Let me once again [Y] the folders/subfolders idea...a critical feature. I can't believe I took so much grief from the Logos cheerleaders and peanut gallery when I first asked for this feature right after L4 came out. I felt like Oliver Twist asking for more gruel. Thankfully, many people seem to support this now.
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I am not certain how folders would work in Logos, as far as Library management. What about the folders system in Favorites, could this be used or modified? I can't really visualize where that would be implemented. Are you thinking of maybe a "folders view" within the library menu itself. I can see where grouping resources for teaching/study would be useful, but I've just created a folder on what I am studying in favorites and then drag the resources there. I use folders on my Mac, but quite frankly it's because it can be hard to find a file again. But in Logos if I tag something (subject, resource type, ect.) I can find it.
Since the folders in favorites can have sub folders, is the issue that it needs better implementation? In what way does this current feature not work?
I'm only asking because if Logos doesn't have to completely create a new filing structure it would allow more time for them to work on new features, and maybe rework favorites so it can be adapted.
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DMB said:
I'd assume 'real' folders provide more functionality:
- Drag/drop (though a resource can logically only go in 1 folder where tags allow multiple). But the physicality of folders versus text-tags is easier and definitely on a touch screen.
- Conceivably most want multiple levels of folders (though knowing Logos, they tend to try to limit users)
- I guess you'd probably want to make folders subject to searches, cited-by lists, etc?Again I'm only writing this to help demonstrate what folders do versus tagging.
Can't this currently be done in favorites? I drag searches, reports, documents in Favorites all the time.
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