Slow Logos 4
Comments
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Bob Pritchett said:
We've also gotten some reports of interference from third-party applications, which we'll continue to observe and hopefully identify.
Would it be possible to get a list of these to see if they are the cause of our performance issues?
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Bob...
And I hope Bob receives this. We greatly appreciate Logos4. When it runs on my computer it is a delight. It is fast and smooth and wonderful.
But... when it does not run well it is unusable. It is not about slow performance or putting a stop watch to some process. You are not hearing. LOGOS 4 HAS SOMETHING GOING ON THAT IS MAKING IT UNUSABLE. NOT SLOW! SLOW is "it takes a little time to do a Word BY Word. I am talking about Logos4 essentially crashing. Much of the time you can't even get it to shut down without Task Manager. SLOW is not the problem.
I know about .NET, about hardware requirments, and about software development. I am running some of the most demanding software on the market. My computer is certainly not the fastest and latest out there, but it is more than adequate.
You can not imagine how many hours I've spent trying to get your software to run. In my case, on my particular computer I can get L4 to function normally about 65% of the time. At other times it takes 40 seconds to type "John 3:16" into a search box. I've discovered several things that "help" and seem to "solve" the problem. But frequently it is temporary.
I've emailed tech support with all the technical info on my system. I was told (nicely) that this is a busy time for them and they are working on it. It wasn't convincing, and I have not heard back from them. Read the forums, they said. I've searched the forums only to find two groups apparently talking past each other. Half are talking about subtle slowdowns over Logos3. The rest of us are talking about L4 crashing.
I'm not angry about this, I know that it takes time to get things worked out and I know that eventually things will work. But when I read your post identifying the problem as one of "optimizing" and suggesting that the problem with your software crashing and being buggy is uninformed users with old wornout equipment, I decided to at least try to get through to you that you are missing the message and have a bigger problem than "optimizing" is going to fix.
If anyone at Logos is interested AND if it would help in finding the answer I would be happy to communicate with them about the details and what I find seems to a)cause the problem and b)what seems to help.
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. I would just like to think that someone at Logos gets it. Thanks.
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I am preparing for my Greek exegesis exam on the Fourth Gospel tomorrow. I am giving up L4 for now. L3 is so smooth running that it's a pain to even just trying to drag the font size slider in L4. It is really aggravating.
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DLCooper said:
I have had several students have ask about upgrading their current program or switching to Logos. Although, I am confident that the current issues with L4 will be worked out, for the immediate, however, I'm suggesting that they hold off on upgrading or switching. Since we are nearing the completion of the semester they wouldn't need any added pressures. By the new semester the smoke will have cleared and then we can recommend they upgrade. I am excited about L4 and am sure that in time these problems will be ironed out.
My daughter is a student at a Bible college and I saw the price list for students. The special upgrade prices for students expire December 31. We helped our daughter get a base package (her first) and for now she is just playing with the program. But she is in the door.
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First post for me on these forums, so... I'd like to say- awesome upgrade. Well worth the money
Logos 4 is pretty slow on the UI rendering though. I'm running a custom built quad-core box with a chunky graphics card under Vista, with 4gigs of ram. I built it to run games and a ton of design software. All of it runs beautifully. Logos 4 is slow compared to everything else I use. I'm not sure if it's the kind of slow others are talking about in this thread, but for me, it's pretty hard not noticing how much the programs chugs along when you grab a scrollbar (the library especially) and move a page or two. Also, if you type in 'close all' in the command box, the program grinds to a halt as it tries to close everything. It's not pretty to watch.
The program looks light on its feet, but the rendering going on isn't. The fact it drags a computer like down is a little scary in this day and age.
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I'd reiterate the response of many others to Logos 4 - the more I use the programme the more impressed (and pleased) I am with it - the one (not insignificant) disappointment is how slow it often is in terms of response times compared to other programmes on my PC.
I'd like therefore to thank the Logos Team for all their hard work - at the same time anything to speed up response times would greatly appreciated.
Andrew
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I reformatted my desktop system yesterday and reinstalled. I was having horrible speed issues. I could not find what was wrong but I decided to bite the bullet and get it on there all alone. That fell through when my wife needed Word and Publisher last night so I installed Office first. While she was using them, I set Logos4 to downlaod and index. Woke up this morning and guess what. All by itself with office it was ...
... wait for it ...
.. pretty smooth. But still not like it should be. However, it is not much more usable on that system.
I have now four PCs with Logos 4. Two of them had the Beta on it and they were very slow. Two did not and they are still slow but not as bad. So I am wondering if there is some way that some residual code from the beta was not getting updated that slowed things down more for me.
Just speculation. Glad it is running faster now. When I have time to get more of my software on there we will see if it stays that way.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
Just speculation. Glad it is running faster now. When I have time to get more of my software on there we will see if it stays that way.
Interesting Kevin. I'd be personally interested to know if any software 'injures' the performance of L4. That could be a big help for those seeing performance issues with L4.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Rick,
I have a Gateway laptop that is 2.0 Dual Core with 2GB of memory. After I upgraded to Logos 4 I was not happy with performance either. It is slower at office where network and Internet access is slower but at home it is faster when booting up and making that Internet conncetion. It has been four days now since upgrade and ecerything is faster now than after initial upgrade. I am not sure if the software is using cache in any special way that has enabled it to speed up but it has for me.
This isn't much help to your situation but just wanted to add info about my experience.
Thanks Mick
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I hate to pile on as I harped on this issue in the beta program, but I, too, am discouraged by the very slow performance of Logos 4. What is strange to me is that it seems that things got better, in fact pretty acceptable for awhile, and now they are slow again. I don't know if one of the Service Releases bogged things down. I can't trace back to when I started seeing real slowness again, but I know SR-6 is slow and I'm pretty sure SR-1 was not as slow. Maybe I can't remember so well.
I see slowness it in everything Logos does. Right click times are slow, clicking on a tab until it opens the resource is slow, sympathetic highlighting is slow, rendering of search results is slow. Opening a resource in a floating window is slow. Trying to use the Passage Guide from the Home Page is absolutely glacial. All the guides are terrible slow, even when I trim them down.
I really like a lot about L4, but I feel I have gone back to a 386SX machine experience. I'd like to know how some people are getting the quick responsiveness I see in some of the on-line videos. If I only have L4 open and close most of the other programs operating in the background, I am still too slow to be useful.
As I said, L4 seemed more responsive only 10-15 days ago. Not fast, but better than this which is pretty much frustrating. My specs are listed below. It is not ancient hardware.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I would be interested to know if there is something specific being "shook out" as I don't know anything about how software develops...
I just installed V4 on my new Win 7 machine and it's pretty stinkin' fast. Faster than my XP machine with the SSD drive.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Mark A. Smith said:
What is strange to me is that it seems that things got better, in fact pretty acceptable for awhile, and now they are slow again.
One of our techs has seen good results after deleting files in a very full user temp folder (%temp%) on a caller's computer. It's always a good idea to clear out temp files every once in a while in any case.
Melissa
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Melissa Snyder said:
One of our techs has seen good results after deleting files in a very full user temp folder (%temp%) on a caller's computer. It's always a good idea to clear out temp files every once in a while in any case.
I use a freeware program called CCleaner for that (and cleaning out other stuff).Using this (or a similar) program, means you wont have to follow TIP#2 below.
TIP #1: You'll need to exit Logos4, and other programs to do a thorough cleaning.
TIP #2: If you do this manually, sort your directory by date and only select those older than one day, you may be able to do it without getting interrupted by the message that states the the file is currently in use and can't be deleted (stopping the process altogether).
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Melissa, thanks for the tip about cleaning up the user temp folder--mine had nearly 2 GBs in it, so it was definitely time to clean it out. I was skeptical that it would help much since my other programs do not seem to be plagued by the same speed issue as Logos 4, and indeed it did not help Logos 4 to a noticeable degree. I'm happy to try some other things if it will help, but I'm still concerned that there is something within the program itself that is causing issues. I've only got about another week on my 30 day return window, and would love to keep the program, but it's just unacceptably slow for me to really use all the time.
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Rick Goettsche said:
I've only got about another week on my 30 day return window, and would love to keep the program, but it's just unacceptably slow for me to really use all the time.
I notice drastic performance hits when I have the Bible explorer or information window open.
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Melissa Snyder said:
One of our techs has seen good results after deleting files in a very full user temp folder (%temp%) on a caller's computer.
I appreciate the tip. I did do this. I also downloaded the program Rich pointed out and ran that. Still not much improvement.
When I right click on an NASB word and want to look at the lemma, it takes 10-12 seconds or so to finish opening the right click menu with all the options. If that is an improvement it is negligible. I would think 2-3 seconds would be average and speedy would be 1-2 seconds. Logos 3 doesn't open as much on a right click but it is almost instantaneous.
I would love to know what would make Logos 4 acceptably speedy on my machine at this point.
I am afraid the architecture of 4.0: operating system on top of another operating system is the problem.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I'll try the temp folder thing. I don, too, do not want to pile on, but I have installed L4 on a Win7 laptop (older hardware 1.6GHz Dual-Core not Core 2 Duo), 2 GB RAM, integrated video, 250GB 7200PM hard drive- this is a new drive bought specifically for installing Win7. It is definitely faster (if the term can be used) than on my desktop running XP, 2.4 GHz P4 w/HT, 2GB RAM, nVidia video card (64MB-yes, small), 160GB HD.
But, I upgraded to Win7 from Vista. Win7 is faster for L4 and everything else. Now, speed, Office 2007, is FAST on Win 7- Word opens and is ready in less than 2 seconds! And, in comparison to Word, L4 is slow, very slow. One of the slowest loading programs I use is Adobe InDesign CS4, it takes about 30 seconds to load. But, once it is loaded, it is very responsive. So, I don't call it slow. L4 is slow in many ways. One thing that is fast in L4 is searching for one term like marriage. The results are returned very quickly. But, most other things are slow.
I hope this can be addressed with upcoming SR's. I can still use the program. I like the concept and am finding many goodies I didn't realize were there-the MP videos help understandign the paradigm.
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The only really fast thing is searching now; the program does move sluggishly or with a one or two second lag for me. If I hadn't watched the videos, I probably wouldn't think it was slow. Just having all the resources I do and being able to search on them makes me happy. I can live with a little slow.
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Joan Korte said:
I can live with a little slow.
Yes, and I could, too. It just has to get faster so it will be 'a little slow.'
I think many of us are trying to be patient and want Logos 4 to succeed. I hope the patience pays off. I do undertsand those who might simply want to throw in the towel, esp. if they have money that they can get back.
I am sure others are having much better results than I am, so again, I don't want to seem like a squeaky wheel.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I was a away most of the day so I am just now getting back to my home PC where I reformatted the drive and reinstalled Logos4. With only MS Office 2010 it was much faster than it was before the reformat. I was afraid that adding my software back might kill this new found euphoria. But having installed a few things it is still moving along nicely. There is a noticable improvement in L4. Still a slight lag, but very manageable. I have installed so far besides MSO2010 the following:
- Drivers for hardware (Epson artisan 800, Logitech, nVidia)
- Firefox and my favorite add-ons
- WinRAR archiver
- Bibleworks 8 and all updates
- Live Mesh for syncing
- iTunes 9 & Quicktime
- Lastpass for password sync
- Xmarks for bookmark sync
- Windows Live Essentials - writer, mail. photo gallery, movie make
Getting ready to put back Photoshop and WordSearch and Premiere Elements. But so far so good. Might be the temp folder thing as I have not had time to muck it up much.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Mark A. Smith said:
I am sure others are having much better results than I am, so again, I don't want to seem like a squeaky wheel.
just don't run out of oil!
The main issue I see for your installation is the word "Vista" -- I have 2 GB less RAM and run L4 for days on end (just putting it to sleep at nights) and with plenty of my normal apps: Explorer, Firefox with 8 tabs, MS Word, Outlook Express, IrfanView, Beyond Compare. It is "acceptable" when opening and closing tabs of resources or guides, but I use 14 tabs which is much more than I had with L3. But I am running offline at the moment.
Under Windows 7 RC 64-bit on the same computer L4 is more responsive, but no faster when running searches. I might install to my Vista 32-bit (same computer!) to check it out.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave:
My older P4 does not run it at any speed that is really usable. It must be asked to do ONE thing at a time
I can run it fairly well on a dual core laptop if I stick to ONE resource at a time with NO "follow" windows ie. "Cited" "Information" "Bible Explorer" etc
(It means I have to trust the right arrow key and + sign to get the resources correct).
That way I can at least get the mouse wheel to scroll the page - and sometimes even the scroll bar. (for me, there is definitely something VERY wrong with the scroll bar "lag.")
(Because of the lag issue) I mainly use it to compare various BIbles and to check out commentaries or other resources with similar material - I'm not doing multi-searches or syntax-morphs etc. I would like to be able to use some of the new "follow" tools, but it is just too frustrating.
It scares and makes me slightly sad to hear "Quad" core people speaking of "slowness." - I try not to expect too much.
But it looks very nice!
Steve
(At first when "optimization' was mentioned I thought that meant before the release from beta. Maybe it means after all the bells and whistles are added? (Sermon File, PBB etc?)
Regards, SteveF
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Stephen Filyer said:
(At first when "optimization' was mentioned I thought that meant before the release from beta. Maybe it means after all the bells and whistles are added? (Sermon File, PBB etc?)
I think that will be ongoing with no single big effort next year! The developers ran out of time before the release.
Tools with "Follow" options are also a drag, so I use them sparingly with the "None" option.
The Quad core "slowness" is a bit of mystery - maybe the "older" Core 2 Quads. The new Core i5 and Core i7 should be ideal together with Windows 7. But the cheaper Athlon X4 Quad cores are OK.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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QUOTE: maybe the "older" Core 2 Quads. The new Core i5 and Core i7 should be ideal together with Windows 7. But the cheaper Athlon X4 Quad cores are
OK.Thanks, David, this is helpful.
I had just been looking into one of the "older" Quads.
I'll keep on thinking, searching tweaking...
Steve
Regards, SteveF
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Dave Hooton said:
The main issue I see for your installation is the word "Vista"
I am seriously thinking about starting over on this machine and installing W7 64 bit. Just a lot of work. I just bought a second 7200 RPM drive to be my primary and do the change-over (I have a Dell two drive laptop. One of the drives (D:) is already 7200 RPM but when I installed the beta it went onto the 5400 RPM drive and I haven't wanted to mess with transferring it). I would expect a faster drive plus W7 should speed things up some. (The things I'll do for my favorite Bible software!)
I am going to try to run a very simple layout and check the timings, too. Mine is laden with open resources, but that's how I want to use it (I did the same in L3). Maybe fewer resources open will speed things up. I think I could adjust to that. It's too slow right now.
I just installed on the desktop computer at the church office. It is running XPSR3. Can't recall the other specs. I'll try timing some things there, too. I actually haven't used it there yet.
Thanks for the advise and sharing your experience.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark A. Smith said:
I am seriously thinking about starting over on this machine and installing W7 64 bit.
It was worth it in my case, but as they say YMMV
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
It was worth it in my case, but as they say YMMV
Thanks, Kevin. I've started to write down the steps I need to take. UGGH.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark A. Smith said:Kevin A. Purcell said:
It was worth it in my case, but as they say YMMV
Thanks, Kevin. I've started to write down the steps I need to take. UGGH.
I play with a lot of software on my main desktop so I reformat it about once every other month. One of the ways to make it really easy is find an automatic syncing program that will put all your personal documents on another computer or online so that you don't have to do that. I have Live Mesh set up to sync my computer with all my others and the online storage. I also have it to sync my old Logos folder and my BibleWorks notes folder. I use xmarks to syncy my firefox bookmarks and lastpass to sync my passwords. the only thing I back up is my pictures and music (I have too many of those to make live mesh useful). I then get all the sofware in my downloads and anything I've left on the desktop.
Next step is to deauthorize software that requires this. itunes, photoshop are the only two i have presently.
Finally make sure you have your chipset drivers (if yo need them) graphics driver, and if you need drivers for whatever you use to get online (network card or wifi). The rest I just download once I get windows installed and those three drivers installed.
I just reboot and reinstall windows using the method that deletes the partition and starts over.
Reinstall in this order usually ..
1. Chipset,
2. graphcis
3. network
Then make sure all your other hardware is running and finally download all updates for the Internet using windows update. After that if you don't want to have to go through this process get an image of your drive using something like True Image.
Finally copy back all your backed up documents and settings and install software.
I put Logos 4 on first (after MS Office). And it is working great now. Only a little lag.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Holy smokes you're worse than me Kevin. I'm down to only an annual format. Though I must confess it really needs it by that time.Kevin A. Purcell said:I play with a lot of software on my main desktop so I reformat it about once every other month.
IMHO I think you'd do better making a disk image right after your drivers are installed. Of course the downside is that you may need to update a driver afterwards.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I thought that I was the only one who did a re-format more than once every decade. I am at about 3-4 times for this year already. Monthly? Wow? My hat is off to you!! (Is there a support group for people like us?) [:|]
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